A clean out is not the answer

[The better Robbo]

Levi was a better defender than Cust @The better Robbo... I'd call Cade a speed hump but at least speed humps slow you down...

Levi was an average hooker but he had lengths on what we are trying to plug the gap with imo...

ZDC must be considered pretty average to have these blokes in front of him...

Who said anything about Cust? I've always said Croker should start 20 mins and then bring on Cust for that very reason.

 

[frank stokes]

Who said anything about Cust? I've always said Croker should start 20 mins and then bring on Cust for that very reason.

Was an opinion on Levi champion...

I rate him as a better hooker than Croker except for defence and a better defender than Cust but inferior in attack...

I have no idea why you would not have kept Levi on the minimum wage he was on...

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

Getting rid of levi and letting croker be our starting hooker just shows Des has lost it.. walker at fb when he's been training outside of Foran all of season suggests he is suffering from ptsd. Continually selecting suli and Parker.... sigh!

 

[Snake]

Levi and defending well should never be mentioned in the same sentence. Levi was pooh, had a bit more of a running game then Croker but his decision making was awful and couldn't tackle my grandma.

Defence was one of the reasons Levi was let go. He was awful last year. He tackles too high for 9. You watch the good 9s are around the legs while the big boppers take the top. Levi was constantly swatted away last year going too high on opposition forwards.

 

[Franko]

I had a great view of that from my seat in the St Merge members area at ground level on half way ("woops, my ticket said J21, I must have the wrong area") and that was terrible structure and lack of trust... DCE came in because he didn't trust his inside man and Suli stayed planted which left a whole large enough to drive a bus through for Sims....

In the words of the Letterkenny Shamrocks coach...

"IT WAS F*CKING EMBARRASSING"

Defending like that, we ain't ever gonna get the W bois....

Doesn’t matter how it happened those blokes are ****, that’s why it happended

 

[frank stokes]

Dani Levi tackling stats last year...
R1...3 missed tackles from 31 completed tackles @ 91% tackling efficiency
R2...3/32 86% Rorters
R3...2/52 96.3%
R4...5/25 75%
R5...3/30 90.9%
R6...0/41 95.5%
R7...6/33 84.6%
R8...2/34 89.5%
R9...2/36 94.7% St George
R10...3/30 85.7%
R11...2/34 89.5%
R12...6/51 87.9%
R13...1/25 96.2% in 51 min - replaced by Croker 2/18 90% in 29min
R14... 2/24 85.7% in 40 min replaced - replaced by Croker 2/25 83.7% in 40 min
R15... 2/41 93.2% in 46 min - replaced by Croker 2/23 82.1% in 34 min (Souths)
R16... 1/23 85.5% in 40 min - replaced by Croker 0/24 92.3% in 40 min
R17... 3/22 78.6% in 61 min
R18... 0/29 96.7% in 56 min - Croker 0/26 100% in 36min as starting hooker
R19... 0/28 93.3%
R20... 1/42 91.3%

Levi made 689 tackles at an average of 34.44 per game (with 6 games of 61 min or less) and averaged 2.35 missed tackles per game - Croker in 3 games this year (all 80 min) is averaging 35 tackles with 3 missed tackles...

Levi made fewer or the same missed tackles and a higher tackling efficiency in 3 of the 4 games where they shared the hooking duties in 2020...

Levi also had better tackling stats against 2 of the 3 clubs that Croker has played this year...

Croker 2021
5/34 82.9% Rorters
2/40 95.2% Souths
2/31 91.2% St George

I would say that those stats show...
1. Levi was a more active defender at 9
2. Croker misses as many if not more tackles at 9
3. Croker is generally a less effective tackler than Levi

...couple this with Levi being a better distributor and more effective at running from dummy half and it is just highlights how strange it is that Des would rather try to make a 9 out of Croker than retain a specialist 9 on minimum wage...

 

[40 years an eagle]

Des would rather try to make a 9 out of Croker than retain a specialist 9 on minimum wage...

Levi was on nowhere near "minimum wage". The Knights paid a LOT of his freight last year so he probably COST us around "minimum wage" but to renew him for 2021 would probably have cost us 200-250k. With Cust and Croker already signed for this year I guess the be decided to save the Levi money.
I have a sneaking suspicion that our cap plus available "outside monies" is a LOT tighter than we even suspected.

We really NEED to offload at least DCE and Marty. I would also be cutting Croker, Parker, Jetski, Boyle, Horhay, Suli and Sirro.

 

[frank stokes]

Levi was on nowhere near "minimum wage". The Knights paid a LOT of his freight last year so he probably COST us around "minimum wage" but to renew him for 2021 would probably have cost us 200-250k. With Cust and Croker already signed for this year I guess the be decided to save the Levi money.
I have a sneaking suspicion that our cap plus available "outside monies" is a LOT tighter than we even suspected.

We really NEED to offload at least DCE and Marty. I would also be cutting Croker, Parker, Jetski, Boyle, Horhay, Suli and Sirro.

Levi does not have a job right now so I doubt we would have had to pay 250k to retain him...

Maybe we are that tight but we extended a few contracts that we probs didn't need to also...

 

[joeboy]

The other thing to remember is that very little of what happens on a football field, happens in isolation.

take the Duffy try in the first half for example. It was really poor defence but did it happen because Daly and/or Jestski forgot how to tackle? Did it happen because the defensive structures are poor? More than likely it happened because our minds were on the frustration of having so much ball, only to come up with nothing. That’s why you see so many sides score straight after defending their line for repeat sets...it’s a mental thing.

it’s the same principal with fitness. Someone will comment on our perceived lack of fitness but polish on the end of sets is required to help the forwards stay fresh in the middle (repeat sets, finding grass with yardage kicks, etc). It all has a flow on effect. Our 5th tackle options haven’t been good enough and the lack of execution is largely down to the fact that everything is off the back of slow play-the-balls because our forwards are just getting the ball one off the ruck and running into brick walls. All halves look bad playing off slow ruck speed. We need someone to help em over the advantage line and it ain’t happening.

The point of my post is that most problems are from a flow on effect. Outside of Parker’s **** hands and Croker’s inability to play an effective hand at 9, the rest is a byproduct of something else.

I take your point but it all just sounds like woeful coaching to me.

Football is a game built in fundamentals, and our game plan is devoid of playing to them

We have no variation, little structure and vary little in the way of tactics.

Why is the coaching so bad? And why have we not learnt anything from last year.

The lack of coaching, application and attention to detail to me, is the real issue

 

[40 years an eagle]

Levi does not have a job right now so I doubt we would have had to pay 250k to retain him...

Maybe we are that tight but we extended a few contracts that we probs didn't need to also...

Levi is playing for Norths Devils in the Intrust Super Cup. Yeah, he may have come a lot cheaper than the 200-250k range but i'm guessing we don't have even 150k because we are paying Croker and Cust for 2021 anyways. I can't understand the Cust extension last year...it doesn't make any sense to me unless it is for minimum wage. Cust was extended LAST year and I can't think of any other extensions we have made that were poor choices...maybe Garrick in hindsight.

And I forgot to add Walker to the offload list.

 

[Budgie]

Levi is playing for Norths Devils in the Intrust Super Cup. Yeah, he may have come a lot cheaper than the 200-250k range but i'm guessing we don't have even 150k because we are paying Croker and Cust for 2021 anyways. I can't understand the Cust extension last year...it doesn't make any sense to me unless it is for minimum wage. Cust was extended LAST year and I can't think of any other extensions we have made that were poor choices...maybe Garrick in hindsight.

And I forgot to add Walker to the offload list.

I can’t believe how much discussion there has been over the years re Croker v Cust. They’re both crap!
A Manly team without Croker and Cust is something I dream of.

 

[frank stokes]

Levi is playing for Norths Devils in the Intrust Super Cup. Yeah, he may have come a lot cheaper than the 200-250k range but i'm guessing we don't have even 150k because we are paying Croker and Cust for 2021 anyways. I can't understand the Cust extension last year...it doesn't make any sense to me unless it is for minimum wage. Cust was extended LAST year and I can't think of any other extensions we have made that were poor choices...maybe Garrick in hindsight.

And I forgot to add Walker to the offload list.

Garrick is a good example...

My point is that we had a cheap 9 there doing a job for low wage but Des decided he could make a back-up to Fainu out of Croker - despite the evidence indicating last year that it would not work.

We endured 6 months of Trent trying to turn Lachlan into a first string 6 and now we are going to enjoy 6 months of Des doing the same at 9...

reminds me of a racehorse my mate bought shares in many moons ago... looked like a superstar on the training track and in trials but couldn't go a yard when under race pressure... that horse, ironically named 'Possibly', cost us a bloody fortune...

 

[Eagles4Life]

A cleanout is the only answer. Anything else is just window dressing.

 

[Franko]

Levi does not have a job right now so I doubt we would have had to pay 250k to retain him...

Maybe we are that tight but we extended a few contracts that we probs didn't need to also...

levi wanted 250k hahah now he is playing park footy on nothing...He should have taken the minimum contract money

 

[Franko]

A cleanout is the only answer. Anything else is just window dressing.

agree mate, there is probably 10 or so of the 30 that needs gone, unfortunately those 10 are in the starting 17

 

[Rafferty]

“ You get what you pay for”

Well we haven’t from cherry.
sorry couldn’t help myself.

 

[Snake]

Dani Levi tackling stats last year...
R1...3 missed tackles from 31 completed tackles @ 91% tackling efficiency
R2...3/32 86% Rorters
R3...2/52 96.3%
R4...5/25 75%
R5...3/30 90.9%
R6...0/41 95.5%
R7...6/33 84.6%
R8...2/34 89.5%
R9...2/36 94.7% St George
R10...3/30 85.7%
R11...2/34 89.5%
R12...6/51 87.9%
R13...1/25 96.2% in 51 min - replaced by Croker 2/18 90% in 29min
R14... 2/24 85.7% in 40 min replaced - replaced by Croker 2/25 83.7% in 40 min
R15... 2/41 93.2% in 46 min - replaced by Croker 2/23 82.1% in 34 min (Souths)
R16... 1/23 85.5% in 40 min - replaced by Croker 0/24 92.3% in 40 min
R17... 3/22 78.6% in 61 min
R18... 0/29 96.7% in 56 min - Croker 0/26 100% in 36min as starting hooker
R19... 0/28 93.3%
R20... 1/42 91.3%

Levi made 689 tackles at an average of 34.44 per game (with 6 games of 61 min or less) and averaged 2.35 missed tackles per game - Croker in 3 games this year (all 80 min) is averaging 35 tackles with 3 missed tackles...

Levi made fewer or the same missed tackles and a higher tackling efficiency in 3 of the 4 games where they shared the hooking duties in 2020...

Levi also had better tackling stats against 2 of the 3 clubs that Croker has played this year...

Croker 2021
5/34 82.9% Rorters
2/40 95.2% Souths
2/31 91.2% St George

I would say that those stats show...
1. Levi was a more active defender at 9
2. Croker misses as many if not more tackles at 9
3. Croker is generally a less effective tackler than Levi

...couple this with Levi being a better distributor and more effective at running from dummy half and it is just highlights how strange it is that Des would rather try to make a 9 out of Croker than retain a specialist 9 on minimum wage...

There’s a couple of things wrong with this.
1. Danny Levi is a hooker, Croker is masquerading as one...so the logic that Levi is a good defender because he has almost identical (very very marginally better) statistics to Croker is hardly a strong argument.
2. Missed tackle stats do not tell you whether the tackle was effective and/or dominant.
I watched Levi closely last year and when you compare his work in the middle to Koroisau, it’s easy to see why we leaked points last year and why Levi is playing park footy.
In saying that, I would prefer he be here in front of Croker but the idea that he is a good defender is misleading IMO.

 

[frank stokes]

There’s a couple of things wrong with this.
1. Danny Levi is a hooker, Croker is masquerading as one...so the logic that Levi is a good defender because he has almost identical (very very marginally better) statistics to Croker is hardly a strong argument.
2. Missed tackle stats do not tell you whether the tackle was effective and/or dominant.
I watched Levi closely last year and when you compare his work in the middle to Koroisau, it’s easy to see why we leaked points last year and why Levi is playing park footy.
In saying that, I would prefer he be here in front of Croker but the idea that he is a good defender is misleading IMO.

Hey @Snake

1. Exactly - Levi is a hooker (but Des would rather try to plug in a 6)... Levi tackles more often, provides better service and is a threat from close range because it is a role he knows and has played most of his career. I did not include any of the games where Croker did not play hooker because it is a completely different role.

2. That is why I included the tackle efficiency stat which is not a measurement of missed tackles from tackles made but considers how many times the tackle actually was effected - maybe Levi missed some critical ones (i don't know) but his efficiency stats show he is at least as good (i would say better actually) than Croker (when Croker plays 9)

3. I am sure as sh1t not comparing either to Api who is a God compared to these blokes

My point was always that Levi performed a critical role at minimal cost that I personally think Des is a fool to think he can just get anyone to do... jmo...

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I still think a partial clean out is necessary.

There’s a small group in our roster that are ****ing useless and will still be ****ing useless next year and the year after.

 

[frank stokes]

I still think a partial clean out is necessary.

There’s a small group in our roster that are ****ing useless and will still be ****ing useless next year and the year after.

We need a 'nail on the head' emoji for comments like this...