DCE and Foran. Is it working?

[Shoe1]

It’s not working. They were good last year.

I think they might be too old, however with the money on offer there is no incentive to retire. Possibly they can rally and have a great season from here, but their best days are behind them.

In contrast, both Rex and Randall both retired during pre-season when they felt a bit off the pace at training.

 

[swoop]

We need our forwards to do their job and go forward and the rest should sort itself out. Unfortunately our pack is lacking and being dominated by opposition packs who seem to be bigger, harder running and have more mongrel. Getting rid of AFB was a big mistake in my opinion. We also need Fainu back. We will keep struggling if our forwards keep getting dominated. Maybe should also move up in a line instead of waiting for the opposition to come to them.

 

[Waz13]

No not a good idea
Manly do need a win and the forwards will have to be at the forefront for that to happen hopefully this weeks game , as I don’t think the dogs are at the Panthers or Roosters level

The dogs are not near the level of Riff and Easts. TPJ took it to the broncs and his buddies followed but guess what? They still lost. I doubt TPJ will play two games like that in a row. Our forwards on the other hand need to pull their fingers out and earn this win. We win the middle and we win this game comfortably. I still maintain we’ve had the worst draw so far, Penrith away in their GF homecoming plus off a toweling to the Eels and Easts off a hiding to the underrated knights. It probably doesn’t get tougher. Wouldn’t like to be the dogs next Sunday arvo.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Last week we had 3 or 4 opportunities in attack inside Roosters 20. All opportunities ended up with nothing.

They exclusively stayed their own side. Why? Having 2 great ball players on one side has got to create some doubt in the mind of the defenders?

also means they can forget the other side of the field because the ball sure as eggs isn't going to that side. Your idea is good but in principle unless there is another ball player on the other side - ie Schu then you can' have both halves on the same side

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

The spacing between DCE and Haumole was off in the first try. Spacing is usually organised whilst the attacking player is held down, before getting up to play the ball. The ‘off’ spacing seems to be the result of not controlling the ruck in a way that allows the defence time to organise itself. We were in tatters from the opening kick off due to a complete lack of intensity.

You’re certainly correct that there was poor cover, but just pointing out the reason for it. Haumole shouldn’t be running from left to right with his inside shoulder exposed. With a controlled ruck, he would have been in position and wouldn’t have needed to.

yep indeed - Haumole needs to be back in the line - moving up first and sliding second after the ball has gone and yes the gap between he and DCE regularly is huge... I can only guess the inside forwards haven't got in position forcing the Big O to hang around there before trying to move out wider?

 

[Pete W]

For mine, this should be a no-brainer but contract sums, club politics etc would always be an impediment: DCE is NOT a 7. He never was our game manager. He likes the number cause it makes him more money. Foran IS a game manager. DCE makes a great running 6, off-the-cuff, etc (with a great long kicking game) ONLY when everything else is ticking along nicely. Obviously Des can't change the numbers on their jerseys, but he can change their roles and responsibilities.

This potentially great halves pairing will disappear into nothingness if Des doesn't wake up. It will be one of the biggest wastes of talent in our recent history

 

[Snake]

We need our forwards to do their job and go forward and the rest should sort itself out. Unfortunately our pack is lacking and being dominated by opposition packs who seem to be bigger, harder running and have more mongrel. Getting rid of AFB was a big mistake in my opinion. We also need Fainu back. We will keep struggling if our forwards keep getting dominated. Maybe should also move up in a line instead of waiting for the opposition to come to them.

Spot on Swoop. Line speed non existent until they realised how embarrassing they were playing and started getting off the line in the second half.

 

[XV-1]

also means they can forget the other side of the field because the ball sure as eggs isn't going to that side. Your idea is good but in principle unless there is another ball player on the other side - ie Schu then you can' have both halves on the same side

I am not talking all the time. But sometimes.

And yes, Schuster is a missing link that can provide DCE & Foran more options.

 

[mickqld]

DCE and Foran were awesome 10 -12 years ago. Now they look like yesterday's heroes.

 

[Dunder Mifflin]

Foran has been our best player and he at least knows what's doing when he gets the ball. He needs to take more 5th tackle kicks because dce is in headless chook mode again. He always seems to start this way then come origin time he gets better and by seasons end he comes good. Strange pattern last few seasons. Imho he needs to become our 9 and we play foran and Schuster in the halves. That or we get a frickin 9 and put show to 13 and Jake to 80 minute prop like Haas

 

[Dunder Mifflin]

DCE and Foran were awesome 10 -12 years ago. Now they look like yesterday's heroes.

Foran played his ass off and had some good plays down his edge. Problem is when dce kicks on the 3rd 3 times when we FINALLY get down there relieving any pressure.

Also Forans side in defence is alot stronger than dces side. They are in all sorts out there at the moment

 

[alafua8]

2022 we have had our wish for over 12 months like we wanted in 2016 with these two wonderful play makers in the same team.

Is it working?

Do these two players spend enough time working as a team on the same side of the field? I don't see it very often - why?

At the moment they might as well be on different teams as they don't jump into each others side of the field to help our attack.

Penrith with Cleary and Luai work as a team, on separate sides and the same side.
Why aren't DCE and Foran doing it?

It would certainly take a LOT of pressure off Turbo and give us more options in attack.

Your thoughts please.

We have watched 2021 and 2 rounds this year and in my opinion we are not progressing to the level we need to be to win a GF .Watched this year's 2 games and am surprised at how bad our attack is with our halves been awful .(Yes there is also our errors and missed tackles etc . ) They are the 2 players that are suppose to create scoring opportunities for the rest of the team .They were a bit better last year than watching them in the last 2 weeks .Hope they can show us some improvement in the next couple of weeks as it is not working what they are doing .( 5 hit ups and kick )

 

[maxta]

We won't know how the DCE and Foz combination is rolling till Manly aim up in the forwards.....you could have Lockyer and Johns in 6 and 7 in those first 2 games and would look like average players.

On DCE, I could see the idea of kicking in behind the Roosters up and in defence, but by the 4th time after having minimum possession and on tackle 2 and 3, was frustrating....but the bloke is trying real hard to spark something and he will come good next 2-3 games.
Actually thought Foran straightened an attack going sideways a few times against Roosters and when Manly found some rhythm 2nd half, was much to do with exactly this and if had his old pace, would have made 2 clean line breaks....but in his last 2 seasons imo.

 

[mickqld]

When DCE back flipped and signed that massively overs contract in 2015 it was said that Manly will never win a premiership with him as the leader. How true that has become.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Last week we had 3 or 4 opportunities in attack inside Roosters 20. All opportunities ended up with nothing.

They exclusively stayed their own side. Why? Having 2 great ball players on one side has got to create some doubt in the mind of the defenders?

Jeez your on a warpath for our players lately. Its 2 games into the season against 2 top 4 sides.

Yes we had 3 or 4 opportunities..... 3 or 4! Its not many so if DCE and Foz forget to get together for a try root (dry root - see what I did there) then its not that big a deal yet.

Didn't one of those 3 - 4 times lead to the Tommy dropped ball on the certain try? Its not like we had nothing.

 

[Lyonstomenzies]

I didn’t get to watch the games on TV but I constantly checked the score on the NRL website. The first thing that stood out when looking was the METRES GAINED. Both games after 30 min we had made around half the metres of the Panthers and Roosters.

Halves don’t mater when your forwards are getting owned. Couple this with the fact that Manly has adopted fast attacking wingers not powerful yard takers and it’s not great for field position or defensive fatigue.

We need better props, it’s pretty simple.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The fact that Foran has been considered one of our best players really concerns me. Seems to be a mentality that exists that if a player tries hard he is effective. Not so. Our results against the tops sides in the last two years with the Foran and DCE combination has well and truly established that. Neither is a leader and takes control of a game when we are in trouble. DCE has a propensity of attempting low percentage players when we are in trouble and generally they don't come off and he digs the tired pack into an even deeper hole. Foz doesn't take control either other than tackling he butt off and he is not getting any younger and he isn't getting any quicker and he doesn't look to be troubling the defence or putting players into space. Lest face it he is at the end of his career and well past his best physically. But that doesn't make you competitive against the big boys. It doesn't instill confidence and belief in your pack particularly the younger players that they have someone to lead them out of trouble. Mentally our side is brittle and it doesn't look to me that they believe in the current system and game plans. The pack also needs a fearless and inspiring leader what a shame we didn't go after Dale Finucane.

 

[Marto1970]

yep indeed - Haumole needs to be back in the line - moving up first and sliding second after the ball has gone and yes the gap between he and DCE regularly is huge... I can only guess the inside forwards haven't got in position forcing the Big O to hang around there before trying to move out wider?

A lot of the play the balls Manly player still lying on the ground makes the outside defenders look bad but they have to move in to cover the middle

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

A lot of the play the balls Manly player still lying on the ground makes the outside defenders look bad but they have to move in to cover the middle

yes... maybe not fit enough or tackling technique not great but agree that seems to be part of the problem.

 

[jbb/james]

Regardless of any other factors, this is a question worth asking.

From appearances - and it's only my thoughts - I thought they combined more years ago. That impression may not be accurate, but it's only an impression.

It's not our biggest issue by a stretch, but worth some thoughts.

in years ago, my recollection is that foran ran his side with skivvy and horo while gifty ran the right with lyon.Snake made them all look good. DCE was a surprise packet with very little responsibility and a limited role

as his role has expanded the team has looks less composed and more chooky

foz is running his side. probably his sublime plays makes parker look better. just doesnt get enough action or kicking. i suppose because he kicks better close to the line and we are rarely there

DCe side has crucified sirro( it seems harper is also getting the useless turn under going nowhere ball , suli also who looked like a superstar when he had a game on the right , is making harper look worse each week and oku rarely rarely gets good clean ball and is always having to check his run as DCE overplays the dummies, swerves and shimmies before releasing . in round 1 kikau was getting sweet ball and giving harper a bath and oka was getting ball flat at the line even when we had opportunity. none of this not possible thing

it seems everyone is fat shaming the forwards and some of that is very deserved but if anyone thinks we are going to build the platform to compete against the top sides without the assistance , knowledge and gameplan the halves bring is only being half serious. better halfbacks keep there teams in games when the forward struggle. very interesting listening to cronk talk about halfbacks last night on 360

we often talk about MIGOTY
what about MIPOTY of 2021. the play instead of game

semi final against melb, early shell shocked and down on the scoreboard. our powder puff forwards fight back, gain field position and with the injection of walker a player who actually takes on the line makes deep yardage, we have field position, the storm stretched and DCE rushes up to take a blindside play, a little kick and oku at worst gets us a repeat set. overcook, dummy, dont give it to oku, checks his run again, dce gets cornered, chucks a stupid ball to oku who is forced to kick, it goes dead, valve released, storm are on half way by the time DCE scratches his head on second

teams wilt when you build pressure. our valve is dodgy even if the forwards do the job , ask afb, he has also had stats of 25 minutes and 1 or 2 runs , at manly, So he was soft too then . can we seriously ignore the only common denominators