Izzy sacked

[yokahontas]

I think it could very much be argued that an international sports star posting what he did, could be construed as imposing his beliefs in others.

Regardless, he breached his contract. If his contract said he can't do what he did then he breached his contract. It was very intentionally put in there after last year.

He knew the consequences.

I do not agree at all with people leaking footage of his church sermon. That's rubbish. He can say as he likes in the confines of his own church and should be free to do so.

But the Twitter stuff was a breach of contract. Simple.

100%. The social media thing - he is totally using his profile and reach as an international sports star to (at least attempt to) impose his beliefs on others. Quite likely he has been put up to it by his church, coming (as he does) from a background of growing up in one forcefully evangelistic sect, and I believe now belonging to another.

He can say what he wants in church, to his family, friends, whatever. Even discussing it in the lunchroom/locker room with your workmates/teammates - fill your boots. In that setting, they’ve at least got a right of reply, and it’s peer-to-peer, not the abuse of power of heaping your vitriol on random fans who - in some cases - idolise you and see you as a role model (rightly or wrongly).

 

[Loobs]

I think it could very much be argued that an international sports star posting what he did, could be construed as imposing his beliefs in others.

Regardless, he breached his contract. If his contract said he can't do what he did then he breached his contract. It was very intentionally put in there after last year.

He knew the consequences.

I do not agree at all with people leaking footage of his church sermon. That's rubbish. He can say as he likes in the confines of his own church and should be free to do so.

But the Twitter stuff was a breach of contract. Simple.

Is there no responsibility on the person who chooses to follow him on social media? They are directly putting themselves into his firing line. It’s like if I trawl the pol thread on 4chan then claim all the racist material on there is offensive. Yeah it is but I also was seeking it out by going to a very specific corner of the internet. There are literally tens of millions of social media accounts you could choose to follow that aren’t religious fundamentalists. Plenty of sports people who will have views that align to what you are after. If someone chooses him they can get him warts and all but that’s their choice.

 

[yokahontas]

In no way did, or would I diminish DV @yokahontas . What I'm talking about is perspective. I'm very sorry and apologetic you went through that on a personal level, but you are talking from a standpoint (which has validation) from experience, and after the behaviours escalated in your situation.

I've personally gone through a similar situation as a child / entering teens (strangled to the point of passing out by my father with electrical chords, pets shot in front of me as lessons, frequent bashings weekly to the extent I was almost dead, and left bleeding out in a gutter to die), etc etc etc: so I get it. I was actually removed from him, and was raised by my Aunt, and then an Uncle that used to occasionally get physical with me. It wasn't all roses for myself either, so to say "it’s offensive and belittling to those who have been through it", in itself is offensive to me as a man, and a person with feelings.

Then attempting to explain to me the differences or similarities between varying levels. Trust me, I know and have experienced those various levels yokahontas, but I in no way want this to diminish your situation, and life experiences either, because what happened to you wasn't right, was unfair, and just plain wrong.

Your connotation (in my opinion) that domestic violence only happens to women is both biased and unfair. It can happen to anyone. To have my hair pulled when I was in a fit of rage publicly, as upposed to knocked unconscious by my father with facial structural damage - I KNOW what I'd prefer. Jesus, I used to lay his belt out on his bed for him after school, so that when he got home, got on the turps, it was easy access for him.

Therefore, no, I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill over a young mans religious opinions in Falou. I don't think Dylan Walker should be sacked for making one mistake and pulling his wife's hair (which I think is a terrible thing to do to his wife). I think he needs help, is probably getting it, and should have an opportunity for redemption (so he DOESN'T end up like my old man). The reasons I say that are also more FOR his child and wife, and so they can live comfortably on the salary he earns.

Wow, what a heavy convo. Hope I've not offended you here. Again, I'm so sorry you went through that. It's messed up. I absolutely respect and appreciate you putting into words what happened. Looks like you've come out the other side, a strong, independent, and obviously intelligent person, so kudos to you Yoke.

I in no way suggested that domestic violence happens only to women - the specific examples I mentioned above happened when I was a child/teenager, and my brothers were absolutely subjected to physical abuse as well. I know several of my uncles were as kids as well, and some of them are still trying to get their lives back together as a result. I also know personally of males in adult heterosexual relationships who have been the victims.

But you are glossing over this incident with Dylan Walker - and I think you’re clouded by the fact he’s one of your favourite players. This wasn’t a one-off - this is the same woman who was involved in the door-punching incident several years ago. There is a pattern emerging that is frankly disturbing in the context of domestic violence, because - as I’m sure you’d know, from what you’ve related above - what happens in public is the tiniest tip of the iceberg of what they’re prepared to do to you behind closed doors. If they’ll punch a doorframe that hard because you won’t let their drunk selves into the apartment (out of fear for your own safety, I’d suggest), or yank you to the ground by the hair in full view of the neighbours...what happens when the witnesses aren’t there?!

And Folau, bottom line - he can have whatever religious views he wants. What he can’t do is use a platform and audience he solely has because of his employer to propagate views his employer has specifically told him not to. Hell, I work for a public entity - if I spread the same views on social media they could sack me too, because I signed the social media policy and did all the mandatory inclusivity training, and agreed I wouldn’t use my profile to express views contrary to the organisation’s. If I verbally expressed those views in public, in uniform, I’d 100% be sacked.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Is there no responsibility on the person who chooses to follow him on social media? They are directly putting themselves into his firing line. It’s like if I trawl the pol thread on 4chan then claim all the racist material on there is offensive. Yeah it is but I also was seeking it out by going to a very specific corner of the internet. There are literally tens of millions of social media accounts you could choose to follow that aren’t religious fundamentalists. Plenty of sports people who will have views that align to what you are after. If someone chooses him they can get him warts and all but that’s their choice.

But he's not an obscure 4chan thread. He is an elite level sport star, people follow him because he is a Wallaby not because they want to know his religious beliefs, ijn the same way that most of us check social media profiles of manly players to check for updates. But he chose not to separate the two (his twitter profile pick has him in a waratah's jersey) and has used his sporting profile to push those (hateful) views.

 

[Nice Beaver]

Is there no responsibility on the person who chooses to follow him on social media? They are directly putting themselves into his firing line. It’s like if I trawl the pol thread on 4chan then claim all the racist material on there is offensive. Yeah it is but I also was seeking it out by going to a very specific corner of the internet. There are literally tens of millions of social media accounts you could choose to follow that aren’t religious fundamentalists. Plenty of sports people who will have views that align to what you are after. If someone chooses him they can get him warts and all but that’s their choice.

I don't follow him on Twitter. But it took all of 5 minutes for it to fill every twitter feed and be sprayed all over the media.

So its not about whether or no you personally follow him.

Given his profile, the bile spreads like wildfire.

So unless its everyones fault for having the internet and social media, then the responsibility 100% lies with Folou.

 

[Harmless27]

As a side note - can i just say....

Good, productive, insightful chat here from the Silvertails crew! Nothing too personal, no attacking of each other. just reasoned, insightful debate on an fascinating topic.

I am enjoying reading all of the views - brightens my Friday here in Melbourne as I cruise towards a weekend

And for the record (can't remember who picked me up on this) I do agree that Izzy doing this on Social Media contravenes the terms of his employment contract, and he ABSOLUTELY is forcing his views onto others by doing this. Sack him, make a stand, and move on. This is actually a gift for Rugby Union. I think they have reacted well. Now let him bugger off to French Rugby and be done with it (I look forward to seeing what happens at the bottom of that first ruck in French Rugby - hope he cops a boot in the face an a good eye gouge too)

 

[Loobs]

But he's not an obscure 4chan thread. He is an elite level sport star, people follow him because he is a Wallaby not because they want to know his religious beliefs, ijn the same way that most of us check social media profiles of manly players to check for updates. But he chose not to separate the two (his twitter profile pick has him in a waratah's jersey) and has used his sporting profile to push those (hateful) views.

I follow a bunch of Braza's on Instagram for their BJJ vids and they always post religious stuff. Just skip straight past those posts to them choking someone. Easy. If it gets heavy I unfollow. I never get outraged because I understand some people are religious, some are hard-line. I went to Catholic school and had their garbage rammed down our throats. Someone people believe it, some really believe, some people enjoy science class more and believe that...

 

[Loobs]

I don't follow him on Twitter. But it took all of 5 minutes for it to fill every twitter feed and be sprayed all over the media.

So its not about whether or no you personally follow him.

Given his profile, the bile spreads like wildfire.

So unless its everyones fault for having the internet and social media, then the responsibility 100% lies with Folou.

True and yes, I agree that anyone who has social media is to blame for it

I think if the mainstream media didn't pick it up and push it, it wouldn't be a big deal. SMH is loving it...

 

[malroon]

So Izzy should confine his "hate speech" and not thrust it upon others, but we can have the mardi gra..??? HYPOCRITES..!!

 

[MuzztheEagle]

I follow a bunch of Braza's on Instagram for their BJJ vids and they always post religious stuff. Just skip straight past those posts to them choking someone.

I think we need a WTF rating!

 

[Nice Beaver]

True and yes, I agree that anyone who has social media is to blame for it

I think if the mainstream media didn't pick it up and push it, it wouldn't be a big deal. SMH is loving it...

But mate, he is an international footballer with around 125k followers...how would it ever NOT be picked up by the media.

Like I have said, what he says in his church (or loungeroom or the weekend BBQ etc) is his business.

What he (or anyone) puts out on social media to his 125k followers) and then indirectly millions of other people, is his responsibility and he wears the consequences.

Anyway....over it haha...bring on the Knights tomorrow!!

 

[Ryan]

I in no way suggested that domestic violence happens only to women - the specific examples I mentioned above happened when I was a child/teenager, and my brothers were absolutely subjected to physical abuse as well. I know several of my uncles were as kids as well, and some of them are still trying to get their lives back together as a result. I also know personally of males in adult heterosexual relationships who have been the victims.

But you are glossing over this incident with Dylan Walker - and I think you’re clouded by the fact he’s one of your favourite players. This wasn’t a one-off - this is the same woman who was involved in the door-punching incident several years ago. There is a pattern emerging that is frankly disturbing in the context of domestic violence, because - as I’m sure you’d know, from what you’ve related above - what happens in public is the tiniest tip of the iceberg of what they’re prepared to do to you behind closed doors. If they’ll punch a doorframe that hard because you won’t let their drunk selves into the apartment (out of fear for your own safety, I’d suggest), or yank you to the ground by the hair in full view of the neighbours...what happens when the witnesses aren’t there?!

And Folau, bottom line - he can have whatever religious views he wants. What he can’t do is use a platform and audience he solely has because of his employer to propagate views his employer has specifically told him not to. Hell, I work for a public entity - if I spread the same views on social media they could sack me too, because I signed the social media policy and did all the mandatory inclusivity training, and agreed I wouldn’t use my profile to express views contrary to the organisation’s. If I verbally expressed those views in public, in uniform, I’d 100% be sacked.

Definitely not trying to gloss, I guess I'm just trying to place perspective Yoke. Hey, tbh I've thumped a coffee table in frustration at my kids and lovely wife at times. I hope that doesn't correlate to a pathway to DV. Besides, she's bigger than me in height, so she'd probably thump me if I tried (note tongue in cheek comment to lighten the mood).

We can only hypothesis or guess what Dylan does behind closed doors. Implying that because he hits doors, or pulls hair in public is an insight into deeper behaviour is pretty dangerous & defamatory tbh. Without insight into the court outcome, I'm just not willing to judge (looking at Brett Stewart , who most claimed was guilty as charged, and that definitive evidence and witnesses were available). We just need to be careful, not to hang, draw and quarter this kid, yet. I doubt Des would go to court and support the guy (and his partner), if he was absolutely at fault here (again, not diminishing, if he did do that, it was really ****ty).

IF Dylan Walker is found innocent for some reason, what then? That's all I'm saying.

On a separate note, people who harm or hurt another person in any way (doesn't matter about age, sex, race, religion, anything) really upsets me. That's why I'm so high on being open minded, and showing empathy to one and other, regardless of opinion.

Jeez, look at some of the things the president of the U.S.A says on social media. Pretty ordinary at times.

Who really cares what Israel Falou says to anyone? Who does it hurt? Jeez, if you look at the list, most of those there are actually friends of mine. I have gay friends, I have atheist friends etc. Does his little whinge affect any of that? No way. Are we really that precious that he loses his career over his opinion?

Surely people have more important things in their lives to worry about than this crap? Isn't there better things to focus on? It's a worry.

 

[Woodsie]

I don't care about his or anyone else's personal opinions either.

But when the personal views are put onto social media in direct contravention of his employment contract (and do harm to any brand he represents) then it is an issue.

He can say what he likes in his inner circle...and when he retires, in any public forum he likes. But when you are paid by and represent an organisation, you tow the company line.

That is the rub .... they are not his personal views .... they are the views of his church based on the writings of his Holy Book .....

I will accept the convictions of Rugby Union to be genuine if they also ban every member of his church from attending or watching games ....

 

[Kevinward777]

@Woodsie I am officially your new biggest fan. You have smashed it out of the ballpark... I won’t be mentioning Baz for at least a week.

 

[Nice Beaver]

That is the rub .... they are not his personal views .... they are the views of his church based on the writings of his Holy Book .....

I will accept the convictions of Rugby Union to be genuine if they also ban every member of his church from attending or watching games ....

Mate, how are they not his personal views?

He may be quoting it from somewhere, but its still his belief.

If I posted a pro-Nazi piece on my account it would be because I believed in what was being said.. .making it my own personal belief. (That is NIT me saying I am pro-Nazi before anyone jumps on that...just an example of hate speech)

People follow whatever ideology it is, because it resonates witg their personal values.

So I can't agree that its not his personal views being put out there to the world.

 

[Woodsie]

@Woodsie I am officially your new biggest fan. You have smashed it out of the ballpark... I won’t be mentioning Baz for at least a week.

Let me change that for you .....

I personally think Izzy is a misguided and deluded fool for entertaining such ridiculous beliefs ..... however I am at a loss to see how you can attack a person for simply preaching the beliefs of his religion without also attacking the religion itself .... and that would be all colours of religion that share a similar view expressed in their holy books .... ban them all and all their adherents is the logical end game ...

There are reasons why freedom of speech laws are so important ..... they are the first laws destroyed by dictatorships ... and religous zealots alike .....

 

[brad]

The world has gone fukhing mad , Fair dinkum .

 

[Woodsie]

Mate, how are they not his personal views?

He may be quoting it from somewhere, but its still his belief.

If I posted a pro-Nazi piece on my account it would be because I believed in what was being said.. .making it my own personal belief. (That is NIT me saying I am pro-Nazi before anyone jumps on that...just an example of hate speech)

People follow whatever ideology it is, because it resonates witg their personal values.

So I can't agree that its not his personal views being put out there to the world.

Agree ... read my comment as saying ... not just his personal views, but are also the teachings of his church .. .......

 

[Nice Beaver]

Let me change that for you .....

I personally think Izzy is a misguided and deluded fool for entertaining such ridiculous beliefs ..... however I am at a loss to see how you can attack a person for simply preaching the beliefs of his religion without also attacking the religion itself .... and that would be all colours of religion that share a similar view expressed in their holy books .... ban them all and all their adherents is the logical end game ...

There are reasons why freedom of speech laws are so important ..... they are the first laws destroyed by dictatorships ... and religous zealots alike .....

Nobody is saying he cannot have his religous beliefs.

The ARU are saying that he breached his employment contract in expressing his beliefs in the manner he did.

If he posted something about his religion that did not persecute and condemn other people, nobody would have an issue with it.

But he did. After they put a clause in his contract telling him specifically not to. When you are paid $4 million to represent an organisation, you have a responsibilty to uphold their image and values.

Telling people their sexual orientation is wrong and condemning them is not a great look for any organisation....so...he is sacked.

Jumping on Twitter and saying God is great and my church rocks is a different kettle of fish.

 

[Kevinward777]

The

The world has gone fukhing mad , Fair dinkum .

Completely stark raving it would seem.