Check out the ladder

[Seagles68]

DCE ????
Listen feathered friend ...
The Durable DCE has not had a sick day off since he had the Measles when he was a kid .

Let's hope he doesn't pick up a neck strain now - that could mean a long stretch.

 

[Ryan]

Oh please, you said from pride gate onwards, but now you want to include Turbo and Saab and have Shuster at 5/8 etc etc etc.

As I said, we aren't going great but throwing in that period with a squad in turmoil and a busted team is not strengthening your point, it is devaluing it.

Fair enough. Let's just pretend all the players that were injured don't exist and weren't part of the squad. Maybe they did rehab and train in Kuwait?

The squads has absolutely nominal changes.

But maybe you're right, and all the sports journalists, coaches and players who've stated our roster (top 25-30) has been relatively consistent are all wrong.

 

[Disco]

Fair enough. Let's just pretend all the players that were injured don't exist and weren't part of the squad. Maybe they did rehab and train in Kuwait?

The squads has absolutely nominal changes.

But maybe you're right, and all the sports journalists, coaches and players who've stated our roster (top 25-30) has been relatively consistent are all wrong.

What are you talking about?

All I stated was including the last 6 games of last year (post pride gate) whilst discussing this years team is creating a false equivalence as the team, coaching staff and situation FROM THE LAST 6 ROUNDS OF LAST YEAR to now are different.

Not saying better now
Not saying worse now
Not saying our roster is strong
Not saying our roster it week.

Simply stating the LAST 6 ROUNDS of last year are not indicative of anything in this season.

 

[Eagle 1]

We are currently in a dog fight for bottom 4.

IF Turbo or DCE pick up a(nother) major injury we will fight it out for the spoon.

Top 8 is a pipedream and would require all of players fit and firing for the remainder of the season.

The ladder is tight as, Cowboys at second last are only 4 points of 8th. Why are we panicking at the half way point....get a grip all..

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Playing in the south of France.

Half his luck!

I was glad he got an NRL start with us. Sure, he was out of his depth. But if he was willing to put on the jersey and give it a go, I was happy to have him. Somewhat ironically, the display that bits-and-pieces team put on that night was my proudest moment as a Manly supporter in 2022.

 

[Ryan]

What are you talking about?

All I stated was including the last 6 games of last year (post pride gate) whilst discussing this years team is creating a false equivalence as the team, coaching staff and situation FROM THE LAST 6 ROUNDS OF LAST YEAR to now are different.

Not saying better now
Not saying worse now
Not saying our roster is strong
Not saying our roster it week.

Simply stating the LAST 6 ROUNDS of last year are not indicative of anything in this season.

And I disagree. You're implying players 18-30 (in last year's case 31-32 with dispensation) won't be relied upon again in the event of torrid injury or heaven forbid another player revolt.

My comment is the top 30 for us is relatively unchanged, particularly comparatively speaking versus the rest of the league (most improved), so I sure as bloody CAN talk about the clubs form since jersey gate, and frankly, it's been insipid.

For mine, it's a mixture of ****house recruitment, terrible culture, run of injuries, and terribly slow, overweight and unfit players, who refuse to all pull in the same direction.

Until we acquire some actual character (think Kennedy, Kite, Lyon & others) nothing will change. I've said it before, we could have Bennett / Bellamy joint head coaches with Cleary running the water, and they still couldn't motivate these lumps.

Nothing has changed since that point last season. 5 wins Disco. FIVE. In 19 !! 23% odd win rate over 20 odd games dude. Horrible. Can't honestly believe you're even trying to polish that one.

 

[Disco]

And I disagree. You're implying players 18-30 (in last year's case 31-32 with dispensation) won't be relied upon again in the event of torrid injury or heaven forbid another player revolt.

My comment is the top 30 for us is relatively unchanged, particularly comparatively speaking versus the rest of the league (most improved), so I sure as bloody CAN talk about the clubs form since jersey gate, and frankly, it's been insipid.

For mine, it's a mixture of ****house recruitment, terrible culture, run of injuries, and terribly slow, overweight and unfit players, who refuse to all pull in the same direction.

Until we acquire some actual character (think Kennedy, Kite, Lyon & others) nothing will change. I've said it before, we could have Bennett / Bellamy joint head coaches with Cleary running the water, and they still couldn't motivate these lumps.

Nothing has changed since that point last season. 5 wins Disco. FIVE. In 19 !! 23% odd win rate over 20 odd games dude. Horrible. Can't honestly believe you're even trying to polish that one.

Not trying to polish anything.

Simply saying a that the team over that 6 game stretch including Foran, Taupau, Walker, Davey, Smalley, Pico, De Luis, Roumanos. Schuster as a bench forward, Bully as an edge with Des, Monas and Randall coaching is not indicative of anything atm.

Pretty straight forward.

But hey, I've not the energy or inclination to keep this going. We disagree.

 

[Ryan]

Not trying to polish anything.

Simply saying a that the team over that 6 game stretch including Foran, Taupau, Walker, Davey, Smalley, Pico, De Luis, Roumanos. Schuster as a bench forward, Bully as an edge with Des, Monas and Randall coaching is not indicative of anything atm.

Pretty straight forward.

But hey, I've not the energy or inclination to keep this going. We disagree.

And at the moment we are sporting players like Aaron Woods, Ben Condon, Cooper Johns, Jake Arthur, Kaeo Weekes and others. Morgan Boyle will feature shortly.

That's what a top 30 is.

And our top 30 is sub par in comparison to almost every other in the league, and that's due to horrific recruitment, and a bit of a ****house attitude.

Secondly, Toms just had a Cat 1 HIA in origin, so we'd better hope these guys who got pounded by the Knights can lift against teams much better than the Knights !

I think we need another 3 wins to avoid the spoon. That's my benchmark and expectation. Not sure on current form, who we actually best though.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

I think the 2 points given for the bye are there to fool the mug punters into an illusion of what the ladder doesn't really represent. I think this suits sports betting companies to a tee.

 

[Disco]

I think the 2 points given for the bye are there to fool the mug punters into an illusion of what the ladder doesn't really represent. I think this suits sports betting companies to a tee.

A lot of talk about how the bye points skews the ladder but it really doesnt too much.

Sure you get 2 extra points, but on the flipside if you don't get 2 points you are disadvantaged by have had less opportunities to gain points.....basically never way is perfect but it doesnt really effect much.

To illustrate, the best way to get an accurate ladder is to remove the bye points and then divide competition points by games played.

So for example, the Panthers are on 18 points but 4 of that is from byes. So they have 14 points from 11 games at 1.27 competition points per game played.

So with that in mind lets look at a points per game ladder compared to there current position (attached for reference)

1.Broncos 1.38ppg (3rd)
2.Panthers 1.27 (1st)
3.Sharks 1.27 (2nd)
4.Storm 1.27 (4th)
5.Rabbitohs 1.23 (5th)
6.Dolphins 1.17 (6th)
7.Raiders 1.17 (7th)
8.Warriors 1 (8th)
9.Manly 0.92 (11th)
10.Knights 0.92 (12th)
11.Parra 0.92 (13th)
12.Titans 0.91 (9th)
13.Roosters 0.91 (10th)
14. Bulldogs 0.83 (14th)
15.Cowboys 0.77 (16th)
16.Tigers 0.55 (15th)
17.Dragons 0.5 (17th)

So Broncos go from equal first to outright.

Titans and Roosters drop a few spots but you are talking .1 difference and then Tigers drop a spot.

Not a huge difference.

 

[Will on the hill]

A lot of talk about how the bye points skews the ladder but it really doesnt too much.

Sure you get 2 extra points, but on the flipside if you don't get 2 points you are disadvantaged by have had less opportunities to gain points.....basically never way is perfect but it doesnt really effect much.

To illustrate, the best way to get an accurate ladder is to remove the bye points and then divide competition points by games played.

So for example, the Panthers are on 18 points but 4 of that is from byes. So they have 14 points from 11 games at 1.27 competition points per game played.

So with that in mind lets look at a points per game ladder compared to there current position (attached for reference)

1.Broncos 1.38ppg (3rd)
2.Panthers 1.27 (1st)
3.Sharks 1.27 (2nd)
4.Storm 1.27 (4th)
5.Rabbitohs 1.23 (5th)
6.Dolphins 1.17 (6th)
7.Raiders 1.17 (7th)
8.Warriors 1 (8th)
9.Manly 0.92 (11th)
10.Knights 0.92 (12th)
11.Parra 0.92 (13th)
12.Titans 0.91 (9th)
13.Roosters 0.91 (10th)
14. Bulldogs 0.83 (14th)
15.Cowboys 0.77 (16th)
16.Tigers 0.55 (15th)
17.Dragons 0.5 (17th)

So Broncos go from equal first to outright.

Titans and Roosters drop a few spots but you are talking .1 difference and then Tigers drop a spot.

Not a huge difference.

Only a small difference but it is a more accurate reflection of how teams are going. W/L % is basically the same thing but makes for easier comparison of teams.

 

[Go manly]

A lot of talk about how the bye points skews the ladder but it really doesnt too much.

Sure you get 2 extra points, but on the flipside if you don't get 2 points you are disadvantaged by have had less opportunities to gain points.....basically never way is perfect but it doesnt really effect much.

To illustrate, the best way to get an accurate ladder is to remove the bye points and then divide competition points by games played.

So for example, the Panthers are on 18 points but 4 of that is from byes. So they have 14 points from 11 games at 1.27 competition points per game played.

So with that in mind lets look at a points per game ladder compared to there current position (attached for reference)

1.Broncos 1.38ppg (3rd)
2.Panthers 1.27 (1st)
3.Sharks 1.27 (2nd)
4.Storm 1.27 (4th)
5.Rabbitohs 1.23 (5th)
6.Dolphins 1.17 (6th)
7.Raiders 1.17 (7th)
8.Warriors 1 (8th)
9.Manly 0.92 (11th)
10.Knights 0.92 (12th)
11.Parra 0.92 (13th)
12.Titans 0.91 (9th)
13.Roosters 0.91 (10th)
14. Bulldogs 0.83 (14th)
15.Cowboys 0.77 (16th)
16.Tigers 0.55 (15th)
17.Dragons 0.5 (17th)

So Broncos go from equal first to outright.

Titans and Roosters drop a few spots but you are talking .1 difference and then Tigers drop a spot.

Not a huge difference.

Batter batter batter
It works
Good call

 

[Jerry1]

Results driven business...

 

[JenEagle]

Good summation mate. Tough / harsh, but honestly fair and realistic.

Yes very hard to argue with this. It’s not because we are not good enough to win five or more games. We could be so good. We just struggle with momentum. We always have so many injuries or players out of form or we just can’t seem to gel or we get crazy ref decisions like we had against souths and last week.

Then we also don’t help ourselves by drop balls, giving away penalties etc.

Very frustrating

 

[Hotspur2014]

And I disagree. You're implying players 18-30 (in last year's case 31-32 with dispensation) won't be relied upon again in the event of torrid injury or heaven forbid another player revolt.

My comment is the top 30 for us is relatively unchanged, particularly comparatively speaking versus the rest of the league (most improved), so I sure as bloody CAN talk about the clubs form since jersey gate, and frankly, it's been insipid.

For mine, it's a mixture of ****house recruitment, terrible culture, run of injuries, and terribly slow, overweight and unfit players, who refuse to all pull in the same direction.

Until we acquire some actual character (think Kennedy, Kite, Lyon & others) nothing will change. I've said it before, we could have Bennett / Bellamy joint head coaches with Cleary running the water, and they still couldn't motivate these lumps.

Nothing has changed since that point last season. 5 wins Disco. FIVE. In 19 !! 23% odd win rate over 20 odd games dude. Horrible. Can't honestly believe you're even trying to polish that one.

As the old saying goes “You can’t polish a turd”

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

As the old saying goes “You can’t polish a turd”

You can say that again. lol

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

As the old saying goes “You can’t polish a turd”

Not quite true. Put it in the fridge and slap a coat of lacquer on it, and you're good to go. And at this stage I'd probably settle for a coat of lacquer for this team…

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Different team? Let's see, full strength how many different players we have from last season?

1. Turbo (same)
2. Saab (same)
3. Koula (same)
4. Parker (same)
5. Garrick (same)
6. Schuster (same)
7. DCE (same)
8. Jake (same)
9. Croker (same)
10. Paseka (same)
11. Olakau'atu (same)
12. Tuilagi (NEW)
13. Aloiai (same)

14. Lawton (same)
15. Keppie (same)
16. Burbo (same)
17. Bullemor (same)

I mean, one IS different - I guess. I spoke about attitude, culture and the like. Given the nominal turnover here, particularly with key players, I don't see much change.

18. Sipley (same)
19. Weekes (same)
20. Tuipulotu (same)
21. Vaega (same)
22. Harper (same)
23. Boyle (same)
24. Fainu (same)
25. GCKT (same)
26. Forget who.
27. Arthur (New) - been here 1 game
28. Johns (New)
29. Woods (New) - but has been in BT
30. Condon (New) - but has been in BT

Given the above, how can you suggest the team or anything is different?.It's the same crap. Players who look like they are already on the beach. Complete lack of effort. I'd actually suggest with the small amount of player turnover, quality wise we've regressed.

I'm not sure if I'm going to agree or disagree with you yet mate.
I sort feel like you are right in that it's pretty well the same team as the end of last year just with our full squad pretty well available.
This makes me think we should go a lot better but at the same time I honestly don't think Seibold and Flanno have done diddly squat to improve the squad overall.
Perhaps DCE is playing better. Turbo is sort of the same as 22. Koula has not taken the big step we were all expecting. Shoe is rocks and diamonds. Paseka is better. Croker is still ordinary.
I think we will be lucky to make the 8 given how close the comp is. We will need one hell of a run to make it.
Still don't know if I agree or not so I'm calling myself a Draw.

 

[davohan123]

Tom Trbojevic cleared to play against Dolphins

Manly Warringah Sea Eagles have today been given clearance from the NRL to play full-back Tom Trbojevic against the Dolphins at 4 Pines Park on Friday night.

www.seaeagles.com.au

 

[manlyfan76]