keep politics out of the game

[Seagles68]

And you know I am no fan of the church.

I'm atheist @Woodsie but I have to disagree with you on this one. I spent many a sweaty night in pubs in the 80's watching Steve Kilbey and boys.

 

[manly al]

Of course.
To go back to the original, which is not what this has become, but to clarify my perspective for you:
1. The club completely stuffed it up.
2. I was extremely hurt by all the anti gay stuff that spewed forth on this site as a result. Some of it was subtle, but as someone who has suffered rejection at family, work, and societal levels, I know full well all of the guises it takes.
3. I have a great many problems with organised religion. Apart from some absolute gems, like the Sisters of Mercy, who relentlessly cared for gay boys during the AIDS crisis in the eighties when no one else wanted to be anywhere near them, much organised religion does more harm than good.
Pedophiles everywhere. Missionaries ruining previously happy societies (check your history Rainbow Seven). Wars! How many bloody wars? Guilt and righteousness where they shouldn't be. A majority exclusion of women in positions of power. And on it goes.

I won't go on.

Yes, in a perfect world, everyone should be able to speak and believe as they wish. In the Western World we pretty much have that. But even that is warping with narrowcasting media and the internet.
The Right Wing Nutjobs in America have such a silo of speech and belief that they're storming the Capitol and trying to kill the Speaker of the House.
Absolutely there has been revolutions throughout history but these were people who had to spread ideas without media and meet in secret and organise and risk. Now they're people who get up, scratch their balls, sit in front of the computer, and egg each other on. All speech and belief and dangerous.
The Christchurch Mosque shooter was fuelled by online groups where people spoke openly of their beliefs that Muslims were despicable.
Pedophiles have groups ... well you know what I'm saying.

I'm great with respectful, informed debate. I agree people should not act against their beliefs but I do think that in better circumstances than our club allowed, those beliefs should be talked through and a middle ground found where no one is hurt.

I've understood your point from the start Woodsie. I just think you're in with the wrong crowd 😉🥴😊

Always present well reasoned and interesting outlook but wouldn 't take too much or some things to heart on here. None of us has to agree on the or all of the diversity of views on here [ especially on non footy subjects ] but providing the discourse is within some acceptable boundaries , would think better to just engage when some topics may be of some particular interest , Other times to just accept [ or not ] and ponder other views and again also maybe better to let some things go and not to be taken on a real serious level . . Never to condone extremist outlook but really would not associate some : Wrong crowd analogy with the current array of posters on here . Well not in my maybe sometimes limited observation anyway

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

... but my only posture in this entire issue has been with people advocating to force other people to act against their beliefs ...

You've always been very clear and consistent about that, Woodsie, and I thank you for it.

I, on the other hand, have no issue with encouraging and/or forcing people to act against their beliefs if those beliefs are harmful and/or discriminatory to others. I just don't think that all beliefs are equal or worthy of protection. And I can't get my head around the idea that we should be using anti-discrimination laws to defend a person's right to discriminate against others. It makes no sense to me.

But one thing this thread (and all the other threads that have quickly devolved along similar lines) has proved is that nobody is changing anyone else's mind any time soon. Also, people have way too much time on their hands in the off-season…

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a united, winning football team to distract us from all this stuff in 2023?

 

[manly al]

Interesting that the city of Townsville is named after one of the most infamous Australian slave traders. Even has a statue. Shameful really.

Never even knew that it existed until it got some attention this year . Apparently also some or a couple of good things associated with his presence in the north but not to excuse his Pacific island activities . But a statue in his honor with the full range of historical background clearly evident . Not a good look ,

 

[Budgie]

All that you say is valid .. but can you tell me one country in the world where the ruling regime completely controls the media, and freedom of speech doesn't exist ... that has anything other than a deplorable human rights record.

Not sure how we got to the 'ruling regime', but ok.

By the ruling regime do you mean governments? Because I would argue that Western governments are very much controlled by corporate interests and the media (read Murdoch).
So, to me, it's actually the other way around from what you suggest. Why do you think every Prime Minister and potential PM runs to meet with Murdoch (I think Rudd may have been the exception)?

And as for freedom of speech, we can all say whatever we bloody well like, but it's the capacity to be heard that makes the difference. Do we have a platform or not? If not, who does? How are they influencing others? Why are they given the opportunity and not others?
Sure, freedom of ideas, freedom of speech for all. But it's the platform that matters.

 

[Budgie]

I'm atheist @Woodsie but I have to disagree with you on this one. I spent many a sweaty night in pubs in the 80's watching Steve Kilbey and boys.

But surely they were unguarded moments?

 

[Seagles68]

Not sure how we got to the 'ruling regime', but ok.

By the ruling regime do you mean governments? Because I would argue that Western governments are very much controlled by corporate interests and the media (read Murdoch).
So, to me, it's actually the other way around from what you suggest. Why do you think every Prime Minister and potential PM runs to meet with Murdoch (I think Rudd may have been the exception)?

And as for freedom of speech, we can all say whatever we bloody well like, but it's the capacity to be heard that makes the difference. Do we have a platform or not? If not, who does? How are they influencing others? Why are they given the opportunity and not others?
Sure, freedom of ideas, freedom of speech for all. But it's the platform that matters.

Hey @Budgie - I can't remember for sure if Rudd met directly with Murdoch but he was certainly out at that strip club in NYC with Col Allen - a Murdoch hack. That's enough association for me.

 

[Red Pill]

Extremely depressing.
I never thought this site would be taken over by the RWNJs as it has.
I guess they’re everywhere these days.
Apart from Woodsie, who disappoints me in this but has merit discussing footy stuff and is kinda funny, the others are rarely to be seen in actual footy discussions.
One of them writes the kind of stuff that I saw regularly as a teacher when kids submitted essays full of words, lots of words, with not a jot of original thought amongst it all.
The others are just negative nellies who pick their targets and can’t wait to swoop in with angry name calling.
I feel it’s the whole Murdoch/Fox news/2GB influence on society but it depresses the hell out of me.
I guess we all pretty much mix in our own circles in real life so I rarely see the homophobia and misogyny and racism I’ve read on here in recent times. I don’t know why these people are so foaming and frothing with bile, but they are.
There are a great many good and lovely people on this site, including yourself SER8, I just hope we don’t gradually get overwhelmed by the haters.

Interesting take @Budgie it appears you have some preconceived ideas or projections on how people think because they espouse what you believe is representative of right wing views. e.g. they listened to too much Alan Jones etc. Just because you used to be an ex school teacher I could also dismiss what you say and categorise your views as a result of leftie conditioning… the fact is in my view there is a very limited amount of people out there that are actually really hard core right wing or hard core left wing, it is just amplified by a noisy few on social media and further conflated by the us vs them paradigm on the media who profit immensely from winding people up. It’s just not 2GB well the old 2GB it’s both left leaning and right leaning media..
For the record my interest here has purely being driven by what I see is the blind intolerance of perceived intolerance and the obvious hypocrisy that goes with it and the belief that’s it’s ok to compel people to do something that is against there beliefs is somehow for the greater good. I.e. the holy 7.
Btw now I know there is a school teacher assessing my posts I will try to be more succinct and use better grammar 🙂 please forgive me sir.

 

[Seagles68]

But surely they were unguarded moments?

and sometimes an outdoor gig under the milkyway.

 

[Seagles68]

Interesting take @Budgie it appears you have some preconceived ideas or projections on how people think because they espouse what you believe is representative of right wing views. e.g. they listened to too much Alan Jones etc. Just because you used to be an ex school teacher I could also dismiss what you say and categorise your views as a result of leftie conditioning… the fact is in my view there is a very limited amount of people out there that are actually really hard core right wing or hard core left wing, it is just amplified by a noisy few on social media and further conflated by the us vs them paradigm on the media who profit immensely from winding people up. It’s just not 2GB well the old 2GB it’s both left leaning and right leaning media..
For the record my interest here has purely being driven by what I see is the blind intolerance of perceived intolerance and the obvious hypocrisy that goes with it and the belief that’s it’s ok to compel people to do something that is against there beliefs is somehow for the greater good. I.e. the holy 7.
Btw now I know there is a school teacher assessing my posts I will try to be more succinct and use better grammar 🙂 please forgive me sir.

should there be a comma after "assessing my posts"?

 

[lsz]

The loony lefts latest craze is telling people they need to get on their meds when they don’t agree with what you say, it’s all they’ve been saying about a particular famous person recently too.

People could take a leaf out of your book RP. You should be commended on how you have moved on and forgiven with past wrongdoings involved in your life.
You look at things with a positive outlook and don’t hold grudges, grudges aren’t healthy.

You could not be talking about Ye?

 

[Budgie]

Hey @Budgie - I can't remember for sure if Rudd met directly with Murdoch but he was certainly out at that strip club in NYC with Col Allen - a Murdoch hack. That's enough association for me.

Forgot about that!

 

[lsz]

Also a question for my friends on the other side

Do you hold up the view that free speech / views is absolute? As in no matter what the consequences of those views there should be a right to uphold them / speak them?

This is a genuine question not a baiting question as I am trying to understand

 

[Budgie]

You could not be talking about Ye?

He could

 

[Red Pill]

You could not be talking about Ye?

Why not?

 

[manly al]

Hey @Budgie - I can't remembWr for sure if Rudd met directly with Murdoch but he was certainly out at that strip club in NYC with Col Allen - a Murdoch hack. That's enough association for me.

Tony Blair flew all the way from the U K to the Whitsundays to meet Rupert . Talk about going to the opposite end of the globe to curry some favour

 

[Budgie]

Interesting take @Budgie it appears you have some preconceived ideas or projections on how people think because they espouse what you believe is representative of right wing views. e.g. they listened to too much Alan Jones etc. Just because you used to be an ex school teacher I could also dismiss what you say and categorise your views as a result of leftie conditioning… the fact is in my view there is a very limited amount of people out there that are actually really hard core right wing or hard core left wing, it is just amplified by a noisy few on social media and further conflated by the us vs them paradigm on the media who profit immensely from winding people up. It’s just not 2GB well the old 2GB it’s both left leaning and right leaning media..
For the record my interest here has purely being driven by what I see is the blind intolerance of perceived intolerance and the obvious hypocrisy that goes with it and the belief that’s it’s ok to compel people to do something that is against there beliefs is somehow for the greater good. I.e. the holy 7.
Btw now I know there is a school teacher assessing my posts I will try to be more succinct and use better grammar 🙂 please forgive me sir.

Not too sure what you're trying to say here.
I abhor the whole left and right thing, because it is almost completely misunderstood.
RWNJs are a thing, whether or not it is about political leanings.
I always hope for a society of kindness where the strong help the weak and people are treated as equals regardless of race, gender, sexuality, disability, geography, whatever.
Murdoch is a heinous influence on the world. He ruins lives.
Yep, I was a school teacher but also an owner of a company that produced goods for export, and, when I'd had enough of it all, had a dog walking business for 17 years in Centennial Park.
So if you feel inclined to judge, go with the dogwalker ... it was my happy place.

 

[Seagles68]

Tony Blair flew all the way from the U K to the Whitsundays to meet Rupert . Talk about going to the opposite end of the globe to curry some favour

You sure he wasn't just backpacking? Isn't that what all the Brits do?

And I have a sudden urge for Indian food for dinner.

 

[Red Pill]

Also a question for my friends on the other side

Do you hold up the view that free speech / views is absolute? As in no matter what the consequences of those views there should be a right to uphold them / speak them?

This is a genuine question not a baiting question as I am trying to understand

Yes as long as it remains within the law. Free speech should not imply actual action outside the law. Free speech should not be impeded by ideology ..if it remains within the law.
Btw what side are you on out of interest? Please describe your view on what each side is.?
Thanks

 

[HK_Eagle]

Yes as long as it remains within the law. Free speech should not imply actual action outside the law. Free speech should not be impeded by ideology ..if it remains within the law.
Btw what side are you on out of interest? Please describe your view on what each side is.?
Thanks

So, law is your guideline for what is acceptable and unacceptable in terms of free speech?