Tom Wright Gone and Jade Anderson on the outer?

[Kiwi Eagle]

The Waratahs won the Super Rugby title under him. He can’t help the complete lack of talent he has at the Wallabies.

The Wallabies were ordinary under Robbie Deans. Average coach?

The top squad of the wallabies has enough talent to be a hell of a lot better than they are, it's unbelievable to me that cheika still has a job with the results he produces, he is a history making coach for all the wrong reasons, managed to pull another one out last night that hadn't happened for 35 years, and is always full of excuses post match for why those results happened

Deans, ordinary, boring game plans for international rugby saw him come unstuck at that level, his super rugby titles were all won under an attacking style of play

 

[mave]

So now the word is Barrett had nothing to do with the release of Tom Wright ...... who are the sore bottom Barrett haters going to blame now .... ?

I'm still blaming the eternal rookie.

There is little denying that T. Wright has been poorly coached, managed, and developed in his time here....especially this season just gone.

 

[Woodsie]

I'm still blaming the eternal rookie.

There is little denying that T. Wright has been poorly coached, managed, and developed in his time here....especially this season just gone.

OH. there is plenty of denying that ... that is just In your opinion .....

There are always several ways to view something .... let's take his changing positions for example ...

The bum-sore brigade say how could he succeed when he kept changing positions ... poor coaching ..

The rational, intelligent and good looking brigade say the coaching staff were diligent in trying to find the position he was best suited for at NRL ..... great coaching ... a shame Tom didn't have the grit to be good enough at any of them .....

 

[mave]

Ok, let's talk about his changing positions...

Barrett publically stated that he sees Tom as a centre.
How much centre does he play at Blacktown to learn the craft ?

Wing opportunities galore are available due to injuries in1st grade throughout the season. Does Tom get an extended crack at wing to ease him into first grade, and see what he can offer ?

He plays a few 1st grade games at 6 and does relatively ok, soft defensively though.
Then dropped back to reggies to work on his game presumably, as regulars come back from injury.

Now sure, he may have chosen to return to rugby because it is easier, has more opportunities, who knows ?
But I maintain that he has been poorly managed this season, in fact the entire squad has been poorly picked this season. From only having 1 hooker in the squad, to not having a young gun like Anderson in the squad over a Jono Wright type.
Now hindsight is a wonderful thing, but your man Barrett lives and dies as a coach by these types of decisions.

 

[jbb/james]

Some interesting insights people have;

What does it mean to be defensively poor and does being defensively poor make you not tough? Well we need to find a half a new team. I think the way defence is taught today contributes to this. The need to stop 2nd phase, to tackle ball and all, requires an upright defensive style. Physics will tell you when you stand tall in an unathletic position like that and your opposite, who weighs up to 20kg more is running straight at you while you slide sideways that isnt a battle you often win.

Then, what is someone who cant tackle? Is it missed tackles? ineffective tackles? Does a look at the season Tackle effectiveness of our backs tells a story. There were 440 players who played first grade this year and this is how ours ranked:

436. J Wright 60%
428. Uate 65%
408. Kelly 72%
391. Taufua 74%
384. T Trbojevic 75%
367. D Walker 77%
356. Hodkinson/Parker/T Wright 78%
279. Cherry 83%
228. Suli 86%

J Wright, Uate and Kelly were all in the bottom 10% defensively with Taufua scrapping just above the cut. Taking it down to the bottom 15% brings in Taufua and Tommy Turbo. Does this mean they aren't tough or we should get rid of them or they cant tackle?

Im not sure I see how the argument has come to questioning T Wright's toughness or that he cant tackle, he was far from the worst offender in our team. His tackle technique needed work, definitely. I guess when you are 2 and 1/2 years into learning the game vs many who probably start as 6 year olds you are a little behind in the learning curve not to mention his first year of development was destroyed through injuries.

Then again the recruitment team have found us and maybe not surprisingly the following replacements:

418. B Elliot 64%
390. K Elgey 74%

Its been well documented that both kids Wright and Anderson have x factor there seems many reasons why it wasn't developed and nurtured properly or long enough, shame either way to lose promising kids like this. For those who entered the debate on Baz v lambkin influence; Wright entered fulltime training upon leaving school and starting with the club. He generally only did Captains run with 20s most weeks and the odd session here and there. His development was squarely in the hands of the first grade coaching staff. Ultimately Im just thankful the likes of Cliffy and Phil Blake played in an era when structure wasn't paramount before all else, where creativity and x-factor weren't a liability and I got to enjoy watching them.

A really enjoyable read, thanks for the info. Well put together. Generally im not the biggest stat man as i believe it only tells part of the story and far too often in the hands of the unqualified they create more harm than good.

However i think stats and percentages have had a major decision on tom wrights future. That stat being the percentage of salary cap manly have vested into the halves.
Cherry takes a chunk, we have hodko rightly or wrongly, and have signed elgy. thats probably about as much as we can invest in cash and possibly squad positions remembering we will carry a few budget buys as well to compensate for the top end of town. I suspect tom lies simewhere in between

While toms money may not be huge manlys need is now, not future. The current crop dont really get the job done so holding a place in the squad for a player that doesnt look to be ready until 2020 at least coupled with his $$$$$$ in the cap is not a luxury manly could afford even if they wanted to

Add to that he does not look the type to provide the game management, guile or patience that our current players in those positions lack.

Manly needs someone to direct the team around now and that has to supersede The future of the club at this point based on the current squad.

He may end up being a great player but currently manly cant afford to wait and tom just doesnt look ready. Its. Bind but you have to make decisions based on many things and a players ability or potential doesnt always determine what has to be done

 

[smithy]

I raised my concerns over Wrights mental toughness ..... nothing to do with defence or tackling .... I was talking about the toughness to grind out 80min of NRL pressure ... I honestly believe that this has always been the major concern, and not his perceived football ability ....

I would think the ability to grind out 80mins at NRL level can only be attained by playing 80mins at NRL level. Wright played 4 games and 162mins so 40 mins avg a game, never did he play 80 mins. If you are referring to application across that time you only have to read the many contributors on here to cast the same accusation against Parker, Suli, Turbo, Kelly etc. and further afield Dufty, Latrell Mitchell as young players who struggle to stay involved, have lapses or apply themselves for 80 mins in the NRL. Its been mentioned elsewhere that this competition is or close to he hardest in the world. Very few 20 year olds have the "mental toughness" at the beginning of their careers, most will develop this through exposure hence why there are always calls to blood players at the back end of seasons.

 

[smithy]

Ridiculous assertion ...... whilst ever player from u/16's up are under the head coaches umbrella, to suggest that Wayne Lambkin wasn't instrumental in Wright's coaching is just ridiculous ...

Really? How is it ridiculous? Its factual. Tom Wright joined Manly straight from High School and joined the first grade squad from day one. He trained full time 5 days a week with the First grade coaching staff. He wasn't figuratively under the head coaching umbrella he was literally coached by them day in day out every day for 2 and a half years. As with all the members of our full time squad who aren't selected in the NRL game day squad they go back and do captains run with their respective teams as their only session before game day. Most go back to NSW Cup where NSW Cup coach Hales prepares them for game day as Wright did this year with the likes of Sipley, Perrett, J Wright, Paseka early on, J Lussick etc. For the previous 2 years he went back for captains run to NYC. Pretty straight forward. So to say a Coach (Lambkin) who saw him for 2 hours a week was instrumental in his development over the coach that had him all day, every day for 2 and a half years seems much more ridiculous.

 

[BOZO]

For a kid that Baz said was a centre, he sure played a lot of games at anything other than centre.
More quality development from the mastercoach.

Some coaches see the rare qualities and gifts that a player possess and have the ability to instill confidence in the player and bring out the best in them . Trent (Goulds mastercoach) made no improvement to our team individually or playing as a team and we were lucky not to win the wooden spoon thanks to parra .

Sporting news ...
Greg Alexander
This was a remarkable try,
"He was a star Australian rugby union player, has only played one first-grade game coming into this one.
"That was just pretty to watch."

Mal Mannnga
a man who youngsters would dream of impressing, complemented the playmaker on his "blinding speed and right foot step".
Being able to sell the dummy to Gareth Widdop, one of the Dally M favourites for 2018, and then run 40 metres to score by yourself is incredibly impressive in just your second game of professional football.
Sea Eagles fans were wondering where he had been all year.

And the famous last words comes from our departing and inspirational master coach

Trent Barret
There is no doubt Tom is certainly a talent. He is big, fast, has good awareness, and has blinding speed.
“Tom is probably more seen as a centre than in the halves but it depends on who we have got playing around him,’’


This is how history will remember the forgettable Manly Trent years

 

[Volley]

Really? How is it ridiculous? Its factual. Tom Wright joined Manly straight from High School and joined the first grade squad from day one. He trained full time 5 days a week with the First grade coaching staff. He wasn't figuratively under the head coaching umbrella he was literally coached by them day in day out every day for 2 and a half years. As with all the members of our full time squad who aren't selected in the NRL game day squad they go back and do captains run with their respective teams as their only session before game day. Most go back to NSW Cup where NSW Cup coach Hales prepares them for game day as Wright did this year with the likes of Sipley, Perrett, J Wright, Paseka early on, J Lussick etc. For the previous 2 years he went back for captains run to NYC. Pretty straight forward. So to say a Coach (Lambkin) who saw him for 2 hours a week was instrumental in his development over the coach that had him all day, every day for 2 and a half years seems much more ridiculous.

Game, set and match.

 

[Woodsie]

I would think the ability to grind out 80mins at NRL level can only be attained by playing 80mins at NRL level. Wright played 4 games and 162mins so 40 mins avg a game, never did he play 80 mins. If you are referring to application across that time you only have to read the many contributors on here to cast the same accusation against Parker, Suli, Turbo, Kelly etc. and further afield Dufty, Latrell Mitchell as young players who struggle to stay involved, have lapses or apply themselves for 80 mins in the NRL. Its been mentioned elsewhere that this competition is or close to he hardest in the world. Very few 20 year olds have the "mental toughness" at the beginning of their careers, most will develop this through exposure hence why there are always calls to blood players at the back end of seasons.

I see you are a very literal person .... so I will try to simplify my opinion for you so that you need not look for a scientific formula to disprove it ..... IN MY OPINION THE KID DIDN"T HAVE THE STOMACH FOR IT. ......

 

[Woodsie]

Really? How is it ridiculous? Its factual. Tom Wright joined Manly straight from High School and joined the first grade squad from day one. He trained full time 5 days a week with the First grade coaching staff. He wasn't figuratively under the head coaching umbrella he was literally coached by them day in day out every day for 2 and a half years. As with all the members of our full time squad who aren't selected in the NRL game day squad they go back and do captains run with their respective teams as their only session before game day. Most go back to NSW Cup where NSW Cup coach Hales prepares them for game day as Wright did this year with the likes of Sipley, Perrett, J Wright, Paseka early on, J Lussick etc. For the previous 2 years he went back for captains run to NYC. Pretty straight forward. So to say a Coach (Lambkin) who saw him for 2 hours a week was instrumental in his development over the coach that had him all day, every day for 2 and a half years seems much more ridiculous.

I will concede your greater knowledge of the internal system .... however I will say that with all that coaching they still didn't succeed ...or hadn't yet .....

When faced with the choice of believing that all that effort by the coaching staff was somehow 2nd rate .... or believing that the kid was somehow lacking .something ..... (might just be maturity) ..... I choose the latter .....

If he had had it .... he would have used it ....... blaming coaching is just a sore bum response ...

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Barrett was in my opinion a failure as a coach on multiple fronts. We missed a great opportunity with young Wright. I can’t inderstand how so many defended him for so long and some still do.

 

[Bearfax]

I'll just zero in on one flabbergasting area of that post

Are you calling Cheika a good coach ? 😱

Absolutely he's a top coach Kiwi. If you're judging him on the performance of the Australian team against NZ, what coach has been able to beat the All Blacks. They live the game in NZ and those Pacific Islanders are made for the sport. No team in the Rugby World is near them, though Cheika managed to have Australia defeat them a couple of times in recent years, despite not winning the Bled Cup.

But he's a Shute Cup winner, a grand finalist in the European Cup, took the Waratahs to Super Union league winners in 2014, won the World group cup for 2015 when he was named World Rugby Coach of the Year.

Thing is Australia don't have a particularly strong group of rugby players at present as can be seen in their super union performances across the board. Cheka admits he has about 8 vacancies for the Australian side, and grabbing Wright is with a view to potentially using him in the national squad.

 

[Woodsie]

Barrett was in my opinion a failure as a coach on multiple fronts. We missed a great opportunity with young Wright. I can’t inderstand how so many defended him for so long and some still do.

Tragic .... in 50 years time Wright will tell his Grandkids that he could have been a star for Manly .. IF only he had a good coach ....

... and they will probably believe that as much then as I do now ....

 

[BOZO]

Barrett was in my opinion a failure as a coach on multiple fronts. We missed a great opportunity with young Wright. I can’t inderstand how so many defended him for so long and some still do.

If Trent is a real NRL coach, them I am the real Bozo

 

[globaleagle]

Absolutely he's a top coach Kiwi. If you're judging him on the performance of the Australian team against NZ, what coach has been able to beat the All Blacks.

Well, the Sth African one from yesterday's game!

 

[Bearfax]

(QUOTE="globaleagle, post: 1080563, member: 3558"]Well, the Sth African one from yesterday's game!

[/QUOTE]

Thing is that when Australia has only one team in the top 6 teams of the Super Rugby and that in equal 5th spot, out of five teams from Australia, it shows the over all state of Australian rugby at present. They just don't have the talent depth at present

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Absolutely he's a top coach Kiwi. If you're judging him on the performance of the Australian team against NZ, what coach has been able to beat the All Blacks. They live the game in NZ and those Pacific Islanders are made for the sport. No team in the Rugby World is near them, though Cheika managed to have Australia defeat them a couple of times in recent years, despite not winning the Bled Cup.

But he's a Shute Cup winner, a grand finalist in the European Cup, took the Waratahs to Super Union league winners in 2014, won the World group cup for 2015 when he was named World Rugby Coach of the Year.

Thing is Australia don't have a particularly strong group of rugby players at present as can be seen in their super union performances across the board. Cheka admits he has about 8 vacancies for the Australian side, and grabbing Wright is with a view to potentially using him in the national squad.

3-0 loss to England at home, series loss to Ireland at home, lost to Argentina at home last night, his list goes on and he is running at just over 50% success, which is 2nd worst for the Wallabies in the modern era. I just can't rate him at all, has had some successes a while back, but so did Ricky Stuart in the NRL and that doesn't make him a top liner now

 

[Wombat64]

Some coaches see the rare qualities and gifts that a player possess and have the ability to instill confidence in the player and bring out the best in them . Trent (Goulds mastercoach) made no improvement to our team individually or playing as a team and we were lucky not to win the wooden spoon thanks to parra .

Sporting news ...
Greg Alexander
This was a remarkable try,
"He was a star Australian rugby union player, has only played one first-grade game coming into this one.
"That was just pretty to watch."

Mal Mannnga
a man who youngsters would dream of impressing, complemented the playmaker on his "blinding speed and right foot step".
Being able to sell the dummy to Gareth Widdop, one of the Dally M favourites for 2018, and then run 40 metres to score by yourself is incredibly impressive in just your second game of professional football.
Sea Eagles fans were wondering where he had been all year.

And the famous last words comes from our departing and inspirational master coach

Trent Barret
There is no doubt Tom is certainly a talent. He is big, fast, has good awareness, and has blinding speed.
“Tom is probably more seen as a centre than in the halves but it depends on who we have got playing around him,’’


This is how history will remember the forgettable Manly Trent years
View attachment 9634

This is how I will remember the Trent years

 

[ricardo]

Haha you guys want frustration watch the Wallabies. I dont know how many dropped balls and missed tackles there were in the Argentine game but damn it was poor! SA match was similar with a victory to gloss over the fact Australia can't play rugby.

League is clinical. Virtually any club NRL side would beat the Wallabies in a cross code game. Wipe the floor really, I would expect.

Coaches fault? Yes. The players are giving 100% no doubt but are poorly trained in the main & look like an unprofessional rabble who rarely play with each other. But it's not just Cheikas fault! Yes he constantly picks the wrong players and then plays them out of position. But there's more...

There's a much smaller talent pool than league, AFL or soccer and it shows. A handful of toff schools, the Northern beaches, Eastern suburbs and patches around Sydney and Brisbane is about it. This can be fixed!

I used to play and fark it's a great but frustrating game. If you thought watching penalties against Manly were frustrating try being a forward in a rugby match. When I played league it was a much simpler game and as a result I enjoyed it more and knew my role. I was a middle forward or center so all I did was tackle, run and setup the guy outside me. Unreal 🙂 Rugby I never really knew wtf was going on despite playing for 10 years or more.

A simplified game for juniors has to happen otherwise quite frankly today's generation would simply give up and play playstation.

League imports generally flourish in union and while it's easy to cite Folau as the poster child for this, it's the guys like Koroibete and Rona who stand out for me. They can waltz into the Wallabies side while being no chance of ever getting near the Kangaroos. League is more competitive and professional.

I will never forget Ewan McKenzie's response to the questions what do league players bring to the rugby game?

"Tattoos."

While I cracked up when I heard this it really underlines the effete attitudes of the Australian rugby intelligentsia... they have a game and they dictate how it's played and run. Generally the guys at the top are there because of who they know not what and the result is a game in decline. There is no Craig Bellamy in Australian rugby. It's a lot less mercenary and therefore less professional.

The leap from club rugby to state is huge with no in between step (save me from the NRC tripe). It would be similar from going from your school league team to playing for the Sea Eagles. It's rare this step up can be made easily.

Basically rugby is broken and it needs an overhaul. It needs:

1) More grass roots support. What can be achieved here was showcased with the Rats this season. People attended games. Players improved.

2) A club "champions" league. Playing the best clubbies against each other would really help bring their game to the next level. A longer club season would help make them more professional and perhaps a greater awareness of the game in general.

3) Encourage rugby in the bush. I can't begin to tell you how irrelevant Rugby Australia treat bush footy, while this could simply be the best breeding ground for talent available to them. Oh wait, they didn't go to Shore, Joey's or Riverview? Don't worry then, we'll just naturalize a Samoan/Fijian/Tongan (with the greatest of respect to our Poly friends! I just think we can bring up local talent).

3a) An expanded club system. A handful of clubs in Sydney is hardly enough to feed the Tahs and further up the Wallabies. Does no one play in Newcastle? Illawarra? God forbid, the Riverina? Does NSW extend past the Nepean anyway?

4) Actually advertise the game! I can't tell you how many times I've missed a game as it's not been advertised. Absolutely no ads, nothing on free to air and since I don't watch enough tv to justify it I don't have foxtel. The result? 16k people turned up to an international match on the Goldie this weekend. Joke. More crowds, more money, better players, better product, better tv rights. More money. Loop.

There's more but I'm tired.