DCE and Foran. Is it working?

[jbb/james]

The fact that Foran has been considered one of our best players really concerns me. Seems to be a mentality that exists that if a player tries hard he is effective. Not so. Our results against the tops sides in the last two years with the Foran and DCE combination has well and truly established that. Neither is a leader and takes control of a game when we are in trouble. DCE has a propensity of attempting low percentage players when we are in trouble and generally they don't come off and he digs the tired pack into an even deeper hole. Foz doesn't take control either other than tackling he butt off and he is not getting any younger and he isn't getting any quicker and he doesn't look to be troubling the defence or putting players into space. Lest face it he is at the end of his career and well past his best physically. But that doesn't make you competitive against the big boys. It doesn't instill confidence and belief in your pack particularly the younger players that they have someone to lead them out of trouble. Mentally our side is brittle and it doesn't look to me that they believe in the current system and game plans. The pack also needs a fearless and inspiring leader what a shame we didn't go after Dale Finucane.

if we are to continue this optimistic touch footy approach with little consequence we should have signed him and jackson. I think i said it last year so i agree 100%

 

[Shoe1]

in years ago, my recollection is that foran ran his side with skivvy and horo while gifty ran the right with lyon.Snake made them all look good. DCE was a surprise packet with very little responsibility and a limited role

as his role has expanded the team has looks less composed and more chooky

foz is running his side. probably his sublime plays makes parker look better. just doesnt get enough action or kicking. i suppose because he kicks better close to the line and we are rarely there

DCe side has crucified sirro( it seems harper is also getting the useless turn under going nowhere ball , suli also who looked like a superstar when he had a game on the right , is making harper look worse each week and oku rarely rarely gets good clean ball and is always having to check his run as DCE overplays the dummies, swerves and shimmies before releasing . in round 1 kikau was getting sweet ball and giving harper a bath and oka was getting ball flat at the line even when we had opportunity. none of this not possible thing

it seems everyone is fat shaming the forwards and some of that is very deserved but if anyone thinks we are going to build the platform to compete against the top sides without the assistance , knowledge and gameplan the halves bring is only being half serious. better halfbacks keep there teams in games when the forward struggle. very interesting listening to cronk talk about halfbacks last night on 360

we often talk about MIGOTY
what about MIPOTY of 2021. the play instead of game

semi final against melb, early shell shocked and down on the scoreboard. our powder puff forwards fight back, gain field position and with the injection of walker a player who actually takes on the line makes deep yardage, we have field position, the storm stretched and DCE rushes up to take a blindside play, a little kick and oku at worst gets us a repeat set. overcook, dummy, dont give it to oku, checks his run again, dce gets cornered, chucks a stupid ball to oku who is forced to kick, it goes dead, valve released, storm are on half way by the time DCE scratches his head on second

teams wilt when you build pressure. our valve is dodgy even if the forwards do the job , ask afb, he has also had stats of 25 minutes and 1 or 2 runs , at manly, So he was soft too then . can we seriously ignore the only common denominators

That's interesting. I remember DCE excelling for Qld in about 2014 or 2015 when he was a super-sub running half. Maybe he has some life left in him if Des can find an organiser for the right side, and free DCE for eyes-up stuff.

 

[The Indian]

I've never been DCE biggest fan cause I think he has been too erratic and random to be a consistently elite halfback. To me he's a good player not great player for that reason and has been his whole career.

BUT I actually think this year he's trying to put in a more targeted and strategical game plan but it's just not working cause our forwards are being obliterated and our outside backs are getting pinned down in defensive corners. Then we start every set badly off the back foot and never recover.

Yes DCE can and probably will play better and needs to BUT before that we need some forwards who make yards, a hooker who can take the heat off the ball runners and some outside backs who can at least hold their own in the first few sets in tough yardage carry situations.

I usually blame DCE in years gone by I'm far from his biggest fan, but don't think it's mainly him this time..

 

[jbb/james]

That's interesting. I remember DCE excelling for Qld in about 2014 or 2015 when he was a super-sub running half. Maybe he has some life left in him if Des can find an organiser for the right side, and free DCE for eyes-up stuff

and many people see that as the role he is best suited too now, Good era to be a bench man for qld too from memory

you just cant juggle a 1.2m player for special eyes up assignments. he is here, thats our cap, it is what it is. I just feel it would be easier for him to bend a little toward what the team needs

i suppose i dont expect the dude to grow taller, be faster, just think more and do less but you can see the reluctance from adelaide outside my window and its 1973 here and DCE hasnt been born yet

 

[HoldenV8]

The dogs are not near the level of Riff and Easts. TPJ took it to the broncs and his buddies followed but guess what? They still lost. I doubt TPJ will play two games like that in a row. Our forwards on the other hand need to pull their fingers out and earn this win. We win the middle and we win this game comfortably. I still maintain we’ve had the worst draw so far, Penrith away in their GF homecoming plus off a toweling to the Eels and Easts off a hiding to the underrated knights. It probably doesn’t get tougher. Wouldn’t like to be the dogs next Sunday arvo.

TPJ is the Joey Leilua of the forwards. All brawn, no brain. He is literally one send off away from a long suspension.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Our forwards have been next to useless, but DCE has to be better than he has been - and I'm sure he will know that. When you've got the ball you have to make use of it, especially when you're getting hammered defensively. You can't keep throwing it over the sideline, kicking it dead or kicking it to nobody on tackle three. All that does is make everybody's heads drop as they prepare to absorb yet another set of six, which too often turns into a set of 12, in defence. It can't be good for anybody's morale to see their captain and leader continually ****ing up. So yes, everybody needs to do better, but Cherry needs to be better than all of them as well.

 

[Woodsie]

I didn’t get to watch the games on TV but I constantly checked the score on the NRL website. The first thing that stood out when looking was the METRES GAINED. Both games after 30 min we had made around half the metres of the Panthers and Roosters.

Halves don’t mater when your forwards are getting owned. Couple this with the fact that Manly has adopted fast attacking wingers not powerful yard takers and it’s not great for field position or defensive fatigue.

We need better props, it’s pretty simple.

Here's the thing though .. I don't think our forwards are getting "owned"

By that I mean man for man in the contest they are more than capable ..

In my opinion they are not being coached into the game as a priority ... it is almost like they are coached to ignore all that silly tough stuff in the middle.

Keppie and Marty didn't only make one run each in their first spells because they were standing around refusing to run .. it just appears that contesting the middle is over rated or old fashioned at manly.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

and many people see that as the role he is best suited too now, Good era to be a bench man for qld too from memory

you just cant juggle a 1.2m player for special eyes up assignments. he is here, thats our cap, it is what it is. I just feel it would be easier for him to bend a little toward what the team needs

i suppose i dont expect the dude to grow taller, be faster, just think more and do less but you can see the reluctance from adelaide outside my window and its 1973 here and DCE hasnt been born yet

All the DCE bashing is fine but the million dollar question is who do you have in the shed to replace him?

Luke brooks on 900k? Ash Taylor 1mill to train and trial? Mitch moses who looks like a god in every match till round 15 then dissappears? Ben Hunt? The dog whisperer Mitch Pierce? Who?

DCE while far from perfect is a top 3 NRL HB and we as a side are better for it. I would love to see us without the guy.

 

[jbb/james]

Our forwards have been next to useless, but DCE has to be better than he has been - and I'm sure he will know that. When you've got the ball you have to make use of it, especially when you're getting hammered defensively. You can't keep throwing it over the sideline, kicking it dead or kicking it to nobody on tackle three. All that does is make everybody's heads drop as they prepare to absorb yet another set of six, which too often turns into a set of 12, in defence. It can't be good for anybody's morale to see their captain and leader continually ****ing up. So yes, everybody needs to do better, but Cherry needs to be better than all of them as well.

Thanks, i babble too much. But hell yeah

 

[jbb/james]

All the DCE bashing is fine but the million dollar question is who do you have in the shed to replace him?

Luke brooks on 900k? Ash Taylor 1mill to train and trial? Mitch moses who looks like a god in every match till round 15 then dissappears? Ben Hunt? The dog whisperer Mitch Pierce? Who?

DCE while far from perfect is a top 3 NRL HB and we as a side are better for it. I would love to see us without the guy.

Considering his ouput do we need to. Foz, walker, schuster and some youngies coming through are not going to win us some comps but either is DCE but we might be competitive against better teams with another 1.2 to spend


Hasting and another 750 k would have been nice
Burton went to the dogs for 450k . Would have loved to be in that hunt.
Reynolds probably would have stayed in sydney a bit cheaper
Keary, cleary, cronk,all went for cheaper coin during his contract
Moses is improving considerably
what about that o sullivan. One of the recent Titans games fogaty taught him halfback 101

Just someone who engages the line. You watch 360 did you hear cronk talking halfback last night and go yeah we got that at manly. NO freaking way

 

[The Indian]

Here's the thing though .. I don't think our forwards are getting "owned"

By that I mean man for man in the contest they are more than capable ..

In my opinion they are not being coached into the game as a priority ... it is almost like they are coached to ignore all that silly tough stuff in the middle.

Keppie and Marty didn't only make one run each in their first spells because they were standing around refusing to run .. it just appears that contesting the middle is over rated or old fashioned at manly.

I see you're point here and agree. How many sets have we seen this year that go something like this.

Tackle 1) Opposition kicks high bomb to corner Jason Saab catches and gets set upon instantly pummeled 10m out from own line. tackle 1.
Tackle 2 ) Harper sitting duck dummy half run few metres swarming defence.
Tackle 3) Parker/Garrick/Saab dummy half run ditto again barely outside 20m
Tackle 4 ) "Insert" Prop Forward gets back onside and makes tough 10m run.
Tackle 5 ) Shift to the edge use the backline off no go forward and get tackled on 40m line.
Tackle 6 deep kick, mediocre chase, opposition catch cleanly and run it back out with momentum. Pin us down again rinse and repeat.

Good kick chase footy gasses your opposition forwards and they get no chance to get back onside quickly and build some momentum. The forwards end of tackling and not running. Teams are doing it to us in a plan designed solely to stop Tom BUT flow on affect is it's taking the ball out of the hands of our forwards.

 

[johnperi01]

All the DCE bashing is fine but the million dollar question is who do you have in the shed to replace him?

Luke brooks on 900k? Ash Taylor 1mill to train and trial? Mitch moses who looks like a god in every match till round 15 then dissappears? Ben Hunt? The dog whisperer Mitch Pierce? Who?

DCE while far from perfect is a top 3 NRL HB and we as a side are better for it. I would love to see us without the guy.

As much as it pains me to say it, I don’t see us winning a premiership with DCE at number 7.
Despite being our most experienced player, he t as led too many wrong options, doesn’t put enough pressure on the opposition with his kicks, and I think his decision making in defence on the right side is one of the reasons we struggle to hold teams out.
Definitely need to get Schuster in the halves as soon as possible and a proper 9.

 

[maxta]

I see you're point here and agree. How many sets have we seen this year that go something like this.

Tackle 1) Opposition kicks high bomb to corner Jason Saab catches and gets set upon instantly pummeled 10m out from own line. tackle 1.
Tackle 2 ) Harper sitting duck dummy half run few metres swarming defence.
Tackle 3) Parker/Garrick/Saab dummy half run ditto again barely outside 20m
Tackle 4 ) "Insert" Prop Forward gets back onside and makes tough 10m run.
Tackle 5 ) Shift to the edge use the backline off no go forward and get tackled on 40m line.
Tackle 6 deep kick, mediocre chase, opposition catch cleanly and run it back out with momentum. Pin us down again rinse and repeat.

Good kick chase footy gasses your opposition forwards and they get no chance to get back onside quickly and build some momentum. The forwards end of tackling and not running. Teams are doing it to us in a plan designed solely to stop Tom BUT flow on affect is it's taking the ball out of the hands of our forwards.

Great to see the LFC emblem @ The Indian and good summary also

 

[The Indian]

Great to see the LFC emblem @ The Indian and good summary also

Thanks Champ - I come from good Scouse stock ( if there is such a thing ) and dreaming of the mythical quadruple this year. I'm 50/50 in passion between Manly and Liverpool normally, but getting more joy out of the reds at present obviously.

 

[alafua8]

As much as it pains me to say it, I don’t see us winning a premiership with DCE at number 7.
Despite being our most experienced player, he t as led too many wrong options, doesn’t put enough pressure on the opposition with his kicks, and I think his decision making in defence on the right side is one of the reasons we struggle to hold teams out.
Definitely need to get Schuster in the halves as soon as possible and a proper 9.

I think Foz and Evans are more scared of Schuster and the young ones coming through taking their spots instead of creating opportunities for the team.( playing individually )The future for Manly are their young guns and we need some in the halves for 2023 .For some reason if we miss out in the finals , we should play some of the youngsters in the last few rounds at 5/8 and half/back to prepare them for next year but we should be in the finals .Let's go Mannnnnnnnly .

 

[Shoe1]

Considering his ouput do we need to. Foz, walker, schuster and some youngies coming through are not going to win us some comps but either is DCE but we might be competitive against better teams with another 1.2 to spend


Hasting and another 750 k would have been nice
Burton went to the dogs for 450k . Would have loved to be in that hunt.
Reynolds probably would have stayed in sydney a bit cheaper
Keary, cleary, cronk,all went for cheaper coin during his contract
Moses is improving considerably
what about that o sullivan. One of the recent Titans games fogaty taught him halfback 101

Just someone who engages the line. You watch 360 did you hear cronk talking halfback last night and go yeah we got that at manly. NO freaking way

I think Humphreys is really good, sooner rather than later.

Soaking up experience a key for Jamie Humphreys

Jamie Humphreys doesn’t need to walk far to ask for advice from one of Manly’s greatest halves pairing in Daly Cherry-Evans and Kieran Foran.

www.seaeagles.com.au

 

[Dunder Mifflin]

in years ago, my recollection is that foran ran his side with skivvy and horo while gifty ran the right with lyon.Snake made them all look good. DCE was a surprise packet with very little responsibility and a limited role

as his role has expanded the team has looks less composed and more chooky

foz is running his side. probably his sublime plays makes parker look better. just doesnt get enough action or kicking. i suppose because he kicks better close to the line and we are rarely there

DCe side has crucified sirro( it seems harper is also getting the useless turn under going nowhere ball , suli also who looked like a superstar when he had a game on the right , is making harper look worse each week and oku rarely rarely gets good clean ball and is always having to check his run as DCE overplays the dummies, swerves and shimmies before releasing . in round 1 kikau was getting sweet ball and giving harper a bath and oka was getting ball flat at the line even when we had opportunity. none of this not possible thing

it seems everyone is fat shaming the forwards and some of that is very deserved but if anyone thinks we are going to build the platform to compete against the top sides without the assistance , knowledge and gameplan the halves bring is only being half serious. better halfbacks keep there teams in games when the forward struggle. very interesting listening to cronk talk about halfbacks last night on 360

we often talk about MIGOTY
what about MIPOTY of 2021. the play instead of game

semi final against melb, early shell shocked and down on the scoreboard. our powder puff forwards fight back, gain field position and with the injection of walker a player who actually takes on the line makes deep yardage, we have field position, the storm stretched and DCE rushes up to take a blindside play, a little kick and oku at worst gets us a repeat set. overcook, dummy, dont give it to oku, checks his run again, dce gets cornered, chucks a stupid ball to oku who is forced to kick, it goes dead, valve released, storm are on half way by the time DCE scratches his head on second

teams wilt when you build pressure. our valve is dodgy even if the forwards do the job , ask afb, he has also had stats of 25 minutes and 1 or 2 runs , at manly, So he was soft too then . can we seriously ignore the only common denominators

Yes dce is the king of this but he always gets better as the season goes on. He will need to build his confidence against the lower teams like the last few seasons. Thing with dce is i dont think we can win a premiership with him at 7. I think his best position moving forward would be 9 but i dont see him accepting that

 

[Under the Sticks]

I dunno, wot if its a really uggo baby?

@globaleagle only added angry to give you the full set of faces!

 

[XV-1]

Jeez your on a warpath for our players lately. Its 2 games into the season against 2 top 4 sides.

Yes we had 3 or 4 opportunities..... 3 or 4! Its not many so if DCE and Foz forget to get together for a try root (dry root - see what I did there) then its not that big a deal yet.

Didn't one of those 3 - 4 times lead to the Tommy dropped ball on the certain try? Its not like we had nothing.

I have been watching DCE & Foran play together for the last 13 months.

Not really on the war path , just asking the question, are they working as a team for the betterment of Manly.

IMO, no they are not. They are both brilliant players, but they need to work more as a team.

Am I really on the war path asking this question?
I truly want Manly to be the best team it can be, hence asking some questions

 

[Chip and Chase]

David Brent Evans.