The not-so Magnificent 7

[Seagles68]

Just wondering if there could be some legal or to be determined legal right for individuals in high profile sporting codes not be compelled to have all of the promotional logos on their playing day jerseys In the context of religious freedom of expression and so on Certainly being a bit selective not having the same resistance in Manly 's case with gambling promotion and whatever but that seems to be the present reality . Just have to get it well sorted before next season 's start , just can 't have a repeat of the same disruption outcomes .

That sounds like a winner for the lawyers, doesn't it. I wonder if there's any hope in hell (that I don't believe in) that if they have another "inclusive" round and it gets promoted as the NRL wanting to include everyone NOT just as a "gay pride" round (which I don't think they actually did anyway ..... did they??) (ie LGBQT+, people with overtly displayed religious beliefs, diverse ethnicity etc etc) that our blokes would not boycott the game?? I'm wondering if they might be just looking for a way to get around their belief by having it reframed?? I don't know. And I probably shouldn't even go there. I successfully avoided the whole discussion previously. I think I should return to that approach.

 

[BOZO]

Great leaders unite their people

Great leaders do not Divide their people

Lead by example Mr Penn !

 

[Woodsie]

Yeah, nah - I'm still not buying that "My faith and beliefs come first" is ever an adequate explanation for anything. Please explain the teachings of that faith and catalogue those beliefs, and tell me why they preclude you from wearing a jersey with a rainbow on it. And while you're at it, what have you got against inclusivity… oh, and gay people?

But whatever. I hope we never have to deal with players sitting out games again, although given that culture warriors like Paul Kent depend on stoking division for a living and old white blokes continue to be scared that the world is leaving them behind (and I say that as an old white bloke who is scared that the world is leaving me behind), that seems like wishful thinking.

Just have to remind myself that these are, for the most part, young, impressionable men. I mean, you're not even a real person until you're at least 27. And I hope as they get older they will also get wiser, and when they look back on what happened in 10 or 15 years' time, they might have a different perspective.

Tim Hardaway, who actually said what our players only implied, might be a good example:

‘It was so wrong’: Tim Hardaway on old anti-gay views, religion, second chances

Former Golden State Warriors guard Tim Hardaway reflects on the 2007 interview that still shadows him long after he renounced his homophobic beliefs.

www.sfchronicle.com

As long as you attempt to put a logical explanation to something that is faith based .. you will continue to be disappointed..

You may as well ask them to prove God exists .. they could try .. but you wouldn't accept their proof anyway.

The only facts in the whole sorry saga are .. they genuinely believe in their church, their culture and their faith.

You and I may well think them deluded and out of touch with modern values ..

But I respect that they have the courage to stand by what they believe to be the teachings .

There is no single argument or statement that will change your view .. just as simply saying pull your heads in will not change theirs ..

So for the sake of our mental health and the good of the team .. we need to move on.

 

[BOZO]

You may as well ask them to prove God exists .. they could try .. but you wouldn't accept their proof anyway.

No one can prove that God exists or does not exists

Even scientists can only come up with theories

What Penn proved is how some one stupid can divide their Clubs players and people,
By politicising their club

 

[Budgie]

tell me why they preclude you from wearing a jersey with a rainbow on it. And while you're at it, what have you got against inclusivity… oh, and gay people?

The questions the 'journalists' should be asking.

 

[BOZO]

Penns seems to blame others and sack others

But the reality is

If Penn does not lift his own game .

He will eventually fall on his own sword

 

[BOZO]

Thanks to the NOT SO Magnificent Penn

We are still going on about this crazy Thread

 

[47MVEagle]

I dunno, homosexuality seems to be such a major red flag to these guys but associating with felons & throwing gang signs after scoring tries in support of said felons ain’t no thang.

Seems a bit arse to elbow IMO.

 

[sheridanstand78]

I heard the interview with Josh Schuster and weed killer and that the decision not to play wearing the rainbow jersey was due his religious and cultural values.

A message to all of the players who made the same decision, you blasphemed something that is sacred to me and thousands of others who love our club.

We are supposed to be an inclusive club and you and your colleagues made an exclusive decision. The calamity we see now is the end result.

It might be an idea to work hard and understand that things are not handed to you on a plate!!

I really Pity the Pacifica kids out there who are dealing with their sexuality knowing that their own might reject them, that is the message your decisions sent to your community!!

Redemption and respect are now required!!

 

[Woodsie]

I heard the interview with Josh Schuster and weed killer and that the decision not to play wearing the rainbow jersey was due his religious and cultural values.

A message to all of the players who made the same decision, you blasphemed something that is sacred to me and thousands of others who love our club.

We are supposed to be an inclusive club and you and your colleagues made an exclusive decision. The calamity we see now is the end result.

It might be an idea to work hard and understand that things are not handed to you on a plate!!

I really Pity the Pacifica kids out there who are dealing with their sexuality knowing that their own might reject them, that is the message your decisions sent to your community!!

Redemption and respect are now required!!

So your view of the world is .. that people should be forced to accept your view of the world as the only correct view ..

And not only that .. that people who don't agree should also be forced to wear a tshirt actively supporting your view of the world against their wishes.

There is a name for that sort of behavior... and I'll give you a tip .. the words tolerance and inclusiveness are not part of it .

 

[Ryan]

So your view of the world is .. that people should be forced to accept your view of the world as the only correct view ..

And not only that .. that people who don't agree should also be forced to wear a tshirt actively supporting your view of the world against their wishes.

There is a name for that sort of behavior... and I'll give you a tip .. the words tolerance and inclusiveness are not part of it .

Mate, back in the awful days of actually working in commercial banking, I felt some of the decision making, choices about fees and/or complaints was diabolically unethical, but as an employee of the institution, I had to adhere to what the powers that be demanded.

The boys are entitled to their opinions and views. But the entire footy operations were told, and re-told that the inclusivity jerseys weren't about LGBTQ+ , but just that, inclusivity (not sure that part was detailed to the players unfortunately).

Seems this debate could actually be correct from both sides of the fence. You are spot on about their right to independent and valid views. BUT, could they have not sought clarity (even on the day) from their employer about the thought process behind the hoops?

 

[Woodsie]

Mate, back in the awful days of actually working in commercial banking, I felt some of the decision making, choices about fees and/or complaints was diabolically unethical, but as an employee of the institution, I had to adhere to what the powers that be demanded.

The boys are entitled to their opinions and views. But the entire footy operations were told, and re-told that the inclusivity jerseys weren't about LGBTQ+ , but just that, inclusivity (not sure that part was detailed to the players unfortunately).

Seems this debate could actually be correct from both sides of the fence. You are spot on about their right to independent and valid views. BUT, could they have not sought clarity (even on the day) from their employer about the thought process behind the hoops?

In hindsight .. the whole sordid debacle could of been handled better ..

 

[Ryan]

I dunno, homosexuality seems to be such a major red flag to these guys but associating with felons & throwing gang signs after scoring tries in support of said felons ain’t no thang.

Seems a bit arse to elbow IMO.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

I don't think the religion debate is of assistance here. Tolerance and socially embracing social and religious issues are two very different things. We had significant problems within the playing group before that round. It was an extremely embarrassing incident for the club and still leaves a pit in my stomach whenever I think of fit players boycotting their own team. But I have always advocated that sport is not a platform from which politics, religion and sexuality should be voiced. Its bad enough we contaminate sport with gambling which is done for significant revenue. Clearly people in authority either failed to recognise the potential impact on that part of our playing group or didn't care. Either way it was not good enough and heads need to roll.

 

[Seagles68]

So your view of the world is .. that people should be forced to accept your view of the world as the only correct view ..

And not only that .. that people who don't agree should also be forced to wear a tshirt actively supporting your view of the world against their wishes.

There is a name for that sort of behavior... and I'll give you a tip .. the words tolerance and inclusiveness are not part of it .

For me, the pertinent point is that there will indeed be young people (in particular) within their community that will be agonising over their sexuality, knowing the potential backlash. Not that they probably haven't up to this point but this whole fiasco has certainly amplified the situation. But anyway ......

 

[sheridanstand78]

So your view of the world is .. that people should be forced to accept your view of the world as the only correct view ..

And not only that .. that people who don't agree should also be forced to wear a tshirt actively supporting your view of the world against their wishes.

There is a name for that sort of behavior... and I'll give you a tip .. the words tolerance and inclusiveness are not part of it .

Are we an inclusive club or not?

 

[Budgie]

For me, the pertinent point is that there will indeed be young people (in particular) within their community that will be agonising over their sexuality, knowing the potential backlash. Not that they probably haven't up to this point but this whole fiasco has certainly amplified the situation. But anyway ......

Exactly. @Woodsie I think you entirely missed the point about young suicides and it's a very real one in such patriarchal religious communities.

 

[Seagles68]

It certainly is fraught .........

And you're right @Tragic Eagle , there were certainly probs before it all blew up. Exit stage right on this topic for me.

 

[Woodsie]

Are we an inclusive club or not?

Yes .. we allow Islanders with a different view to ours play for us .

 

[sheridanstand78]

Yes .. we allow Islanders with a different view to ours play for

Who show how exclusive they are!