Gordon Chan Kum Tong

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

He's no where near the answer when your forwards a powder puff flogs.

Watched him play yesterday for BWSE and he was great at marshalling the pack and was instrumental in some of their tries.
The big difference between Croker and Gordie is that Gordie is a vocal leader. When the chips are down he can inspire the forwards, and hes always encouraging. Croker just seems to look like a guy whos playing to keep his spot for next week and that doesnt inspire confidence in the players around him.

 

[eaglebuzz]

He's no where near the answer when your forwards a powder puff flogs.

Part of the reason our forwards are ineffectual is because slow service out of dummy half completely blunts the attack.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Part of the reason our forwards are ineffectual is because slow service out of dummy half completely blunts the attack.

I notice the difference in the passing. Gordie's service is quick and his passes are on point.
His game is very similar to Fainu, except he's just smaller.

 

[Peter C]

I have a bad feeling that people thinking this kid is the answer are going to be disappointed ... I also hope I am very very wrong.

I also hope you're wrong, but I think you are right

 

[Rocky]

I also hope you're wrong, but I think you are right

+1

Weekes was also seen as the solution and he's still a major work in progress. Gordie will be the same.

Even saying that, both should still be picked rather than the plodders.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

+1

Weekes was also seen as the solution and he's still a major work in progress. Gordie will be the same.

Even saying that, both should still be picked rather than the plodders.

Both Gordie and Kaeo will need a year or two to develop into the top game. Can't be worse than a few guys that have been below par for the best part of 5 years now.

 

[Daddycool]

I agree, he’s not going to be the savior. However, he absolutely needs to be in the 17 as soon as possible. He and Croker can share the #9 and #14 jumpers for the rest of the year. There’s lots of small changes that can be made to improve the situation, this one seems reasonably straightforward.

 

[Ranga]

He's no where near the answer when your forwards a powder puff flogs.

That’s it in a sentence. Replace Croker with Grant and we still get smoked last night.

While I’m at it, the whole “we aren’t going to win a premiership with Croker/Parker in the team” argument frustrates me. If we were the third or fourth placed team, playing consistent footy and were struggling to take the next step, I’d say fair enough. But we have so many other, higher priority issues to address first.

 

[Rocky]

That’s it in a sentence. Replace Croker with Grant and we still get smoked last night.

While I’m at it, the whole “we aren’t going to win a premiership with Croker/Parker in the team” argument frustrates me. If we were the third or fourth placed team, playing consistent footy and were struggling to take the next step, I’d say fair enough. But we have so many other, higher priority issues to address first.

Yeah agree with a lot of this.

Teams have won the premiership with low-cost hard-working players like those two you mentioned. But that assumes the rest of the team is really good.

But we aren't really good. So, who do you try and replace? The high-cost guys or the low-cost tradesmen?

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

That’s it in a sentence. Replace Croker with Grant and we still get smoked last night.

While I’m at it, the whole “we aren’t going to win a premiership with Croker/Parker in the team” argument frustrates me. If we were the third or fourth placed team, playing consistent footy and were struggling to take the next step, I’d say fair enough. But we have so many other, higher priority issues to address first.

Croker / Parker / Harper have been playing consistent footy....park footy that is.
It's not about just winning a premiership...its about putting a decent team on the park who will work hard and be competitive. Sadly we don't have players that can do many of the basics right.
I had concerns even during the win in round 1 against the Bulldogs and round 3 against the eels.
Croker got thoroughly outplayed by Mahoney and when we were up against the Eels he made some stupid decisions to let the eels back into the game.

 

[Ranga]

Yeah agree with a lot of this.

Teams have won the premiership with low-cost hard-working players like those two you mentioned. But that assumes the rest of the team is really good.

But we aren't really good. So, who do you try and replace? The high-cost guys or the low-cost tradesmen?

Your last paragraph is the interesting part of the overall discussion for me.

Because the NRL has no draft, it’s hard for clubs to undertake a proper rebuild. Replacing low cost tradesman for unknown youth or other low cost tradesman seems like too much wishing and hoping for me - get it wrong and you set your club back many years.

Perhaps the answer is being willing to subsidise some of the higher paid players to play at other clubs in order to get the right calibre of player (or players) in. Like most things though, the answer probably involves a little bit of both - replace low cost tradesmen with youth and hope one or two come good, and subsidise underperforming higher salary players for mid range players that you think suit your system/style of football you want to play.

I just think - and it seems you agree - focusing on individual players overlooks the fact it is a team game and there are many facets that make champion teams.

 

[Ranga]

Croker / Parker / Harper have been playing consistent footy....park footy that is.
It's not about just winning a premiership...its about putting a decent team on the park who will work hard and be competitive. Sadly we don't have players that can do many of the basics right.
I had concerns even during the win in round 1 against the Bulldogs and round 3 against the eels.
Croker got thoroughly outplayed by Mahoney and when we were up against the Eels he made some stupid decisions to let the eels back into the game.

I believe Croker and Parker have a role to play in our team. Are they the best hooker or centre in the comp? Of course not but I also don’t expect players on the lower amounts to be superstars.

You mention Mahoney in round 1. I agree he outplayed Croker, but to be honest, that was one of the best performances I have seen from a hooker in many years. I think it said more about how good Mahoney is rather than how poor Croker is.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

I believe Croker and Parker have a role to play in our team. Are they the best hooker or centre in the comp? Of course not but I also don’t expect players on the lower amounts to be superstars.

You mention Mahoney in round 1. I agree he outplayed Croker, but to be honest, that was one of the best performances I have seen from a hooker in many years. I think it said more about how good Mahoney is rather than how poor Croker is.

He got outgunned by Brailey last week, Hodgson 3 weeks ago and Soni Luke last night.
Brailey is a run of the mill hooker and Soni Luke has only played 9 games in the NRL.
Against Parramatta we were ahead and he made some silly decisions such as kicking the ball dead to let Parra back in the game. Hodgson scored a try as a result of a missed tackle on Dylan Brown from Croker.
He missed 9 tackles against the Knights as well.
Check the stats for yourself.
He's getting beatdown from his opposite number week in week out.

 

[Woodsie]

He got outgunned by Brailey last week, Hodgson 3 weeks ago and Soni Luke last night.
Brailey is a run of the mill hooker and Soni Luke has only played 9 games in the NRL.
Against Parramatta we were ahead and he made some silly decisions such as kicking the ball dead to let Parra back in the game. Hodgson scored a try as a result of a missed tackle on Dylan Brown from Croker.
He missed 9 tackles against the Knights as well.
Check the stats for yourself.
He's getting beatdown from his opposite number week in week out.

You seriously need to get a girlfriend .....

 

[rj90]

Bagging a bloke for his performance never gets old unless you start resorting to personal insults...which is something ive never done.

It really isnt that hard to see...yet you make it seem like its a personal insult when all i have pointed out is facts.

You’ve been here 3 weeks.
Posted around 118 messages.
Over 60% would be whinging about something, with a substantial number of those being about Croker, closely followed by Parker. Get a grip.

 

[mave]

I'm all for GCKT getting a gig.
We certainly need a new whipping boy, to share the load with Weekes.

The constant whinging about Parker and Croker is getting stale, we need some fresh meat.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Watched him play yesterday for BWSE and he was great at marshalling the pack and was instrumental in some of their tries.
The big difference between Croker and Gordie is that Gordie is a vocal leader. When the chips are down he can inspire the forwards, and hes always encouraging. Croker just seems to look like a guy whos playing to keep his spot for next week and that doesnt inspire confidence in the players around him.

Exactly. He is a massive talker. Been saying this for ages. Revs up the forwards, directs traffic, has footy smarts.

We are lacking this big time. All the great attack I have been watching this weekend starts from the hooker. We would be so much more dangerous with the ball and in sync with Gordon and Shuster.

Crocker is just is too clunky and slow and predictable.

To make matters worse, his passing especially to DCE for a field goal takes an eternity.

 

[Simonmyers11]

I'm all for GCKT getting a gig.
We certainly need a new whipping boy, to share the load with Weekes.

The constant whinging about Parker and Croker is getting stale, we need some fresh meat.

@TheSoaringEagle2023 has a point. Its getting hard to watch, even if we make a break or have the ball 20m out, Crockers passing goes behind players or above their head. The defence just jams in on DCE because their is no threat from hooker.

I just want to see Gordon on the bench at least.

 

[Damien2812]

The last 3 years Manly haven't had a quality hooker and have persistented with Croker since that time. How stupid can recruitment be to not sign someone decent enough to play hooker in that time period? The hooker position is very crucial in the current game and if you don't have someone who can do the job your going to struggle.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

You’ve been here 3 weeks.
Posted around 118 messages.
Over 60% would be whinging about something, with a substantial number of those being about Croker, closely followed by Parker. Get a grip.

Its called having an opinion, im not stopping you from having yours so grab a box of kleenex if youre not happy. Do you decide the quotas of what can be discussed and not discussed?
You really don't have to respond to my posts, its not hard.