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28 man squad in 2021

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,167
Turbo's time out has only been from injuries playing his guts out .Walker has had a good deal of time off from stupidity.
Cant compare.
Walker has been out several times at Manly for injuries. Only once, whilst at Manly, for what you call 'stupidity'. And that 'stupidity' wasn't the reason he was not playing, it was the No Fault policy and it needs to be noted the matter was dismissed by the court. What happened on that day is really unknown to us and should not be flavoured up into something that should be now threatening his career. Continuing to look down on him years later, especially for something unrelated to his career is like kicking a dog over and again because one day in the past it defecated on your best shirt.. Leave it alone. This is about football. If you're not happy with his performance on the field, that's fine, and now should be the only determining factor..
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,167

40, its fine that you disagree with me, as long as it is to do performance on the field and not other factors. We each have our perspective and vive la difference. In the end it wont make much difference either way because the Sea Eagles recruitment people and Des will be the only deciding factors in his future and he still has a year on his contract to go.
 

The Wheel

https://membership.seaeagles.com.au/
Premium Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
15,606
So players definitely gone for next year;

Joel T
Brendan Elliot
Waddell

and likely
Garrick
Trex

and maybe
Jorge
Levi

so that leaves at least 5 to 7 players to come into top 30 with only one Possible newbie In Saab
 

pjayz

Look into my eyes....
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
4,207
Walker has been out several times at Manly for injuries. Only once, whilst at Manly, for what you call 'stupidity'. And that 'stupidity' wasn't the reason he was not playing, it was the No Fault policy and it needs to be noted the matter was dismissed by the court. What happened on that day is really unknown to us and should not be flavoured up into something that should be now threatening his career. Continuing to look down on him years later, especially for something unrelated to his career is like kicking a dog over and again because one day in the past it defecated on your best shirt.. Leave it alone. This is about football. If you're not happy with his performance on the field, that's fine, and now should be the only determining factor..
Don’t forget he smashed a door with his fist out of anger and missed a number of games for us as a result. You can’t ignore that he has had his troubles off field. He has. Hopefully he will mature, but that coupled with his injury history means we might find better value elsewhere. I don’t think we need another centre necessarily with Harper, Funa and Hopoate coming through. I’d like to do a swap with Addo Carr and have him on the wing; although, he might be seeking a fullback role.
 

The better Robbo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
1,739
So players definitely gone for next year;

Joel T
Brendan Elliot
Waddell

and likely
Garrick
Trex

and maybe
Jorge
Levi

so that leaves at least 5 to 7 players to come into top 30 with only one Possible newbie In Saab
Metcalfe possibly gone too. Definitely some room for a few new faces. We need to get this recruitment right!
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,167
Don’t forget he smashed a door with his fist out of anger and missed a number of games for us as a result. You can’t ignore that he has had his troubles off field. He has. Hopefully he will mature, but that coupled with his injury history means we might find better value elsewhere. I don’t think we need another centre necessarily with Harper, Funa and Hopoate coming through. I’d like to do a swap with Addo Carr and have him on the wing; although, he might be seeking a fullback role.

Have you not done stupid things in your youth?

I once broke my leg chasing a woman I was involved with out a door late at night after an minor argument, and after we had both been drinking a little, and slipped on polished tiles. All I was attempting to do was plead with her not to drive because she had been drinking. But I was young and foolish and ended up in plaster for 9 weeks. And yet I'm considered among my peers as one of the most responsible people they know. Even won an award for honesty and integrity.

But we all do things we regret. There have been other incidents, nothing illegal, but poor judgement at the time. I know of no one who hasn't had moments of poor judgement, and I worked as a parole officer, union head and even was training to be a Methodist minister at one stage as well as being responsible over 18 months for over a hundred street teens in emergency accommodation. I knew thousands of people on a very personal level.

We all make judgement errors. If we point the finger at others, we are being hypocritical in that we probably have skeletons in each of our closets. That's what makes us human and helps us to learn. You may probably deny your errors on this forum, but I know of no one who hasn't erred. Walker erred on a few occasions. Allow him the right to learn from those mistakes, and not be crucified indefinitely, if he doesn't repeat those mistakes.
 

pjayz

Look into my eyes....
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
4,207
Bear,

Firstly, I am not pointing the finger at him, I stated fact: "he has had his troubles off field". I'm not sure why that is an issue. Secondly, I am hardly denying that I have done stupid things and I have no problem admitting that on this forum. In fact, I have had an emotional go at a poster on this forum in the past and was happy to acknowledge it and apologise for it.

The point was he has missed games because of his angry outburst in which he punched the door. It wasn't just a matter of hurting himself, it was a matter of hurting the team, club and fans. Again, not the crime of the century, but you need to look at the issues collectively. You also mentioned (in previous posts) that we shouldn't judge the issue he was acquitted of - I agree; however, there are disputed facts in that case and undisputed facts. He does not deny that he got extremely angry over his partner interrupting his video game and verbally abused her to such a point she picked up their child and walked out of the house being very upset. Neither party denies this. It was also this anger on display that resulted in the police being called - not because of the alleged pulling to the ground (we can't claim that since he was acquitted), but because of the verbal abuse and anger displayed. That in itself was enough to draw unwanted media attention to his partner, himself, the club and the game. Not to mention the inappropriate behavior towards his partner.

Again, he didn't commit a crime and I certainly am not hanging him for it as we all have arguments in relationships. I believe that collectively these present more of an issue than you do, and that is ok. I suggest that there have been a few incidents that were regrettable for him which led to time off the park. We also need to look at things in context, these matters directly impacted his employer. If I had similar incidents that impacted my employer I would have been out on my ear quick-smart; in fact, I know of colleagues who suffered this very thing and rightly so. This, along with his recent injury history suggest to me that we would be better placed to spend his money elsewhere. This does not amount to crucifying him indefinitely as you put it - it is an opinion and I'm happy for you to think otherwise.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,167
Bear,

Firstly, I am not pointing the finger at him, I stated fact: "he has had his troubles off field". I'm not sure why that is an issue. Secondly, I am hardly denying that I have done stupid things and I have no problem admitting that on this forum. In fact, I have had an emotional go at a poster on this forum in the past and was happy to acknowledge it and apologise for it.

The point was he has missed games because of his angry outburst in which he punched the door. It wasn't just a matter of hurting himself, it was a matter of hurting the team, club and fans. Again, not the crime of the century, but you need to look at the issues collectively. You also mentioned (in previous posts) that we shouldn't judge the issue he was acquitted of - I agree; however, there are disputed facts in that case and undisputed facts. He does not deny that he got extremely angry over his partner interrupting his video game and verbally abused her to such a point she picked up their child and walked out of the house being very upset. Neither party denies this. It was also this anger on display that resulted in the police being called - not because of the alleged pulling to the ground (we can't claim that since he was acquitted), but because of the verbal abuse and anger displayed. That in itself was enough to draw unwanted media attention to his partner, himself, the club and the game. Not to mention the inappropriate behavior towards his partner.

Again, he didn't commit a crime and I certainly am not hanging him for it as we all have arguments in relationships. I believe that collectively these present more of an issue than you do, and that is ok. I suggest that there have been a few incidents that were regrettable for him which led to time off the park. We also need to look at things in context, these matters directly impacted his employer. If I had similar incidents that impacted my employer I would have been out on my ear quick-smart; in fact, I know of colleagues who suffered this very thing and rightly so. This, along with his recent injury history suggest to me that we would be better placed to spend his money elsewhere. This does not amount to crucifying him indefinitely as you put it - it is an opinion and I'm happy for you to think otherwise.

Point well made and there is no denying he has made foolish errors that have impacted on the team. But I guess I'm just being pragmatic in saying his usefulness in my mind exceeds that damage, especially given he is only just turning 26 and has a good 5 or more good years ahead of him. And most young players leave behind foolish things as they age. I look at the utility value on the field and consider that maturity often leads to more sensible behaviour as a person ages. I noted this in my job. Walker isn't the first player to cause himself problems. We forget that Fonua Blake was actually convicted of assault against a girlfriend in the past. Do we use the same principle with him. Note the attached issues relating to players in recent years. You live with them and hope they just grow up

My caveat though is, again based on utility, if the young players coming through out compete Walker, and that could happen within the next year, then its a different issue. Harper looks a good potential, Funa impresses, Hopoate if he stays looks the goods. Suli needs to be more committed otherwise he could find others passing him, just as may happen to Walker. Utility, not emotion should govern the decision.


 
Last edited:

pjayz

Look into my eyes....
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
4,207
Point well made and there is no denying he has made foolish errors that have impacted on the team. But I guess I'm just being pragmatic in saying his usefulness in my mind exceeds that damage, especially given he is only just turning 26 and has a good 5 or more good years ahead of him. And most young players leave behind foolish things as they age. I look at the utility value on the field and consider that maturity often leads to more sensible behaviour as a person ages. I noted this in my job. Walker isn't the first player to cause himself problems. We forget that Fonua Blake was actually convicted of assault against a girlfriend in the past. Do we use the same principle with him. Note the attached issues relating to players in recent years. You live with them and hope they just grow up


Yep, Walker certainly isn't on his own there is no denying that. I guess a club needs to weigh up what they bring to the team v what they cost a team (time off the field, salary, exposure, opportunity cost etc). I think AFB certainly had issues in the past, but seems to have curtailed that. He was only 19 from memory - not that it excuses what he did at all, it was unacceptable and he got sacked because of it. Whereas Walker was 25 with his last incident and has been in the game long enough to know better with all of the programs they put players through these days. I also think he offers more on the field than Walker for our team. A fresh start elsewhere might be great for Dylan. I know it is unlikely to happen, but he and Addo Carr would be on similar money (circa 400-500k) and Melbourne have said they want a player in return for the Foxx. It could be a win win.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,167
Yep, Walker certainly isn't on his own there is no denying that. I guess a club needs to weigh up what they bring to the team v what they cost a team (time off the field, salary, exposure, opportunity cost etc). I think AFB certainly had issues in the past, but seems to have curtailed that. He was only 19 from memory - not that it excuses what he did at all, it was unacceptable and he got sacked because of it. Whereas Walker was 25 with his last incident and has been in the game long enough to know better with all of the programs they put players through these days. I also think he offers more on the field than Walker for our team. A fresh start elsewhere might be great for Dylan. I know it is unlikely to happen, but he and Addo Carr would be on similar money (circa 400-500k) and Melbourne have said they want a player in return for the Foxx. It could be a win win.

Walker has already been penalised by Manly in that he had to accept a lesser salary if he wanted to stay. Much will depend on the next 12 months and the development of the younger players. If they surpass his skills, he'll look elsewhere. If he remains the best centre we have, and I feel he is at present, then he'll be contracted beyond 2021 when his present contract expires (the bleeding obvious). He may lose a little in speed as he ages, but he'll probably become more skilful, just as most older players do. He's at the peak of his career, if he can stay on the field. Would be embarrassing if he goes elsewhere and makes us rue the loss, just as we feel with Gutherson
 

pjayz

Look into my eyes....
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
4,207
Walker has already been penalised by Manly in that he had to accept a lesser salary if he wanted to stay. Much will depend on the next 12 months and the development of the younger players. If they surpass his skills, he'll look elsewhere. If he remains the best centre we have, and I feel he is at present, then he'll be contracted beyond 2021 when his present contract expires (the bleeding obvious). He may lose a little in speed as he ages, but he'll probably become more skilful, just as most older players do. He's at the peak of his career, if he can stay on the field. Would be embarrassing if he goes elsewhere and makes us rue the loss, just as we feel with Gutherson
Gutherson was a loss, I hated seeing him go. I wouldn't want Walker to go unless we got quality in return, otherwise it is pointless. Suli is also on good money and will need to perform next year if he wants to keep his spot.
 

Bulli Eagle

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
63
What a good, interesting and respectful discussion....so as per brent reeds reference in the foran post, the roster is staying at 30...is that right?
 

jbb/james

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,058
Have you not done stupid things in your youth?

I once broke my leg chasing a woman I was involved with out a door late at night after an minor argument, and after we had both been drinking a little, and slipped on polished tiles. All I was attempting to do was plead with her not to drive because she had been drinking. But I was young and foolish and ended up in plaster for 9 weeks. And yet I'm considered among my peers as one of the most responsible people they know. Even won an award for honesty and integrity.

But we all do things we regret. There have been other incidents, nothing illegal, but poor judgement at the time. I know of no one who hasn't had moments of poor judgement, and I worked as a parole officer, union head and even was training to be a Methodist minister at one stage as well as being responsible over 18 months for over a hundred street teens in emergency accommodation. I knew thousands of people on a very personal level.

We all make judgement errors. If we point the finger at others, we are being hypocritical in that we probably have skeletons in each of our closets. That's what makes us human and helps us to learn. You may probably deny your errors on this forum, but I know of no one who hasn't erred. Walker erred on a few occasions. Allow him the right to learn from those mistakes, and not be crucified indefinitely, if he doesn't repeat those mistakes.
I agree with everything BF

A fans view is looking through the same microscope as an employer
Ive made many mistakes that made me who i am. Everyone close to me can see the benefits and gave me the benefit of the doubt mostly

My employers on the other hand had different outcomes and expectations, and were rarely as understanding as there goal was to squeeze coin out of me. Being in sales with black eyes, a printer with broken bones when training new staff for expansion from playing sport . Its sucked but it was hard not to see there perspective when patience runs out

Two sides
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
31,365
So players definitely gone for next year;

Joel T
Brendan Elliot
Waddell

and likely
Garrick
Trex

and maybe
Jorge
Levi

so that leaves at least 5 to 7 players to come into top 30 with only one Possible newbie In Saab
I wonder if the Hooker stocks are pretty grim out there if Levi mightn't get an extension for a year???
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
31,365
So players definitely gone for next year;

Joel T
Brendan Elliot
Waddell

and likely
Garrick
Trex

and maybe
Jorge
Levi

so that leaves at least 5 to 7 players to come into top 30 with only one Possible newbie In Saab
Further to that wasn't Garrick the swap for Saab, if so you can put him in the top list??

I'd rather a young kid with potential than TRex who has never had one single run anyway.

Think the medical retirement for Jorge is the only way to go otherwise it's 12 months taking up a spot and cap space.....its a sad situation as he's a club great BUT we have games to win.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,167
I agree with everything BF

A fans view is looking through the same microscope as an employer
Ive made many mistakes that made me who i am. Everyone close to me can see the benefits and gave me the benefit of the doubt mostly

My employers on the other hand had different outcomes and expectations, and were rarely as understanding as there goal was to squeeze coin out of me. Being in sales with black eyes, a printer with broken bones when training new staff for expansion from playing sport . Its sucked but it was hard not to see there perspective when patience runs out

Two sides

I can accept what you are saying about employers. Business is business and tolerance is less demonstrated, if the benefits, profits are being damaged. Certainly I would be giving Walker a bit of stick for some elements in his behaviour. And he was through a reduction in his contract payments.

But in the end I would be weighing up his value on the field, which in the end is the primary factor to be considered. Other issues are annoyances, but if he doesn't produce on the field, just as with an employer expecting a work performance that benefits the organisation, then that is the primary factor in determining ongoing employment.

I've also blundered at work, a couple serious. During my younger years I was also shown the door twice. But I lost those jobs through an inability to produce in those roles, not because of blunders. As I mentioned it comes down to utility. If you are useful through your performance, you'll generally hold your position, because that's the primary reason you are employed there. If Walker produces on the field, other factors will generally be handled inhouse, unless the damage caused is just too much to countenance
 

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