YES

[Spartan Eagle]

Id types a longer reply, but as it’s late here and I’ve had a few beers after a trip Italy today.

Your argument is “just because you live and travel weekly to all these places, you (as in me dan) have no observational rights, knowledge or experience with the exact point of this debate, vs you(as in you Spartan eagle) who lives in Sydney and spends most if not all (according to our logs) in Sydney, to have an educated opinion and point of view on the situation where I am specifically located and spend most of my time.

That’s right isn’t it?

Because honestly these riots and increased crime rates you refer to are completely fabricated.

As an illustration Rotterdam and Zuid Holland take more immigrants and refugees than anywhere else, yet they have seen an overall drop in crime rates compared to places like amsterdam.

I had bigger fears of being in Barcelona a few weeks ago than being anywhere else and even there it was more about interruption of transport than personal safety.

It may interest you to know I was evacuated from Manchester airport earlier this year because of a bomb scare, I was a day away from Brussels subway as I spend lots of time at the EU headquarters and many more. To be honest europe doesn’t care stop telling us what we live and experience we are aware of what we are

On the contrary.. You do have observational rights but you certainly don't speak for the rest of Europe nor claim to be speaking for the majority of the people. So you say that the refugee crisis in Europe and the problems associated with them are fabricated... There wasn't any backlash? Riots? Resistance from locals? Have a few more beers mate and go to sleep in your cushioned bed under the rainbow..

 

[Spartan Eagle]

Additionally your anger is at the politicians for not making decisions that they were elected for....

However the message you send is not that

Listen Dan what I wrote is not poetry so my message is not as subjective as you make it out to be... Plain and simple my anger is with the politicians for not having strength to make a decision due to fear of conservative political backlash. Wasted money on all of this.. If you interpreted a different message you shouldn't be moderating as you are not objective.

 

[Dan]

On the contrary.. You do have observational rights but you certainly don't speak for the rest of Europe nor claim to be speaking for the majority of the people. So you say that the refugee crisis in Europe and the problems associated with them are fabricated... There wasn't any backlash? Riots? Resistance from locals? Have a few more beers mate and go to sleep in your cushioned bed under the rainbow..

So, you do speak for Europe? You did experience these riots? You have first hand evidence of any of your “facts”?

No you dont, you have an opinion formulated from either mainstream or YouTube media. Sorry mate it’s just not the truth.

I was concerned about Paris when I last went, I’d watched videos and read stories about the “slums” that had been setup around stations like the Stalingrad metro stop, my hotel my work had booked was right there, I’d been there many times since 1998. I was concerned given the hype, I got there and it was just the same I walked through the metro and the streets and I had no concerns.

I tell my wife who fears many of these things. Go experience it, see it, react to it and do something about it, if you only want to observe 2nd or 3rd hand then your opinion is only noise. Be part of the problem or part of the solution.

The world is an awfully big place, it gets smaller but your opinion is a grain of sand on the floor of the sea.

Now tell me your first hand experience or just say you have an opinion. There is no shame in just having an opinion, in fact it’s what makes us diverse and rich. There is a problem with opinion being announced as fact

 

[Dan]

Listen Dan what I wrote is not poetry so my message is not as subjective as you make it out to be... Plain and simple my anger is with the politicians for not having strength to make a decision due to fear of conservative political backlash. Wasted money on all of this.. If you interpreted a different message you shouldn't be moderating as you are not objective.

Thank you for being straight. I agree. And someone more eloquent than me pointed out, we vote in parties and politicians to speak for us. The point of democracy is that it is jot feasible or possible to ask every single person their opinion on every topic and come to a conclusion.

So we vote for people or parties to represent us and make those decision because we voted for them to be able to do that.

Then they throw away money to make a decision they should have been able to make.

No one will disagree with you that what has happened was a total and utter waste of time and money.

Australia suffers from a few things, one of those is terrible terrible options for party leaders and PM’s.
The whips seemed to have failed or deliberately positioned themselves this way. They have failed to grow leaders, in a global turn toward conservative governments our conservative government have failed to put forward a leader that can win over anyone.

We are way way way to centred right now. We will see debt increase and decisions fail to be made.

I’m more upset at how badly the NBN was botched than what money was spent on the ssm vote. Keeping cooper wife was a bad idea. They should have started in reverse. Fibre node to home first, the update the node and backbone.

Those decisions will cripple us economically more than anything else in recent times

 

[Dan]

And politicians should not be there to decide things they should be there to facilitate them

 

[lsz]

As someone else pointed out now that the yes vote has got up when can I marry a horse?

 

[Spartan Eagle]

So, you do speak for Europe? You did experience these riots? You have first hand evidence of any of your “facts”?

No you dont, you have an opinion formulated from either mainstream or YouTube media. Sorry mate it’s just not the truth.

I was concerned about Paris when I last went, I’d watched videos and read stories about the “slums” that had been setup around stations like the Stalingrad metro stop, my hotel my work had booked was right there, I’d been there many times since 1998. I was concerned given the hype, I got there and it was just the same I walked through the metro and the streets and I had no concerns.

I tell my wife who fears many of these things. Go experience it, see it, react to it and do something about it, if you only want to observe 2nd or 3rd hand then your opinion is only noise. Be part of the problem or part of the solution.

The world is an awfully big place, it gets smaller but your opinion is a grain of sand on the floor of the sea.

Now tell me your first hand experience or just say you have an opinion. There is no shame in just having an opinion, in fact it’s what makes us diverse and rich. There is a problem with opinion being announced as fact

Go to the Greek islands of Lesbos, Chios, Kos, Leros and Samos and you will witness the deplorable conditions of the camps. I've been there and witnessed them.. As well as civil unrest.. Italy is also swamped with refugees. Movement outwards to other nations is relatively slow. So obviously you would not be witnessing camps in major cities. As if they would ever set up camps in Paris.. Just because you have not observed any adverse affects doesn't mean that the problems don't exist.. I don't speak for Europe.. But to say there is no problem is extremely narrow minded.. Type in Europe and refugee crisis / news...hey it's all fake news.. Putin and his mob are making it up.. Anyway thanks for the debate Dan. Wish you well with your travels and I think I'll stick to talking footy

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

As someone else pointed out now that the yes vote has got up when can I marry a horse?

You can marry our prime minister anytime you want

 

[Woodsie]

So we vote for people or parties to represent us and make those decision because we voted for them to be able to do that.

Then they throw away money to make a decision they should have been able to make.

No one will disagree with you that what has happened was a total and utter waste of time and money.

Hand up .. hand up, I will

Dan, you are correct in that we do elect people and parties to represent us, however we (always) know where they stand on major issues prior to electing them. They in fact campaign on these issues.

In the instance of SSM there was no campaign where one party was saying it will/wont legalise it. Nobody was elected with a mandate to make, what is for some people, a major social decision.

Whilst it could have been assumed that the will of the majority was yes, it was still in fact unknown. Federal elections are won or lost by less than 1% of the vote .... when a particular issue is split 60% - 40% politicians have an obligation to listen ... to both sides ... and to be well informed of before making decisions.

 

[lsz]

Not sure what the debate is now

Majority of people have voted to allow same sex marriage making Australia the 26th country in the world to do it.

Let’s get it done and move on

 

[desreturnoftheking]

Agree..
I think we are extremely lucky here in Australia where we have the ocean as a deterrent for illegal immigrants and strong border control. I'm all for letting the people in who knock at the front door and are invited in.

agreed. at big w they now don't sell Xmas trees but simple on the box it says tree.. and the signs in the city last year only read merry around Christmas time.. why? they don't want to offend the

No one can save you with that kind of close minded thinking.

Everyone deserves happiness and where anyone else parks there junk shouldn't be any of your concern.

**************. Im concerned what the kids will think is ok

Post edited please refrain from homophobic statements

 

[manlyfan76]

 

[Captain Moondog]

Same person marriage should be next on the agenda....people with multiple personalities deserve better

 

[Captain Moondog]

Same person marriage should be next on the agenda....people with multiple personalities deserve better

Yeah right...go f**k yourself Moondog...

 

[desreturnoftheking]

Id types a longer reply, but as it’s late here and I’ve had a few beers after a trip Italy today.

Your argument is “just because you live and travel weekly to all these places, you (as in me dan) have no observational rights, knowledge or experience with the exact point of this debate, vs you(as in you Spartan eagle) who lives in Sydney and spends most if not all (according to our logs) in Sydney, to have an educated opinion and point of view on the situation where I am specifically located and spend most of my time.

That’s right isn’t it?

Because honestly these riots and increased crime rates you refer to are completely fabricated.

As an illustration Rotterdam and Zuid Holland take more immigrants and refugees than anywhere else, yet they have seen an overall drop in crime rates compared to places like amsterdam.

I had bigger fears of being in Barcelona a few weeks ago than being anywhere else and even there it was more about interruption of transport than personal safety.

It may interest you to know I was evacuated from Manchester airport earlier this year because of a bomb scare, I was a day away from Brussels subway as I spend lots of time at the EU headquarters and many more. To be honest europe doesn’t care stop telling us what we live and experience we are aware of what we are

Did you atleast watch those videos before you took them down I guess you don't like being proven wrong hey buddy

 

[desreturnoftheking]

Go to the Greek islands of Lesbos, Chios, Kos, Leros and Samos and you will witness the deplorable conditions of the camps. I've been there and witnessed them.. As well as civil unrest.. Italy is also swamped with refugees. Movement outwards to other nations is relatively slow. So obviously you would not be witnessing camps in major cities. As if they would ever set up camps in Paris.. Just because you have not observed any adverse affects doesn't mean that the problems don't exist.. I don't speak for Europe.. But to say there is no problem is extremely narrow minded.. Type in Europe and refugee crisis / news...hey it's all fake news.. Putin and his mob are making it up.. Anyway thanks for the debate Dan. Wish you well with your travels and I think I'll stick to talking footy

He deleted my post pity because the facts hurt and people wpuld rather be ignorant and say 'nothings happening' straight ostrich

 

[Dan]

Did you atleast watch those videos before you took them down I guess you don't like being proven wrong hey buddy

I didn’t take anything down I was soundly asleep until 10 minutes ago when I got my kids up for school.

I can still see the videos and I didn’t watch them because they are fear mongering hatred filled fake news.

About the only place those apply is turkey, which is not Europe. I had 2 colleagues and a friend who lived in Istanbul during the REFUGEE crisis they moved to Crete, cypress and the other to the US, not because of refugees purse but because of the unrest and safety concerns in Istanbul. With that said I have been there in this time, my other colleagues regularly as we have a very big client there. I have colleagues who live across the islands in the cypriatic sea none of the things in those videos are true or a reflection of now.

You should look into the Russian influence of politics and media. That’s more real and more alarming that what you have been falsely lead to believe and is a greater concern for Europe

 

[Spartan Eagle]

He deleted my post pity because the facts hurt and people wpuld rather be ignorant and say 'nothings happening' straight ostrich

 

[Dan]

Also get your information from more informed and reasoned sources like Quora, not YouTube

 

[Spartan Eagle]

I didn’t take anything down I was soundly asleep until 10 minutes ago when I got my kids up for school.

I can still see the videos and I didn’t watch them because they are fear mongering hatred filled fake news.

About the only place those apply is turkey, which is not Europe. I had 2 colleagues and a friend who lived in Istanbul during the REFUGEE crisis they moved to Crete, cypress and the other to the US, not because of refugees purse but because of the unrest and safety concerns in Istanbul. With that said I have been there in this time, my other colleagues regularly as we have a very big client there. I have colleagues who live across the islands in the cypriatic sea none of the things in those videos are true or a reflection of now.

You should look into the Russian influence of politics and media. That’s more real and more alarming that what you have been falsely lead to believe and is a greater concern for Europe

Personally I think George Soros has more influence on politics and the media than the Russians.. But that is another debate.