Make or Break

[mickqld]

Nothing is going to change while we have 35% of our salary cap wrapped up in an over rated over payed rocks and diamonds halfback, a Ferrari fullback who sits on the sidelines for 35% of the season and a $900K lock whose best attribute is 40 tackles a game all wrapped up on a coach whose methods are a decade too late. Add in a pathways system that isn't producing anything but poor results and it's obvious why we'll never compete with the top clubs until massive changes occur.

 

[Rocky]

Manly is somewhere between the 3rd and 7th best team in this years competition. Right now we are closer to 7th, but if things click and we have a full strength team, we can push for a higher finish.

We have zero chance of beating the top two teams.

Once you accept that then it makes things a lot easier.

 

[jbb/james]

We all know that Barrett set that system up at Penrith and now Cleary is cashing in upon his return

In my opinion we got further than we probably deserved to last year purely on the back of a stand out season by Tommy. Nothing else changed - our defence wasn't any better, our attack wasn't any more clinical and organised, our speed, intensity, and desire weren't any more focused. Tommy played out of his skin in a season where the rule changes and speed of the game suited his prodigious skill set, dragged everyone else along for the ride. Every single pundit in the NRL was lauding Turbo's season as one of the most dominant ever on record, if not THE most dominant. Is that going to happen again this season ??

We can beat up on teams below us and around our level, but have struggled to find that next gear to go with the serious premiership sides.I have no expectation that the situation will change this year, in fact I think we will struggle more now they have slowed the game again and Tommy will lose some of his impact. I said a few seasons ago I don't think we will win the comp while we are paying DCE $1.2mil a season - it affects the team composition too much and we can't field a balanced enough side to make up for his obvious shortcomings as a playmaker/leader. We've lacked leadership, composure and belief for a while now, since Killer, et al left essentially. The culture of the place has changed in my opinion.

We've got some good young talent, but unfortunately I don't personally see us winning a premiership with our current halves pairing. Not knocking their effort, that's always there, but effort alone doesn't win you titles. They just aren't dynamic and clinical enough to drive a side all the way to the top. I hope I'm wrong, but I reckon we are 2 or 3 players short of being a genuine premiership side and at least one of those players is 6 and/or 7. That's why I just don't understand us extending DCE's contract, he's not the answer.

On a positive note the Bunnies were pretty bloody ordinary against Tigers last night. A rookie half and Cody Walker his usual flakey self saw them flustered out of the game. I think they have a few forward injuries too. If they play like that again we've got a punchers chance.

you probably know i agree

DCE can set an attacking tone to the team, but beyond that he is tone deaf.very one dimensial despite some listing his tackle count weekly.

until we recruit a mongrel that puts him in his place, gives him some mental consequence we dont contend . funnily i saw that in hastings, cheeky enough to tell the ol dog he isnt up to scratch .cheeky yes, truthful, also yes but that isnt the model i suggest but ........

currently the team is wrapped around his limited mental gameday fortitude, and that is not top 4 material despite his obvious skills and resilience. so getting him to commit seems bat **** crazy . i wonder is des is haunted by not being able to get a 7 at the dogs, arguably the missing piece in that chapter

 

[court83]

If we’re going to beat the bunnies, who are there to be beaten, our backline needs to step up..
I said last year when Tom missed the first month, it’s a worrying sign that our centres and wingers can’t score try’s unless it’s Tom setting them up on a platter…

How we going this year? Tom was contained well then got injured so hasn’t been there to do all the work.. Saab hasn’t scored, parker hasn’t scored (I don’t think) Harper has 1, Garrick has 2 or 3 tops…

If we are going to beat the good sides, these guys need to earn their money and score try’s on their own merit, not just wait for Tom to do everything and set them up with gift try’s all game

 

[mave]

Ok. Our wingers need to step up and score more tries.

Can someone let Des know how simple it is.

 

[mickqld]

If we’re going to beat the bunnies, who are there to be beaten, our backline needs to step up..
I said last year when Tom missed the first month, it’s a worrying sign that our centres and wingers can’t score try’s unless it’s Tom setting them up on a platter…

How we going this year? Tom was contained well then got injured so hasn’t been there to do all the work.. Saab hasn’t scored, parker hasn’t scored (I don’t think) Harper has 1, Garrick has 2 or 3 tops…

If we are going to beat the good sides, these guys need to earn their money and score try’s on their own merit, not just wait for Tom to do everything and set them up with gift try’s all game

Our backs scoring tries starts with our forwards winning the middle, dominating territory and putting the opposition defense on the retreat. Do that then with quick play the balls the halves have time and space with the ball to create gaps and cause hesitant indecisive defensive lines. Without Aloiai, Taupau, Paseka, Keppie we have no fire-power to do that. Souffs forwards and those of the top 6 teams will roll right over us.

 

[court83]

Our backs scoring tries starts with our forwards winning the middle, dominating territory and putting the opposition defense on the retreat. Do that then with quick play the balls the halves have time and space with the ball to create gaps and cause hesitant indecisive defensive lines. Without Aloiai, Taupau, Paseka, Keppie we have no fire-power to do that. Souffs forwards and those of the top 6 teams will roll right over us.

I get that… and I agree there.. but we’ve also had a few games where we have scored 20-30 pts with our forwards rolling on nicely and the backs just haven’t contributed.. except Garrick, who scored a couple in those games..
It’s been a problem we’ve had for a few years..
look at teams like the panthers and storm, when their fullbacks are out, the wingers and centres are still scoring 3-4 tries a game..
With manly, Tom didn’t play and Manlys entire backline can go months without getting a single try

 

[alafua8]

This feels a bit like a commentary on Des so I'll throw in my two cents here.

Ivan Cleary was turfed out by Penrith at the end of 2015 with a career win ratio of less than 50%. Three years later he returned and now they are winning 75% of their matches.

So... were Penrith right to sack him the first time? Was he actually a better coach when he returned? Or is neither true and the stars simply aligned upon his return?

I'm not really a fan of the idea of getting rid of the coach while we are still doing, on the balance of things, a passable job. There are not any demonstrably better options available and as 2018 proved, you need to be careful with the candidate you select.

Cleary was sacked because they blamed the coach for the results but when he came back ,he had a new young roster and the results are there for all to see .We just need a good clean out of the old and slow players for us to move to where Penrith and Melbourne are . We are still in it this year but selections will be crucial for us to make the big dance .Lets go Manly .

 

[The Who]

When you get 5mins Mark, go and have a look at the Panthers recent history from all grades of footy for the past decade.

They have been dominating for a long time. It’s just only starting to filter into the NRL.

They’ve lost 4 regular season games in over 2 years.
Haven’t lost at home in 20+ Consecutive matches.
Undefeated in 2022.

I think they’ve proven that it doesn’t matter if they get picked apart, cause it’s their depth across all the other grades that makes them so strong.

Last year they lost Burton, Naden TPJ (even though he was there just temp), Capewell, Momorovski, and May.
That’s arguably 6 players out of their top 17 —- but how do they respond?…. Undefeated after 7 games in 2022.

They will continue to churn out good players. Their grades are stacked.
Look at Tago, May - you wouldn’t even know their NSW winger is missing these kids are doing so well.

The 'Riff began their climb to the top once they offloaded Blacktown to us.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

When you get 5mins Mark, go and have a look at the Panthers recent history from all grades of footy for the past decade.

They have been dominating for a long time. It’s just only starting to filter into the NRL.

They’ve lost 4 regular season games in over 2 years.
Haven’t lost at home in 20+ Consecutive matches.
Undefeated in 2022.

I think they’ve proven that it doesn’t matter if they get picked apart, cause it’s their depth across all the other grades that makes them so strong.

Last year they lost Burton, Naden TPJ (even though he was there just temp), Capewell, Momorovski, and May.
That’s arguably 6 players out of their top 17 —- but how do they respond?…. Undefeated after 7 games in 2022.

They will continue to churn out good players. Their grades are stacked.
Look at Tago, May - you wouldn’t even know their NSW winger is missing these kids are doing so well.

So we are due a decade of their smartarse antics ( in particular their fans who are now becoming super smartarses ), gee that’s something to look forward to!!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Let’s face it , we are a 5-8 team , might occasionally go one higher.

We are never going to beat the top sides , especially in finals games.

It’s a combination of a few factors.

1) Des being Des, we all know the issues
2) DCE is a great halfback , when things go his way , when they don’t he struggles.
3) Our superstar fullback spends as much time on the sideline as he does playing , compare that to Sonic , Dylan what’s his name at Panfers , or Teddy at the Roosters.
4) Salary cap restrictions mean we are paying a ****load for 3 players , and it shows in the balance of the rest of the team.
5) The BWSE pathways haven’t yet worked , yet I say it still might.

Compare us say to the top 2

Drizzle

The Bellyache plan , 2 or 3 superstars then train the rest to do a job and do that job perfectly. It’s worked for 20 years so it’s not just how good their couple of players might be.

Panfers

Develop from within , across all levels , and build the side around a superstar half back with young , enthusiastic players who are trained to work as a team.

Our side looks nothing like the top 2 and our systems are nothing like the top 2.

So we need to face facts , we are 5-8, maybe 1 higher , and nothing will change until we change.

 

[mickqld]

I get that… and I agree there.. but we’ve also had a few games where we have scored 20-30 pts with our forwards rolling on nicely and the backs just haven’t contributed.. except Garrick, who scored a couple in those games..
It’s been a problem we’ve had for a few years..
look at teams like the panthers and storm, when their fullbacks are out, the wingers and centres are still scoring 3-4 tries a game..
With manly, Tom didn’t play and Manlys entire backline can go months without getting a single try

That's also true and the fact is we have pedestrian centers. Parker and Harper will never be a premiership combination. Saab isn't up to it either without Turbo putting him in space. Yes he's fast but in defense and hit ups he is below average. Garrick is a first grader. Koula will be if Des has a moment of sanity and picks him. I would actually go back to Taufua at the moment. At least he gets hit up meters and makes opposition attackers wary of his hits.

 

[mickqld]

So we are due a decade of their smartarse antics ( in particular their fans who are now becoming super smartarses ), gee that’s something to look forward to!!

Well as a comment I saw from a Raiders fan about their smart arse actions. If the shoe was on the other foot the Raiders fans would be smoking crack pipes and doing burnouts.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

They are sooooo cocky. It’s hard to watch isn’t it.

But if you look into the culture they’ve built you’ll get an understanding of why. They are winners and are used to it.

The culture is coming from the players , the fans weren’t like this years ago.

I know as my son in law Mick ( Rest In Peace mate ) and I went to a few Manly / Panthers games together and even when they won they were humble doing it !!

Now they’re just smartarse’s

 

[mickqld]

Panfers

Develop from within , across all levels , and build the side around a superstar half back with young , enthusiastic players who are trained to work as a team.

Our side looks nothing like the top 2 and our systems are nothing like the top 2.

So we need to face facts , we are 5-8, maybe 1 higher , and nothing will change until we change

This ^^
The panfers system works because their Juniors are invested in the whole club. How the fuk Manly's management managed to fuk up the golden opportunity to dominate and pull in all the Juniors from Norths, Central Coast and MW is beyond me. Our pathways should've been through this massive combined area. Not Blacktown which has been an abyssmal failure.

 

[court83]

That's also true and the fact is we have pedestrian centers. Parker and Harper will never be a premiership combination. Saab isn't up to it either without Turbo putting him in space. Yes he's fast but in defense and hit ups he is below average. Garrick is a first grader. Koula will be if Des has a moment of sanity and picks him. I would actually go back to Taufua at the moment. At least he gets hit up meters and makes opposition attackers wary of his hits.

I 100% agree.. I think we won’t be a true threat until we replace both centres..
I don’t mind Saab, I could handle his lack of meters and not doing the tough stuff if he was more of an aerial target on attack… look at someone like vunivalu, was good for atleast 1 try a game, usually 2 by out leaping his opponent and scoring try’s.. dce has put plenty up for him and so far hasn’t come down with a single 1 this season… that isn’t good enough.

Parker tries hard but there’s a fair gap between someone like Parker and say, a Justin olam or a kotoni staggs… I feel we need atleast 1 strike centre like those guys to be a true threat

 

[Ryan]

Manly is somewhere between the 3rd and 7th best team in this years competition. Right now we are closer to 7th, but if things click and we have a full strength team, we can push for a higher finish.

We have zero chance of beating the top two teams.

Once you accept that then it makes things a lot easier.

I reckon 10th - 13th

 

[jbb/james]

The culture is coming from the players , the fans weren’t like this years ago.

I know as my son in law Mick ( Rest In Peace mate ) and I went to a few Manly / Panthers games together and even when they won they were humble doing it !!

Now they’re just smartarse’s

i think the riff have finally embraced the inner bogan, club, players and fans from the black outfits to acdc to taking the piss. they are owning it

 

[The Who]

I went to my first match at Rat Park on Saturday. It was the local clash between Warringah and Manly and attracted a well-behaved, and lubricated, crowd of 6,000+ (my estimate). I spotted Tooves in a Rats polo and was told he works with the First Grade team. I have a couple observations to make about rugby on the Northern Beaches that could influence the Manly Sea Eagles:
1. Rat Park has all the space and natural features to be turned into a Bank West, which should become the home ground of both the Warringah Rats and the Sea Eagles.
2. There is a lot of talent playing rugby on the Northern Beaches. I hope the Sea Eagles talent scouts are watching, and not just attending RL matches in western Sydney.

 

[robbiea]

Get Turbo back ,we all good.