The Player / Manager Conundrum

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Frogz

Bencher
Premium Member
I agree with most of what you’ve said

But in terms of the big deal, the stupid actions from management yesterday releasing this article have made it into a big deal, and given the leeches some fresh blood to hold onto and drain
Yeah, but when I read it yesterday, my thoughts were...Thats good, i have wanted to know that ,but didn't know where to find it. It was only NRL360 that blew it up.
 

Budgie

In for the long haul.
2016 Tipping Competitor
Tipping Member
Mestrov does something that hasn't been done in Rugby League before - transparency - much like he did so many times at the Greyhounds (Richmond til we die!).

Meatheads in the media have never seen such a thing so it must be bad. Bad I tell ya!

Lesson, don't ever try anything different in good old status quo Rugba League!!!
 
I honestly don't get this whole issue. Certain management groups are going to have players become available at times and they will be offered to clubs regardless of the relationship with the manager or how many players he has on their books (I'm sure Luke Brooks was offered to clubs other than Manly).
It's then up to the club to make a decision as to whether that player is useful to their needs or not (hence every club has a retention committee). Sure the manager will use his leverage to broker a good deal and use existing relationships but surely none are stupid enough to threaten that another player will walk if you don't sign the player they are offering.
The clubs/retention committees live or die by these decisions so if they are stupid enough to sign a player based on that sort of pressure from a manager they should not be in the big league.
As for Seibold if he fails at Manly like he did at the Broncos he won't get another head coaching position so he would be pretty stupid to take a player he didn't think is going to improve the roster.
 
Mestrov does something that hasn't been done in Rugby League before - transparency - much like he did so many times at the Greyhounds (Richmond til we die!).

Meatheads in the media have never seen such a thing so it must be bad. Bad I tell ya!

Lesson, don't ever try anything different in good old status quo Rugba League!!!
I beg to differ. This wasn't transparency. The manner it was released was very ambiguous and misleading with no context.

Clearly it was trying to show that Moses is down in the list in the pecking order of player manager influence in the club.

By including train and trial/ development contracts it 'dilutes' his influence.

Moreover coaching staff all managed by Moses and 2 new signings to me does not display transparency.

The press release just shows how stupid the club hierarchy is and how stupid they think we are.
 

manly al

First Grader
Every R L player manager primary or expected main role would be to get the best available deal for his client [ s ] . Trying to agitate for upgrades or releases for dubious reasons or the manner and motive of doing so could be another matter .
Again would tend to think that all player managers would essentially have the same modus operandi.
If it is more related to personality issues or lack of liaison and business type dealing requirements from a club C E O or management or based around less relevant matters , would have to be of some concern.
Does not have a real good feel about it and seems a bit on the clumsy side in regard to the club just on basic impressions . But in other ways , hard to be aware of all of the circumstances and intentions all round .
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I agree with most of what you’ve said

But in terms of the big deal, the stupid actions from management yesterday releasing this article have made it into a big deal, and given the leeches some fresh blood to hold onto and drain
Maybe, but.. the narrative that's been getting spun for ages now is that Seibold is some sort of Moses stooge or plant which Manly is oblivious to and the evil endgame involves Moses controlling Manly, mwa hahaha.
The press release was (possibly) to reassure fans who've been sucked into this terrifying prospect that yes, manly does deal with Moses, but no, Manly is not oblivious to the dangers. Which dangers probably exist in most clubs and in respect to many player agents not just Moses.
Personally, while I agree it seemed odd, I am relieved to know the club is at aleast aware of the evil one lurking amongst us and is not totaly oblivious to what's happening there!
 

Mal Cochrane

I'm not really Mal Cochrane...
Imagine a coach that leans towards signing players that his own manager manages, because..... well I'm not sure why because, rather than signing players that will give results and prolong their coaching career
 

SeaEagle007

Reserve Grader
this was a damage control PR stunt.. they started off with 1 player this year, now there's 5 , next year will be more... He will have the most next year and you know it , end of the day you live by your decisions.. Penn and co have advised the fans we have a premiership winning team over and over and we haven't had any results... This year is a total write off again, if the same happens next year who will be to blame?? We need results, all us fans ever see is damage control posts, and its about time people started holding Penn to account always looking to band aid fix solutions, under his reign we have been nothing but disastrous. Max Delmege never had these issues..
 

Budgie

In for the long haul.
2016 Tipping Competitor
Tipping Member

Budgie

In for the long haul.
2016 Tipping Competitor
Tipping Member
this was a damage control PR stunt.. they started off with 1 player this year, now there's 5 , next year will be more... He will have the most next year and you know it , end of the day you live by your decisions.. Penn and co have advised the fans we have a premiership winning team over and over and we haven't had any results... This year is a total write off again, if the same happens next year who will be to blame?? We need results, all us fans ever see is damage control posts, and its about time people started holding Penn to account always looking to band aid fix solutions, under his reign we have been nothing but disastrous. Max Delmege never had these issues..
How do you hold an owner, AN OWNER, to account?
 

Tragic Eagle

Tragic
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Anatsa questions attention being drawn to player managers maybe because he is one. As for the remaining brain surgeons on NRL 360 their options mean nothing to me, so much so I am not watching that show again.

As for the article I can't understand the logic in effect drawing attention to the issue. It doesn't snuff anything out. What happened to doing your business in private. This was a very poor decision. I thought up until now Mestrov had been a shrewd operator but our management dropped the ball on this one. Club press releases should be heavily scrutinized and carefully considered. I wonder who was the brains behind this bit of brilliance.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
And Hooper has no agenda?
The NRL is nothing but agendas.
Of course, Hooper has an agenda. His MO is muckraking. However, on this occasion, he appears to be stating facts.
How do you hold an owner, AN OWNER, to account?

Therein, lies the problem. For example, would it have been possible for Penn to pay Latu's contract out of his own pocket, rather than include him in the top 30, when best case scenario, it was unlikely he would debut this year? This has supposedly put pressure on the salary cap and we are unable to retain him. Instead, we purchase Johns, Arthur & Brooks (???). We also let Cust go. It was Penn who pushed for DCE's 2024 & 2025 extension. Even the most ardent DCE supporters thought this was not a good long term option. I tend not to dwell on negativity, but I don't think we will win another comp while DCE is at the club. I would rather the club rebuild over time with talented youngsters like the Fainus than hold on to older players who are not getting the job done. I don't like the overall direction of the club - non retention of talented youngsters, together with importing a herd of ordinary players.
 
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lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Maybe, but.. the narrative that's been getting spun for ages now is that Seibold is some sort of Moses stooge or plant which Manly is oblivious to and the evil endgame involves Moses controlling Manly, mwa hahaha.
The press release was (possibly) to reassure fans who've been sucked into this terrifying prospect that yes, manly does deal with Moses, but no, Manly is not oblivious to the dangers. Which dangers probably exist in most clubs and in respect to many player agents not just Moses.
Personally, while I agree it seemed odd, I am relieved to know the club is at aleast aware of the evil one lurking amongst us and is not totaly oblivious to what's happening there!
I think the issue is not so much that they responded but how they did it

There are SOOOO many ways they could have done this but this was, just like Rainbow gate, another example of lack of structure, strategy and process at the club.

They appear to have decent intentions but the execution is left wanting again
 

manly al

First Grader
easy, revoke meberships, stop attending games, only buy membership to the leagues club , stop buying merchandise, very very easy
So you are assuming that there are willing financially sound and committed reliable parties ready to step right in and buy out the Penn"s 68 % stake in the Manly franchise .
Maybe but then to have to contend with or try to address a big fall in membership numbers and general support with a new owner
Probably be a turnoff to any prospective owner with that approach let alone the negative effect on the playing group and morale with reduced support
 

47MVEagle

Bencher
So we currently have these Moses managed players:

Bullemor
Johns
Woods
Lodge
Condon

Next year we’ll have Brooks & Talau.

How many of these 7 players are highly sought after by other clubs & can be used as leverage against the club for huge upgrades & other demands?

How many of these 7 players have cost us a motza? Brooks will be on $600k per year which I believe is a good price for an experienced half & I’d say he & Moses both know it’s likely his final contract so won’t want to jeopardise it by agitating for any extras. The other 6 would be on small value contracts for 2023 (Lodge train & trial, Woods $0.00, etc).

How many of these 7 players will be here next year? I believe Johns is on a one year contract & with the signing of Arthur, I believe he will not be re-signed.

As opposed to Tartak having (at one point) 10 up-&-coming players on our books that he could (& did) use to squeeze the club for upgrades & extensions?
 

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