Coach Seibold thoughts so far.... so good

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Yeah it’s his tactics of wanting the team to shift the ball all the time. They go out there with a mentality to blitz and score tries instead of running hard and tackling hard. It’s on the coach.

Not entirely on the coach. I reckon the spine and some of the leaders have an ego and lack of respect towards some teams. Because it worked in 2021 with a different set of rules, they want to keep trying to go around teams and don't want to build pressure and do the hard stuff. They are stuck on that 2021 blitz mindset which was a whole different ball game and we've honestly been trying to play like that for the last 3 years. We still haven't managed to adapt and balance the gameplan with the 6 again rule patched up even in the 3rd season with it.
 
In my opinion, that was a coached loss. This is likely going to stir up a few people after just two losses, but there were telltale signs that was Seibold's loss, not the team's.

How can you tell?

When you're getting repeat sets on the goaline of one of the worst defensive teams in the comp, and you're looking completely like the Blues in Origin 2 last year. Looking seemingly for individual efforts to get you tries, with absolutely no shape at all. Brooks, DCE, Turbo, Koula, Garrick, etc etc you should have no problem at all scoring points, if you have some sort of attacking structure.

I don't think I saw a decoy in attack until Haumole's try in the last five minutes, and I can bet on it that it wasn't Seibold that called for that, it was DCE. I'm remembering how Seibold was said to be completely overcomplicating things at the Broncos, and I can guarantee you the same is occuring here. Individual efforts alone seem to be getting us tries, and masking an attacking system that is completely confused.
I kind of sensed that a bit yesterday too but how long do the playmakers leave it until they change things on the run?

It was noticeable to me ( l lost count) that the play on the left edge was short balls at the line from Brooks to Burbo running a crash line.

I can't recall them running that same play but going out the back to Koula so Bird & co really have any defensive decisions to make, he was never having to think about sliding out a touch at all.

But we never ran that play on the right edge with Guac who is way more damaging than Burbo?

It seemed they were of the same mindset as the commentators...that it would eventually happen and then we'd take over.

Is it a case of what used to happen the Barrett years, once the players say "this ain't working, let's try x,y & z" then we looked better or at least went down swinging.

I kind like Seibs but yesterday it seemed there was, well, not much going on.
Yes unhappy hands from a few player's didn't really help either.
 
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It seems obvious to me, and has done since the Panthers game last year when we went out and "played footy", and got sort of close to the Panthers for 40 minutes or so, that we are happy to just try and outscore any opposition.

And given that our goal line defence, especially around DCE and Garrick, is abysmally bad, this theory may actually need to hold some water.

I will say though, only one team in living memory has won the comp in this style (Tigers 05), so I don't like the chances of us repeating that feat with our current mindset.

We have the players to score mountains of points, but you still gotta dominate the middle, and at least get an even % of possession to give yourself a chance......something we didn't do well yesterday at all.
 
It seems obvious to me, and has done since the Panthers game last year when we went out and "played footy", and got sort of close to the Panthers for 40 minutes or so, that we are happy to just try and outscore any opposition.

And given that our goal line defence, especially around DCE and Garrick, is abysmally bad, this theory may actually need to hold some water.

I will say though, only one team in living memory has won the comp in this style (Tigers 05), so I don't like the chances of us repeating that feat with our current mindset.

We have the players to score mountains of points, but you still gotta dominate the middle, and at least get an even % of possession to give yourself a chance......something we didn't do well yesterday at all.
To be fair to Garrick,the DCE/ Olakau’atu edge has long been a problem,no matter who is playing in the centres
 
Not entirely on the coach. I reckon the spine and some of the leaders have an ego and lack of respect towards some teams. Because it worked in 2021 with a different set of rules, they want to keep trying to go around teams and don't want to build pressure and do the hard stuff. They are stuck on that 2021 blitz mindset which was a whole different ball game and we've honestly been trying to play like that for the last 3 years. We still haven't managed to adapt and balance the gameplan with the 6 again rule patched up even in the 3rd season with it.
I take your point but I think there is a degree of enabling going on. Bennett would never put up that crap. Seibs has basically indicated it’s a tactic. Concerning.

I do like the idea of using the ball, it just needs to be tempered with common sense. It was bizarre how we were making inroads up the middle through Paseka, Sipley and Aloiai. The ruck would be in tatters and we’d shift the ball to the edge, away from the space in the middle. If we’d played through them, I reckon we could have scored 3-4 tries.
 
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In my opinion, that was a coached loss. This is likely going to stir up a few people after just two losses, but there were telltale signs that was Seibold's loss, not the team's.

How can you tell?

When you're getting repeat sets on the goaline of one of the worst defensive teams in the comp, and you're looking completely like the Blues in Origin 2 last year. Looking seemingly for individual efforts to get you tries, with absolutely no shape at all. Brooks, DCE, Turbo, Koula, Garrick, etc etc you should have no problem at all scoring points, if you have some sort of attacking structure.

I don't think I saw a decoy in attack until Haumole's try in the last five minutes, and I can bet on it that it wasn't Seibold that called for that, it was DCE. I'm remembering how Seibold was said to be completely overcomplicating things at the Broncos, and I can guarantee you the same is occuring here. Individual efforts alone seem to be getting us tries, and masking an attacking system that is completely confused.

I think the biggest symptom is Schuster. The fact is, Hasler was fine with him being the 5/8 in 2023. In fact, in 2021, Schuster looked really good as a 5/8 under Hasler, and he looked alright in early 2023 too, before, what it seemed to be, getting the skill coached out of him. I'm talking about his offence here, his defence is a different story.

Now, you could say that was before every other team figured out how to shut him down in offence, and that is true in some regards, but the fact is that Seibold said that he was looking at Brooks in MAY last year. If he was doing that, he was looking before, even earlier in the season. That tells me, he's a coach unwilling to put in the same effort on players like Schuster, and improve them no matter how hard, as opposed to Hasler. Hasler was a micromanager. He was dedicated and committed. Calling people at 3am in the night to talk about some incredible game plan idea he thought about in bed, to win now, no matter the excuse (this story
is true).

Seibold looks like he's always looking towards winning in the future than winning now, as if he's given up on winning now. Think about the injury ravaged stretch in 2022 (before Pride) and 2023. Des somehow found a way to win against Melbourne. We got smashed by a Parramatta side without Mitchell Moses, or anyone really. Why put in effort in as a player, when the coach won't put effort into you, and give up on you for the rest of the year?

Add to that Schuster saying last year that he "doesn't listen to the coaches very much". Is that a symptom of his laziness, or of Seibold's overcomplications, or both? Something tells me it's both.

That first half was like we were taking right off from the end of the Eels game, but without the obstructions or dodgy penalities. That was all us. What were we doing for a week? The exact same problems were there.

If we don't make the finals, it's rebuild time. The fact is, if we don't make the finals, DCE won't consider an extension and will retire next year (or this year potentially). What do we do from there? Seibold is clearly going for results now, cop the consequences later. Haumole until 2031, Paulo for three years (???), Brooks for 4 years (???), and Schuster for 4 years (???). Seemingly just to keep them here for his next two years that he is signed for. If we want any sort of premiership while Tom and Jake are still here, given the lack of replacement options for DCE, we need to win now. I can't see that happening under Seibold.

I feel like we'll be looking back in 10 years, looking at the team lists from the Barrett and Seibold years, seeing DCE, Tom, and Jake on them, and wondering; what the hell went wrong? Scott Penn has to have the worst record of coaching decisions I've ever seen. Sacks Tooves with a winning record of 57%, hires Barrett, sacks Barrett for Des, after getting sacked by the Dogs (accidental masterstroke), fires Des for something that was clearly not his fault, and hires the man that was sacked by Darius Boyd, of all people. And if you don't believe Des was good, he was the only one of these coaches to have a strong winning record, until the pride jersey, which took his winning record in his second stint to 49%. Moan all you want, you don't clean out an entire football club, CEO, Coach, and all, without there being massive problems beyond said coach. Even with 49%, compared to Seibold and Barrett, that's incredible. And under Hasler, that was with an objectively tight salary cap.

Why do you think Seibold has done such "incredible" recruitment that we haven't seen in years? DCE's salary has dropped significantly, and the cap has increased. Des would've been recruiting too.

I was holding off on Seibold this year, on paper he made great changes and I was optimistic, but boom, straight back to our worst last year. To me, unless something dramatic changes, this performance is indicative, 100%, of how we will go this year. And I'm normally an optimist on Manly, but I'm sick of this club sticking by awful decisions, again and again.

Well said. Short term Spoonbold that doesn't want to put the hard yards in actually coaching players and making them better.

He would rather buy developed players and hope they buy into his holistic bs.

At the bunnies he took over an established team and did well. Goes to the Broncos where he had a nursery of young amazing talent. DID ZERO. The worst coach the Broncos ever had. Coached them to a spoon for christ sake.

Doing the same crap at Manly where he is not developing young players.

I hope his short money ball approach works for Manly’s sake, but I am afraid we will end up bring the next Titans.
 
Imagine how good Manly would be with Bennett in 2024. Premiers with the team we have.

@sackspoonbold4bennet.
I’m not anti Seibs, and I’m willing to give him a decent run this season to see what he can build…. That said, I would happily welcome Bennett if the opportunity arose
 
I would have like to see him spraying the team at half time (not sure he has a spray in him to be honest), however instead DCE was doing the talking...

He talks a lot about "consistency" & the gap between the best & worst and bringing "your weapons"...... time for some home truths during the week!!
 
Always said Seibold can’t coach and to think flanigan said Manly could win the premiership this year. We will be lucky to make top Ten
 
I think it’s pretty clear now that Flanno was taking the piss and/or setting us up for a loss against his team. And we walked right into it.
Flanno is street smart
He is a Cunning Crow
He would try anything to win and at any cost which cost him his head coach job for a while
I would say he is more hard Edge than Seibold
Seibold seems so serene
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Coaching can be as easy or complicated as you want to make it. I get the impression Seibold tends to over complicate it. All teams are trying to do the same thing; start fast and gain the ascendancy. After that, it’s about minimizing errors whilst capitalizing on your opponent’s mistakes.
In the first couple of games, we saw some semblance of a plan to attack but not much on defense. Then in the last 2 games, when the opposition is in control, it’s like they don’t have a plan to stop the rot and get back to parity. That’s down to coaching. We need a plan B for when things go against us.
Having said that, I think the recruitment of Brooks is looking very promising. I wasn’t sure how it would go but even in a badly beaten team, he kept trying. So that’s a positive.
 
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Wow, two weeks ago Seibs was doing really well, and now it's time to get rid of him?

Like most, yesterday was one of the worst games I have ever seen Manly play.

Is that on the coach? Maybe.....

But also, I can't imagine at any stage this week Seibold would have taken the Dragons lightly.

I would put most of the blame on the players for yesterday. They didn't turn up mentally. They weren't prepared to do the harder things to win the game. and scoring first was probably a bad thing as well. The thought was that they would just roll through them.

And I suspect the Vegas part of it has been tough for all of the teams that went. It was a finals preparation in game one and there is bound to be a letdown.

Let's hope for Manly it only lasts a week.
 

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