Trump

[manlyfan76]

Given the loss of US manufacturing capability happened over decades, I think we should allow a bit more than 4 months for a meaningful turnaround.

I agree, I was replying to someone who said it was roaring, when all the data I've seen shows it isn't.

 

[Ohgeez]

Really? You were talking about his character. In a thread called Trump.
My post points out his character clearly.
You try to tie me to Harris ( I'm neither Democrat or republican) as some sort of insult? Do you win a lot of arguments with insults?

1. Who are you saying I insulted, the Democratic Party? 2. Where did I once talk about his character? 3. Do you win a lot of arguments by making up lies? his character wasn’t mentioned once by me, only media & a quote

 

[lsz]

Or the so called summer of love riots and lootings in Democrat Cites by ANTIFA and far left groups in 2020. Made the proud boys look pretty small by comparison.

I have been through enough of these internet debates to know that we are not really going to change anything here.

I could point out that the cost of the 2020 riots (which lets not forget were protesting systemic racism after the George Floyd murder - again this was their start, the move to destruction of property and violence is not something I believe) which is believed to be around 2bil is still less than what the total cost of the Jan 6 riots were. (which was over a "stolen" election) but honestly when there are statements like manufacturing jobs roaring back I think this is all a bit pointless

 

[Eagle 1]

I have been through enough of these internet debates to know that we are not really going to change anything here.

I could point out that the cost of the 2020 riots (which lets not forget were protesting systemic racism after the George Floyd murder - again this was their start, the move to destruction of property and violence is not something I believe) which is believed to be around 2bil is still less than what the total cost of the Jan 6 riots were. (which was over a "stolen" election) but honestly when there are statements like manufacturing jobs roaring back I think this is all a bit pointless

The cost doesn't really come into it Isz, the riots of 2020 under Biden, they were wide spread over many Democrat Cities, compared to a single event, Jan 6 on Capitol Hill.
Also on a side note, how ironic is this, the people who torched the Teslas are the people who drive them...Democrat voters.

 

[Brookie1973]

If we have got to the point where we are arguing one side is better than the other because their riots cost a little bit less than the other sides riots, we may as well give up.

 

[lsz]

Oh and before I leave I would love, as it has been mentioned, how big of an issue do we really think

The cost doesn't really come into it Isz, the riots of 2020 under Biden, they were wide spread over many Democrat Cities, compared to a single event, Jan 6 on Capitol Hill.
Also on a side note, how ironic is this, the people who torched the Teslas are the people who drive them...Democrat voters.

Then I would argue attacking the capital is worse than any other riot

And yes burning Teslas is just as mornic as thinking Elon is doing Doge out of the goodness of his heart

 

[Brookie1973]

Oh and before I leave I would love, as it has been mentioned, how big of an issue do we really think

Then I would argue attacking the capital is worse than any other riot

And yes burning Teslas is just as mornic as thinking Elon is doing Doge out of the goodness of his heart

Not only mornic, but moronic as well.

As an independent observer, I have seen some argue that the Jan 6 “attack on the capital” had the hallmarks of a false flag operation, that the participants came remarkably unprepared to overthrow a government and where simply protestors agitated by deep state agents, but others say that is just a conspiracy theory. I have also seen commentary that the voting patterns for the 2020 presidential elections were somewhat anomalous, and that the COVID restrictions and use of “voting machines” created the prefect environment for widespread vote rigging, but others say that too is just a conspiracy theory. I also recall a concerted campaign to discredit and overturn the 2016 election results on the basis of “Russian collusion” which I understand has now been completely discredited and in fact, appears to have been a complete fabrication. So who knows what to believe anymore. Maybe nothing is true.

On Elon Musk, it certainly is a curious one. Why indeed would the world’s richest man volunteer his time to the government and risk the wrath of angry rioters. I honestly don’t know the answer to that one. I would say that anyone who believes governments spend taxpayer money prudently and wisely may be those most likely to be taken in by conspiracy theories, so regardless of who runs it, a little DOGE can only be a good thing (if you are a taxpayer that is).

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Not only mornic, but moronic as well.

As an independent observer, I have seen some argue that the Jan 6 “attack on the capital” had the hallmarks of a false flag operation, that the participants came remarkably unprepared to overthrow a government and where simply protestors agitated by deep state agents, but others say that is just a conspiracy theory. I have also seen commentary that the voting patterns for the 2020 presidential elections were somewhat anomalous, and that the COVID restrictions and use of “voting machines” created the prefect environment for widespread vote rigging, but others say that too is just a conspiracy theory. I also recall a concerted campaign to discredit and overturn the 2016 election results on the basis of “Russian collusion” which I understand has now been completely discredited and in fact, appears to have been a complete fabrication. So who knows what to believe anymore. Maybe nothing is true.

On Elon Musk, it certainly is a curious one. Why indeed would the world’s richest man volunteer his time to the government and risk the wrath of angry rioters. I honestly don’t know the answer to that one. I would say that anyone who believes governments spend taxpayer money prudently and wisely may be those most likely to be taken in by conspiracy theories, so regardless of who runs it, a little DOGE can only be a good thing (if you are a taxpayer that is).

 

[Eagle 1]

Not only mornic, but moronic as well.

As an independent observer, I have seen some argue that the Jan 6 “attack on the capital” had the hallmarks of a false flag operation, that the participants came remarkably unprepared to overthrow a government and where simply protestors agitated by deep state agents, but others say that is just a conspiracy theory. I have also seen commentary that the voting patterns for the 2020 presidential elections were somewhat anomalous, and that the COVID restrictions and use of “voting machines” created the prefect environment for widespread vote rigging, but others say that too is just a conspiracy theory. I also recall a concerted campaign to discredit and overturn the 2016 election results on the basis of “Russian collusion” which I understand has now been completely discredited and in fact, appears to have been a complete fabrication. So who knows what to believe anymore. Maybe nothing is true.

On Elon Musk, it certainly is a curious one. Why indeed would the world’s richest man volunteer his time to the government and risk the wrath of angry rioters. I honestly don’t know the answer to that one. I would say that anyone who believes governments spend taxpayer money prudently and wisely may be those most likely to be taken in by conspiracy theories, so regardless of who runs it, a little DOGE can only be a good thing (if you are a taxpayer that is).

Or, how about, maybe Musk is just doing Trump a personal favour to rein in Gov spending and waste. He's a billionaire many times over, he doesn't need any more $'s. Or maybe it's a get even with the Democrats for all the nasty things they did to him on his social media platform.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

From the Shovel:

April 8, 2025
Americans Starting To Get Tired of All This Winning

Shutterstock/Aspects & Angles

Americans are not sure they can handle all of the winning that has occurred since Donald Trump became President, it has emerged.

From the moment Donald Trump became President Americans have been subjected to an unyielding stream of winning which is starting to get monotonous.

“I’ve lost my job, the economy is in freefall, I can’t afford healthcare, my friend just got deported, I have to see Elon Musk’s face on TV every day – it’s just win, win, win, win, day after day after day. It’s relentless,” one supporter said.

He said Trump had been true to his word. “Trump did say, before he became President, that if we elected him we’d get sick of all the winning. Well I’m definitely sick, but I can’t get healthcare because Trump sacked all of the workers.

“Don’t get me wrong, I love all the winning. But can we tone it down a little bit maybe? I’m not sure how much more I can take”.

Trump said America was winning more than any other country in the world right now. “There’s been a huge outbreak of winning. It really is tremendous,” he said.

 

[Eagledare2dream]

Trump is one crazy MotherF@##ker...Musk is pulling him on a string and writing all his speech for him, what a clown so call leader of the free world..

 

[lsz]

Not only mornic, but moronic as well.

As an independent observer, I have seen some argue that the Jan 6 “attack on the capital” had the hallmarks of a false flag operation, that the participants came remarkably unprepared to overthrow a government and where simply protestors agitated by deep state agents, but others say that is just a conspiracy theory. I have also seen commentary that the voting patterns for the 2020 presidential elections were somewhat anomalous, and that the COVID restrictions and use of “voting machines” created the prefect environment for widespread vote rigging, but others say that too is just a conspiracy theory. I also recall a concerted campaign to discredit and overturn the 2016 election results on the basis of “Russian collusion” which I understand has now been completely discredited and in fact, appears to have been a complete fabrication. So who knows what to believe anymore. Maybe nothing is true.

On Elon Musk, it certainly is a curious one. Why indeed would the world’s richest man volunteer his time to the government and risk the wrath of angry rioters. I honestly don’t know the answer to that one. I would say that anyone who believes governments spend taxpayer money prudently and wisely may be those most likely to be taken in by conspiracy theories, so regardless of who runs it, a little DOGE can only be a good thing (if you are a taxpayer that is).

Couple o questions for you (you pulled me back in partly due to my shame and embarrasment over not even being able to use the right moron term...ironic...most ironic)

1. What exactly is a false flag? Is that when someone else does the incident and then blames others?
2. Re vote rigging the thing for me is that there has never been any definitive proof. Sure there were different patterns due to COVID but the thing with the states that makes it o so different to us is the fact that it is not compulsory voting / the complexity of state based voting laws. Happy to see definitive proof of widespread voter fraud and discuss further
3. I think anyone agrees that every government has some fat in it and there needs to be a review of efficiency. I will wait and see what happens with the government based contracts / influence he has over the government before passing judgement. I do find it fairly strang (in general about US politics) that the majority of people with power and not elected and are appointed.

 

[Brookie1973]

Thanks for your insightful contribution to the debate. Those who are bereft of a cogent argument often fall back on this tactic. I assume you think all conspiracy theories are crazy except the Russians collusion hoax?

 

[Brookie1973]

Couple o questions for you (you pulled me back in partly due to my shame and embarrasment over not even being able to use the right moron term...ironic...most ironic)

1. What exactly is a false flag? Is that when someone else does the incident and then blames others?
2. Re vote rigging the thing for me is that there has never been any definitive proof. Sure there were different patterns due to COVID but the thing with the states that makes it o so different to us is the fact that it is not compulsory voting / the complexity of state based voting laws. Happy to see definitive proof of widespread voter fraud and discuss further
3. I think anyone agrees that every government has some fat in it and there needs to be a review of efficiency. I will wait and see what happens with the government based contracts / influence he has over the government before passing judgement. I do find it fairly strang (in general about US politics) that the majority of people with power and not elected and are appointed.

1. Broadly yes. It’s an action that is intended to create animosity towards a fake aggressor. Think gulf of Tonkin incident used to justify US involvement in the Vietnam War, weapons of mass destruction as justification for first gulf war, sept 11 attacks used to justify 2nd gulf war etc. All conspiracy theories that I am not saying I agree with btw, but who knows what a heavily politicised intelligence community can achieve. I like to keep an open mind.
2. I have heard it said that elections have been rigged in the US since the days of Al Capone and before. Some also believe that to think otherwise is a little naive and that the lack of voter ID requirement makes it more likely than not. For evidence, some people point to the huge spike in votes for Joe Biden in 2020 (+23% vs Clinton) even though he undertook no campaigning, and the subsequent sharp decline in democratic vote in 2024 (-8%). The republican vote on the other hand has shown a steady progressive increase from 2016 to 2024 (+17% in 2020, +4% in 2024). They also point out that Biden won the key battleground states of Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in 2020, but trump won these in 2016 and 2024. They suggest that it does seem strange that those key states loved trump in 2016 and 2024, but hated him in 2020.
3. Many belived that governments are inefficient almost by definition. It’s not their money after all. All governments have unelected officials that wield considerable power, but with appropriate checks and balances. Many don’t think that burning Tesla factories is an appropriate check or balance.

 

[Woodsie]

I'm confused ... which is normal ... but I find it odd, that the people who criticise the media the most ... nex minut .... post an article from the media ... to apparently prove their point ...

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I assume you think all conspiracy theories are crazy except the Russians collusion hoax?

Happy to discuss if you're game.

We can start with your 'hoax'.

The investigation found that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 election in a "sweeping and systematic fashion".

Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, Michael Cohen, and Roger Stone were all charged with offences as a result. All four had direct or close connections to Trump or his campaign

There were numerous contacts between Trump associates and individuals with ties to the Russian government, but the evidence did not meet the threshold for criminal conspiracy.

Re obstruction of justice -
the Mueller report examined ten instances of potential obstruction of justice by President Trump. While Mueller did not charge the president with a crime, he also did not exonerate him, stating:

"If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state."

Mueller cited Justice Department policy that a sitting president cannot be indicted as one of the reasons for not reaching a prosecutorial decision.

Doesn't sound like a hoax to me, far from it. But happy to hear your interpretation.

 

[Brookie1973]

Happy to discuss if you're game.

We can start with your 'hoax'.

The investigation found that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 election in a "sweeping and systematic fashion".

Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, Michael Cohen, and Roger Stone were all charged with offences as a result. All four had direct or close connections to Trump or his campaign

There were numerous contacts between Trump associates and individuals with ties to the Russian government, but the evidence did not meet the threshold for criminal conspiracy.

Re obstruction of justice -
the Mueller report examined ten instances of potential obstruction of justice by President Trump. While Mueller did not charge the president with a crime, he also did not exonerate him, stating:



Mueller cited Justice Department policy that a sitting president cannot be indicted as one of the reasons for not reaching a prosecutorial decision.

Doesn't sound like a hoax to me, far from it. But happy to hear your interpretation.

I thought as much, all conspiracy theories are cooky unless they favour a certain side of politics.

The mueller report found no evidence of Russian collusion, despite their years long efforts to find something. It seems the best they could do was publish a wink and a nod to leftists with the ridiculous “but we didn’t find any evidence he didn’t either” comment. I’m no lawyer, but isn’t it “innocent until proven guilty” not “guilty until proven innocent”. Strange comment to make from a lawyer and head of FBI.

I must say it is cute though that you have full confidence in the heads of the FBI and other law agencies being above politics, so I look forward to your equally impartial take on whatever kash patel and Pam biondi may uncover.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The mueller report found no evidence of Russian collusion, despite their years long efforts to find something.

Lol. Incorrect - you are simply quoting Donald!

The finding was unequivocal, Russia interfered to help Trump and hurt Clinton.

There wasn't enough evidence for a criminal conspiracy charge, but so what, all the links to Trump I referred to above are uncontested fact.

And it wasn't just the Mueller Report.
Consistent findings were made in the U.S. Intelligence Community Assessment (January 2017) and the Senate Intelligence Committee Report (2020).

But thanks for confirming you ignore the evidence and prefer to rely on, um... 'it's a fix, they all must be in on it' - at least now anyone unfortunate enough to be looking at this thread will understand why I posted that tin-foil hat pic! 🙂 🙂

 

[Brookie1973]

Lol. Incorrect - you are simply quoting Donald!

The finding was unequivocal, Russia interfered to help Trump and hurt Clinton.

There wasn't enough evidence for a criminal conspiracy charge, but so what, all the links to Trump I referred to above are uncontested fact.

And it wasn't just the Mueller Report.
Consistent findings were made in the U.S. Intelligence Community Assessment (January 2017) and the Senate Intelligence Committee Report (2020).

But thanks for confirming you ignore the evidence and prefer to rely on, um... 'it's a fix, they all must be in on it' - at least now anyone unfortunate enough to be looking at this thread will understand why I posted that tin-foil hat pic! 🙂 🙂

Please attach the section from the mueller report that found Russian collusion. You do know what collusion means I assume?

 

[lsz]

To be fair this is the start of the report

"The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion."


“The investigation identified two major Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election.
First, a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.
Second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents.”

On page 1 https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/dl?inline=