Just does my head in

[susan]

Harper
Funa
Walker
Suli
Tippytoes
Shuster
Foran
Marty
DCE
Jake
Aloia
JetSki
Fainu

Cust
Keppie
Paseka
Sipley

Lack of second rowers means no choice but having a middle on the edge and lack of mobility in the pack. Fainu is pretty mobile and can use the ball.Played 9 in trial in front of Birt for some unknown reason but has a nice pass on him and loads of skill.

In all likelihood wont win but will give us a look into the future. Time to start learning some things about the roster and getting Shuster to 5/8 and Walker to centre.

DCE has all the makings of a good nine. We have to have someone there with some talent to really threaten the ruck and take pressure off the halves. Good option to have a dummy half kicker off both feet as well. We need to get value out of this guy. If he plays eyes up footy at dummy half without the play making pressure he can cause real damage. Can’t just have him running around in circles just because he gets paid 1.3 mill. It hasn’t worked for a long time.

Might be ugly but to plan you need to see if these guys can play.We know the others can’t.
We aren’t making the eight but we can’t waste another season finding out nothing.If yiu mix and match that 17 plus Ola and Sirro, and find the right combination , add Tommy , I think you have a mid to lower table side and go from there. Davey next year plus two good recruits and top 8 is a possibility in 2022 , definitely 23.

 

[pjayz]

again this overlooks a simple fact that everyone wants to ignore - 10 contracts end at the end of this year. These contracts were signed for a pre 2020 game which is now significantly different to the game in 2019. We just can't walk away from those contracts without paying a very hefty price as in paying a significant part of their contract for another club to take them. It is so easy to sit on the sidelines and whinge about players not being up to it. It is very very true that most of the 10 off contract are simply not up to the new game which evolved pretty suddenly in 2020. In 2019 if everyone recalls we made the semis and were probably rorted in the semis against Souths. So we had the players for a pre 2020 game! It has now changed massively and our contracts have not enabled us as well as many other teams to change. Agreed there are many other issues - Des not picking the right players in the right positions and the poor effort of players and certainly Des not having a back up hooker. Now with the backup fullback I would love to go back and check which of the Silvertails on here absolutely sledged Brendan Elliott and yet are now slamming Des for not having a backup. Just some facts that can't be overlooked. I gather the Silvertailers who know everything just can't grasp this simple fact or just want to pretend it doesn't exist or it isn't real. This is not aimed at you @Manly76 - just restating facts that people ignore.

To be fair, I don’t think people slamming Elliot as no good and then being upset that Des didn’t recruit a fullback backfill is a problem. Elliot wasn’t up to it and just suffered an ACL. Not retaining him was the right play but not replacing him with a more appropriate player is an issue.

It is the same issue as having no hooker which is unacceptable. We were able to bring in players into the top thirty - they just didn’t prioritise the right positions other than front row (given AFB left).

I totally understand your point re the ten contracts coming to an end this year; however, we see players released early all the time - some two years in advance, let alone one. So those two key positions should have been addressed.

 

[Rocky]

Take a close look.


Parker,Boyle,Croker,Funa,Garrick,Davey,Gosiewski,Cust,Tuipulotu,Burbo,Saab,Foran,Harper,
Koula,Olakauatu,Keppie ,Paseka,Sipley,Taufua.

Three quarters of our team are on or near bargain basement prices.
Pay peanuts ,get monkeys.
How many of these monkeys would be playing first grade at any of the other clubs???
NONE !!!!!

Des apparently not in charge of recruitment and retention.

The person/people who signed Daly,Turbos,Tapau to their contracts is the root of all our evil.
Probably a Fulton/Penn combo..

Your last point is really important. We have around 4-4.5m in DCE, Taupau and the Turbos...and the current output on the field is probably less than a million bucks. So we effectively have 3m bucks in dead money. Thats just so ridiculous.

I understand that some think that the roosters etc sort the cap..and some of that may well be true. But one thing is clear.... the better teams manage their cap well and get the maximum output from their players in terms of their salaries.

 

[Frogz]

Your last point is really important. We have around 4-4.5m in DCE, Taupau and the Turbos...and the current output on the field is probably less than a million bucks. So we effectively have 3m bucks in dead money. Thats just so ridiculous.

I understand that some think that the roosters etc sort the cap..and some of that may well be true. But one thing is clear.... the better teams manage their cap well and get the maximum output from their players in terms of their salaries.

If every club had the full contract deals published, you don't think that the top 4 in any club would be on that money. Unfortunately we don't get the "third party deals" that others may get. If you believe that Tedseco, Mitchell and the like take pay cuts to stay on $800k you are crazy. Don't believe everything Slothfield writes. The salary cap system is broke. Some of our players are on less money than what Uncle Nick loses at golf.

 

[Rocky]

If every club had the full contract deals published, you don't think that the top 4 in any club would be on that money. Unfortunately we don't get the "third party deals" that others may get. If you believe that Tedseco, Mitchell and the like take pay cuts to stay on $800k you are crazy. Don't believe everything Slothfield writes. The salary cap system is broke. Some of our players are on less money than what Uncle Nick loses at golf.

I don't mind spending that money on the top 4 players...my point is that we are getting terrible output on the field from those dollars spent.

 

[manly al]

But didn 't the new rules come into effect just after the covid lock down in 2020 ,, Manly were still able to put together some competitive efforts with the new rules and until the injuries hit hard . At one stage from mid resumed season the club and with the injury toll , was flat out having a fit available squad to put on the paddock . No doubt by that stage , still some inability to adjust further and as much as some other clubs to the different tempo of the game . Defence went to pieces about the same time and just has not recovered since , apart from Jake and edges , probably the worst defended in the league. Took a calculated punt that budget type players like Jet Ski , Croker , Boyle ,Parker and so on would make the transition to the changed rules but regrettably just has not come off , Then combine the high unforced and error riddled play , some key players out and others off their game , some questionable coaching input , and should be no surprises that we are at the bottom of the table this year . A few changes and the return of Tom and a couple of others can not come quick enough and let's see what happens then .

 

[simon64]

There have been some good points made in this thread.

As well as a die hard Manly fan, I'm a Sydney FC member. For those of you who don't follow the A-League, even though Sydney are mid table this year, for the past 2 or 3 seasons they have been dominant to the point of it being daylight second.

I remember listening to Graham Arnold say, "every player in every position is looking over their shoulder because there is a quality player gunning for his spot". No one can afford to be complacent because they'll find themselves on the bench in a flash. When you look at Manly, we are in the exact opposite position. Des doesn't make changes and so the players feel no pressure.

Although Elliot was no world beater, at least he was a bona fide number 1. We have no 9 until Lawton recovers. Foran has been trying his guts out at 6 and to say DCE is out of form is an understatement to say the least.

As for the current squad, here is the list (according to the zero tackle website) of players whose contracts expire in 2021.

Boyle, Croker, Sione Fainu, Funa, Garrick, Jetski, Parker, Saddler, Sipley, Sironen, Taufua, Walker. Add Foz to that list as 2022 is only an option and not a contract.

Of those, I'd keep Fainu, Funa, Saddler and Sipley. And I wouldn't be spending much to do it either.

Our cap is horribly skewed stretching back to DCE's backflip inducing contract which was the first sign that the washing machine was starting to shake. Since then, the shake has turned into a death wobble.

 

[The better Robbo]

Harper
Funa
Walker
Suli
Tippytoes
Shuster
Foran
Marty
DCE
Jake
Aloia
JetSki
Fainu

Cust
Keppie
Paseka
Sipley

Lack of second rowers means no choice but having a middle on the edge and lack of mobility in the pack. Fainu is pretty mobile and can use the ball.Played 9 in trial in front of Birt for some unknown reason but has a nice pass on him and loads of skill.

In all likelihood wont win but will give us a look into the future. Time to start learning some things about the roster and getting Shuster to 5/8 and Walker to centre.

DCE has all the makings of a good nine. We have to have someone there with some talent to really threaten the ruck and take pressure off the halves. Good option to have a dummy half kicker off both feet as well. We need to get value out of this guy. If he plays eyes up footy at dummy half without the play making pressure he can cause real damage. Can’t just have him running around in circles just because he gets paid 1.3 mill. It hasn’t worked for a long time.

Might be ugly but to plan you need to see if these guys can play.We know the others can’t.
We aren’t making the eight but we can’t waste another season finding out nothing.

I like DCE to 9 aswell. If he doesn't like it then maybe it might force him to move on to another club. Win win really. Every time DCE goes to 9 he looks dangerous. It also allows Fuz and Schuster in the halves with Cust as utility. All of a sudden our spine looks good.

 

[ManlyTragic]

There have been some good points made in this thread.

As well as I die hard Manly fan, I'm a Sydney FC member as well. For those of you don't follow the A-League, even though Sydney are mid table this year, for the past 2 or 3 seasons they have been dominant to the point of it being daylight second.

I remember listening to Graham Arnold say, "every player in every position is looking over their shoulder because there is a quality player gunning for his spot". No one can afford to be complacent because they'll find themselves on the bench in a flash. When you look at Manly, we are in the exact opposite position. Des doesn't make changes and so the players feel no pressure.

Although Elliot was no world beater, at least he was a bona fide number 1.

As for the current squad, here is the list (according to the zero tackle website) of players whose contracts expire in 2021.

Boyle, Croker, Sione Fainu, Funa, Garrick, Jetski, Parker, Saddler, Sipley, Sironen, Taufua, Walker. Add Foz to that list as 2022 is only an option and not a contract.

Of those, I'd keep Fainu, Funa, Saddler and Sipley. And I wouldn't be spending much to do it either.

Our cap is horribly skewed stretching back to DCE's backflip inducing contract which was the first sign that the washing machine was starting to shake. Since then, the shake has turned into a death wobble.

Half the equation is the players coming off contract the other half is who do we recruit?

 

[simon64]

Half the equation is the players coming off contract the other half is who do we recruit?

For one, bring Nicho Hynes back if we can get him. He covers full back more than competently and can play in the halves as well.

If he's a fringe first grader in Melbourne, he's a walk up starter at Manly.

Another one I'd look at is Connor Watson. Again, versatile in terms of where he can play and wouldn't break the bank.

 

[manly al]

Harper
Funa
Walker
Suli
Tippytoes
Shuster
Foran
Marty
DCE
Jake
Aloia
JetSki
Fainu

Cust
Keppie
Paseka
Sipley

Lack of second rowers means no choice but having a middle on the edge and lack of mobility in the pack. Fainu is pretty mobile and can use the ball.Played 9 in trial in front of Birt for some unknown reason but has a nice pass on him and loads of skill.

In all likelihood wont win but will give us a look into the future. Time to start learning some things about the roster and getting Shuster to 5/8 and Walker to centre.

DCE has all the makings of a good nine. We have to have someone there with some talent to really threaten the ruck and take pressure off the halves. Good option to have a dummy half kicker off both feet as well. We need to get value out of this guy. If he plays eyes up footy at dummy half without the play making pressure he can cause real damage. Can’t just have him running around in circles just because he gets paid 1.3 mill. It hasn’t worked for a long time.

Might be ugly but to plan you need to see if these guys can play.We know the others can’t.
We aren’t making the eight but we can’t waste another season finding out nothing.

Think that it well overdue for Walker to return to centre and not too sure whether Harper or Funa should be at the back , maybe Harper , If Suli is unavailable then Tippettoes to the centres , then Saab or Funa on the wing . Suggested DCE as a 9 a couple of weeks ago but doubt that it would happen . Don "t think that there would be any gain in Alioia on the edge , Jet Ski is struggling , know that you would not be in agreement but would put Schuster and Parker in the 2 nd row until Oloakau -atu and Sirro return . Cust to starting 9 and Fainu on the bench as as back up 9 or loose forward

 

[susan]

There have been some good points made in this thread.

As well as I die hard Manly fan, I'm a Sydney FC member. For those of you who don't follow the A-League, even though Sydney are mid table this year, for the past 2 or 3 seasons they have been dominant to the point of it being daylight second.

I remember listening to Graham Arnold say, "every player in every position is looking over their shoulder because there is a quality player gunning for his spot". No one can afford to be complacent because they'll find themselves on the bench in a flash. When you look at Manly, we are in the exact opposite position. Des doesn't make changes and so the players feel no pressure.

Although Elliot was no world beater, at least he was a bona fide number 1. We have no 9 until Lawton recovers. Foran has been trying his guts out at 6 and to say DCE is out of form is an understatement to say the least.

As for the current squad, here is the list (according to the zero tackle website) of players whose contracts expire in 2021.

Boyle, Croker, Sione Fainu, Funa, Garrick, Jetski, Parker, Saddler, Sipley, Sironen, Taufua, Walker. Add Foz to that list as 2022 is only an option and not a contract.

Of those, I'd keep Fainu, Funa, Saddler and Sipley. And I wouldn't be spending much to do it either.

Our cap is horribly skewed stretching back to DCE's backflip inducing contract which was the first sign that the washing machine was starting to shake. Since then, the shake has turned into a death wobble.

100 per cent !

Only thing is I don’t want to consign Walker to the release list till he gets a proper run at centre for a decent stretch. Centres are thin on the ground right now as pretty sure Staggs is staying at Broncos , plus he’d break the bank.
if he goes ordinary or gets injured long term again yep he needs to go but if he gets back even close to his best he can win matches for you .

 

[susan]

Think that it well overdue for Walker to return to centre and not too sure whether Harper or Funa should be at the back , maybe Harper , If Suli is unavailable then Tippettoes to the centres , then Saab or Funa on the wing . Suggested DCE as a 9 a couple of weeks ago but doubt that it would happen . Don "t think that there would be any gain in Alioia on the edge , Jet Ski is struggling , know that you would not be in agreement but would put Schuster and Parker in the 2 nd row until Oloakau -atu and Sirro return . Cust to starting 9 and Fainu on the bench as as back up 9 or loose forward

Yep. All options should be on the table. We know nothing about these guys in our thirty really. Time to find out.

 

[robbiea]

Harper
Funa
Walker
Suli
Tippytoes
Shuster
Foran
Marty
DCE
Jake
Aloia
JetSki
Fainu

Cust
Keppie
Paseka
Sipley

Lack of second rowers means no choice but having a middle on the edge and lack of mobility in the pack. Fainu is pretty mobile and can use the ball.Played 9 in trial in front of Birt for some unknown reason but has a nice pass on him and loads of skill.

In all likelihood wont win but will give us a look into the future. Time to start learning some things about the roster and getting Shuster to 5/8 and Walker to centre.

DCE has all the makings of a good nine. We have to have someone there with some talent to really threaten the ruck and take pressure off the halves. Good option to have a dummy half kicker off both feet as well. We need to get value out of this guy. If he plays eyes up footy at dummy half without the play making pressure he can cause real damage. Can’t just have him running around in circles just because he gets paid 1.3 mill. It hasn’t worked for a long time.

Might be ugly but to plan you need to see if these guys can play.We know the others can’t.
We aren’t making the eight but we can’t waste another season finding out nothing.

That is probably the best side capable of being made from our lot at the moment.
I think those centres will still leak like sieves though,but what else could we do ?.
You shore up one sides defence by leaving Parker in ,but then lose any resemblance of attack down that side.
@susan Who captains that side ?

 

[susan]

That is probably the best side capable of being made from our lot at the moment.
I think those centres will still leak like sieves though,but what else could we do ?.
You shore up one sides defence by leaving Parker in ,but then lose any resemblance of attack down that side.
@susan Who captains that side ?

DCE. Think there is enough issues in the playing group without finding another. Not sure it makes a lot of difference to be honest. We are stuck with DCE - we just need to get his confidence back. I reckon he could really thrive. We have never had a 9 with a kicking game. It’s invaluable , especially off both feet.See Smith Hodgson Grant Mahoney Etc- all great kicking games.

To be honest what we need is simply to give guys a chance and see if they cut it. Can we do any worse. I don’t think it’s possible is it?

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

We have at least four 5/8s though??

Yeah 2 playing hooker and one playing 2nd row. It is lunacy as old mate put it. And now back up fb and hooker.. when we know our fb is injury prone and we have a hooker who might or might not goto jail

 

[robbiea]

DCE. Think there is enough issues in the playing group without finding another. Not sure it makes a lot of difference to be honest. We are stuck with DCE - we just need to get his confidence back. I reckon he could really thrive. We have never had a 9 with a kicking game. It’s invaluable , especially off both feet.See Smith Hodgson Grant Mahoney Etc- all great kicking games.

To be honest what we need is simply to give guys a chance and see if they cut it. Can we do any worse. I don’t think it’s possible is it?

I would keep it on him for one more game and get him to keep it simple .
Try to bring back his confidence slowly ,no kicking to start ,just good distribution ,heads up footy and a sh1tload of tackles.

 

[robbiea]

Lololol you seem quite the expert analyst......NOT.

Hows Walker going for ya ?

 

[manly al]

DCE. Think there is enough issues in the playing group without finding another. Not sure it makes a lot of difference to be honest. We are stuck with DCE - we just need to get his confidence back. I reckon he could really thrive. We have never had a 9 with a kicking game. It’s invaluable , especially off both feet.See Smith Hodgson Grant Mahoney Etc- all great kicking games.

To be honest what we need is simply to give guys a chance and see if they cut it. Can we do any worse. I don’t think it’s possible is it?

And also look at the past situation and pattern with previous established and notable Manly halves , Tooves , Des Monaghan , half backs to 9 and not too much fan fare or concern and all doing very well there . So maybe DCE to 9 now , not as radical as it may seem and with Foz to take on the 7 role . Schuster or Walker to 6 [ and i think Dylan would not be concerned whether he played centre or 6 , just be pleased to get away from full back i "d say ]

 

[manlyfan76]

Not sure - I have no idea sorry. All of those players were signed pre 2020 from my research.I am not sure a team would purposefully have at least 10 players contracts running out each year just in case something goes wrong. I would gather at best maybe 3 to 5. But that is just a guess.

It's mathematics. Have a look at club by club of off contract players . Ten would be close to average.

NRL Players Off Contract 2022 | NRL Contracts

A complete list of NRL players who are off contract at the end of the 2022 rugby league season.

www.zerotackle.com