The Kieran Forum

[Shoe1]

The performances of Elliot and croker made me openly weep this year. Croker at hooker slightly better than at 5/8. His performances at 5/8 were really bad. I can cope with him as a backup hooker.
Elliot was ok in 2019 as a replacement but couldn’t cut it as a regular in first grade.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Rather sad you dont share that patience with players like Albert Hopoate and Tom Wright. They only had a few games to prove their worth. This will be Croker's sixth season.

Different situations. Hoppa has talent but clearly needs time after no footy and 2 serious injuries, hopefully gets there. Wright has obvious talent but it is the deficiencies in his game that were holding him back. Maybe he has found his level at the Wallabies.
Croker - people think he lacks the ability, that's my only point of difference really. He also hasn't been ready, and has had serious injuries cut into his development. The lot of you might well be proved right, I'm just not quite ready to give up on the guy just yet 🙂
(As for 6th season - he's only played 33 games and most of those would be off the bench)

 

[winnyason]

Croker if he near a first grade jersey then we are screwed it's that simple.

 

[madmax]

Still better for Cust to start as the 9 and Croker as a 9 sub or bench utility . Fairly sure that Cust will do O K in attack at 9 and could even be quite suited with the increased ruck tempo play , just the more demanding defensive input again to hopefully adjust to . Levi certainly had a go , even in the tackling department .However not the most constructive or good reading of the play type 9 but certainly did not lack effort

So have Cust @ 9, Croker @ 14 & leave out Schuster all together.......I highly doubt it. That to me would indicate our coaching staff are total fvckwits & have learnt fvck all from this shemozzle of a year.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Who is the hallway defector?

Or is it defecator? Would that be Mate Nyles?

 

[Bearfax]

Different situations. Hoppa has talent but clearly needs time after no footy and 2 serious injuries, hopefully gets there. Wright has obvious talent but it is the deficiencies in his game that were holding him back. Maybe he has found his level at the Wallabies.
Croker - people think he lacks the ability, that's my only point of difference really. He also hasn't been ready, and has had serious injuries cut into his development. The lot of you might well be proved right, I'm just not quite ready to give up on the guy just yet 🙂
(As for 6th season - he's only played 33 games and most of those would be off the bench)

Your comments are quite valid in my opinion. Hoppa was under done and Wright needed to be brought in carefully, probably on the wing.

Point is that backing Croker who has done little for five years (granted he's had bad luck with injuries and he may improve), but pointing out deficiencies in two players barely started in first grade, seemed like you were using different measuring sticks for different players.

I know I probably bore readers with saying the same thing over and again but I believe its important. Young players are all under done and need time in first grade to develop. Leaving them in reserves, leads to reserve grade standard of play. Both Hoppa and Wright needed first grade experience, which is by far the best school to learn what is needed. Even Ponga, the million dollar junior, has bad games.

Young players are always inconsistent and learning their craft. The more they play, the more their natural skills develop.

I watched Hoppa closely in his games for Manly. Yep he struggled at times. He also did some clever things, including in defence. He wasn't that bad, just not outstanding. They're apprentices learning their craft and all apprentices make mistakes. But you don't expect immediate first grade consistency from them. That takes time.

Good luck with Croker. I've never been that impressed with him, but he's had injury issues (like Hoppa) and this should be taken into account. He may come good. He's solid, tries hard, defends quite well, just haven't seen anything yet that speaks of worthiness for a full time first grade position. If he comes good, great, because we need skilful players. But he has to take his game to the next level for me to be convinced of his worth. But, hey, I'm patient....except when I'm not

 

[Wombat64]

Kieran Foran opens up on his return to Manly, his body, the future and a burning desire to win another NRL premiership
He’s back. Kieran Foran opens about his time away from Brookvale, his hunger for success, Dessie’s influence and why he can help take the club back to the top.

Dean Ritchie
November 30, 2020 - 6:00AM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
2 comments
Dessie, DCE and Foz — it’s the triple threat that led Manly to the 2011 premiership.
All three have endured incredible highs and lows since those heady days, but now coach Des Hasler and his one-time young sensations Daly Cherry-Evans and Kieran Foran are together again.
Foran sees his reunion with Hasler as a “blessing” that will bring out the best in the five-eighth’s battered body.
Cherry-Evans and Foran won 64.5 per cent of their 110 games together between 2011 and 2015.
Foran played finals in his first six seasons and is hungry to return to the playoffs for the first time since 2014.

Kieran Foran back in Sea Eagles colours. Picture: Manly Media/Supplied.
“I’m desperate to win a grand final,” Foran said.
Foran, 30, left Brookvale in 2016 for what turned into an often rocky ride through Parramatta, the Warriors and the Bulldogs.
He tells The Daily Telegraph how he can help take Manly back to the top.

Foran spoke to The Daily Telegraph a day before the tragic death of Keith Titmuss, when the subject matter was purely focused on the new Sea Eagle’s thoughts were about the 2021 season.
INSATIABLE DESIRE
Foran wants to make it clear – he is back at Manly to win a grand final.
“I have this desire to win. I want to win another premiership,” Foran said.
“That is burning deep inside me, the hunger to do that again.
“The desire to win a premiership is burning far greater and brighter now than what it was back then (a premiership win in 2011 with Manly) and I was desperate to win one back then,” he said.
“Now, you want to climb that mountain again because you know how good it can be. For me, I am so desperate to get back here.
“Having gone through what I have in my career, and faced the challenges that I’ve faced, to be able to reach and climb the top of the tree again would be… winning a premiership is the ultimate thing you can do in our game.
“I was very fortunate to be part of such a special team in 2011, to win it with those guys. To do it now, having gone through what I have, it would be far different.”

Will Hopoate, Daly Cherry-Evans and Kieran Foran ahead of the 2011 NRL Grand Final.
HE’S BACK
Foran played 147 NRL games for Manly before turning into a journeyman.
“You probably don’t realise how much you miss a joint until you’ve been gone and then you walk back through the doors again,” he said.
“Just going down there (the club’s Narrabeen’s base) a few times over the last three weeks, there are still some familiar faces there. It’s definitely made me realise how much I have to enjoy myself moving forward.

Foran celebrates after the Sea Eagles won the premiership Picture: Bill Hearne
“I had some many great years here. They are some of the best memories I have throughout my footy career.
“Without dwelling too much on the past, you don’t want to live in the past, you have to look ahead, and it’s a completely new group now, but the culture and fabric of the place certainly hasn’t changed. That’s what I loved about this club when I played here and it still has the same feel.”
MAD SCIENTIST
Foran is adamant one person brought out his best – Hasler.
“It’s funny how it has worked out. I can’t believe it, I pinch myself. I have always admired Dessie so much. He has been the one coach that, for some reason, I don’t know what it is, has always brought out the best in me,” Foran said.
“My fondest years were playing under Dessie. He has moulded my game and he was the architect behind the style of footy that I play. I have such belief in the way he coaches and the standards he sets.
“You’ve got to remember, I went to Canterbury because Dessie was there. When he left, I didn’t think I’d get another opportunity, I thought I’d lost that.
“To think now, at 30, I get the chance to go back to the club where I started out and be back under the one bloke that I admire so much, I feel very blessed and fortunate. He brings out the best in me, there’s no doubt in my mind.”

Kieran Foran played 147 games for Manly before leaving the club in 2015 - but he’s back.
CHEZ AND FOZ
Foran and Cherry-Evans were Manly’s halves in the 2011 grand final. Now they’re back together again.
He was in his third season of first grade and just 21 years old when he teamed with Cherry Evans to win the 2011 grand final over the Warriors.
Cherry-Evans was just 22 and produced a season that won him the rookie of the year honours.
“It’s been the main question I’ve been asked since signing back at Manly – how will it be being back alongside Cherry,” Foran said.
“Look, to think me and Cherry came through together and had some great success early on alongside one another, I think we really complimented each other well.
“I’m sure it will be no different 10 years on. We have both grown our games and learnt a hell of a lot albeit during different journeys.
“I think the way that we play – our style of footy – hasn’t changed dramatically so in terms of bringing out the best in each other, I’ve got no doubt we will still do that like we used to back in the day.
“And we push each other. We have always done that. Push each other on the training field and push each during games. That is what brings out the best in the guys around us.
“I’m not sure where I’m going to play. I haven’t spoken to Dessie about it, whether it’s in the six jumper, that will be up to him where I’m best suited to the side.”
Results

Foran and Daly Cherry-Evans in 2013. Picture: Gregg Porteous

CAN’T BEAT EXPERIENCE
Foran said: “I’ve got a firm belief in my mind about what I can still offer. That doesn’t waver in my head despite the setbacks. I know if I continue to work as hard as I can then I will play as good a footy as I know I can.
“If I can get there then I can provide a bit of experience around the place because it’s a pretty youthful squad.
“I know ‘Chez’ is there and a couple of other blokes that have been around a while. If I can provide experience in games and at training then hopefully I can add some value to the place.
“I’d like to help blood the next crop of guys coming through – this looks a really exciting group. The priority for me is getting my body right because of the value I can add on the field only comes when I’m playing.
“That will be the crucial part – making sure I’m out there each and every week playing as good a footy as I know I can play.”
INJURY WOES
Foran did not suffer any major injuries during his time at Manly.
Since then he has battled a raft of issues including major shoulder and ankle injuries that have kept his game totals over the past five seasons to nine, 17, 12, 14 and 13.
His Bulldogs career ended with a torn right pec in September.
“I feel great. I always say that, I’m always optimistic about my body despite having a ton of injuries to deal with over the last three to four years,” Foran said.

Foran is back at Manly to win another premiership. Picture: Manly Media/Supplied.
“I firmly believe my body still has plenty left in it and that is what continues to drive me because I know I will put in the work and eventually I’ve got to come out of this injury hole and surely string some consistent games together.
“Personally, I feel really positive about my body and I feel like I will be able to get a ton of work in before the season and prepare myself as best as I can. Touch wood, I can get a bit of luck on the injury side.”
THE FUTURE
It seems like Foran has been around forever, partly because he debuted for Manly at just 18 years old way back in 2009.
But he is still only 30 and has up to four years left if injury free.
“Everyone always thinks I’m a lot older than what I am because of the amount of footy I played early on in my career. I didn’t miss many games and played finals every year,” Foran said.
“I crammed a lot of footy into that first six or seven if my career. To be the public eye, they probably think I’m a lot older than what I am.”

 

[winnyason]

So have Cust @ 9, Croker @ 14 & leave out Schuster all together.......I highly doubt it. That to me would indicate our coaching staff are total fvckwits & have learnt fvck all from this shemozzle of a year.

Schuster will walk if that's the case, he be on the bench or backrow to start with. Croker get him away from first grade cust is creative and has a burst of speed to worry defence.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Heart is one thing and Froggy probably has that in spades , ability though is quite another.

He only played the games he did last year as we had no one else.

I’ll be surprised if he gets any game time in 2021, unless the injury gods kill us again.

If he’s first choice above say Schuster , Des will have officially “ gone mad”.

 

[manly al]

So have Cust @ 9, Croker @ 14 & leave out Schuster all together.......I highly doubt it. That to me would indicate our coaching staff are total fvckwits & have learnt fvck all from this shemozzle of a year.

Have never suggested that Schuster should not be in the game day 17 , Either in the run on side as the 6 , 13 or back row or as a super sub [ maybe initially .]

 

[Tragic Eagle]

When interviewed recently with Burbo, young Schuster has made it clear his ambition is to establish himself in the NRL in 2021. IMO if Des keeps him sitting on the timber during 2021 or playing at Blacktown, he will be gone in 2022. In the modern game management of young stars is critically important. Schuster will attract great interest from the other clubs especially the Rorters who need another gun half. Historically young players with talent have been given a start at a young age even Foran debuted when he was 19 and Fittler debuted at 18 years. Every kid with talent will be chasing fame and big bucks and wanting it as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong I am old school and believe selection being earned and not given to someone that is not putting it in at training or is being a trouble maker. But special talent is a very valuable commodity that needs to be nurtured and developed and not held back. Schuster is age 19 turning 20 in May 2021. Physically he is ready so its really a question of him being in the right head space and on the right side of the coach. So in my mind its either use him or lose him. Yeah some will call him a sook if he goes but I will see it as a great loss to the future of this club. Kieran is not a long term solution for us and DCE is coming towards the end of his career. Time to prepare for the changing of the guard.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

When interviewed recently with Burbo, young Schuster has made it clear his ambition is to establish himself in the NRL in 2021. IMO if Des keeps him sitting on the timber during 2021 or playing at Blacktown, he will be gone in 2022. In the modern game management of young stars is critically important. Schuster will attract great interest from the other clubs especially the Rorters who need another gun half. Historically young players with talent have been given a start at a young age even Foran debuted when he was 19 and Fittler debuted at 18 years. Every kid with talent will be chasing fame and big bucks and wanting it as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong I am old school and believe selection being earned and not given to someone that is not putting it in at training or is being a trouble maker. But special talent is a very valuable commodity that needs to be nurtured and developed and not held back. Schuster is age 19 turning 20 in May 2021. Physically he is ready so its really a question of him being in the right head space and on the right side of the coach. So in my mind its either use him or lose him. Yeah some will call him a sook if he goes but I will see it as a great loss to the future of this club. Kieran is not a long term solution for us and DCE is coming towards the end of his career. Time to prepare for the changing of the guard.

He’ll be playing , and a lot!

I think it’s a big reason why we signed Foran , as a mentor to the young fella.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

He’ll be playing , and a lot!

I think it’s a big reason why we signed Foran , as a mentor to the young fella.

I think and hope you're right, Mark. There's no reason they both can't be in the side and work together. And to think that Foran, who is still one of the best halves in the NRL and has premiership-winning history when working with DCE, won't get any time in the halves seems crazy to me.

 

[Ned]

I think while fit Foran will start 6. Schuster will have to wait for an injury to get on the field so we should see him in RD 2.

 

[Shoe1]

I think while fit Foran will start 6. Schuster will have to wait for an injury to get on the field so we should see him in RD 2.

so you don't think there will be any injuries in the trials?

 

[DUFFMAN]

He’ll be playing , and a lot!

I think it’s a big reason why we signed Foran , as a mentor to the young fella.

I think Foran has been signed with Des not expecting him to be an 80 minute player and not playing every game during the season.
He has been signed as a mentor and to try and get his never say die attitude to rub off onto the other players.

 

[pjayz]

so you don't think there will be any injuries in the trials?

Tom and Kieran will get 1m 19s each in the trials before taking them off.

 

[simon64]

I think he's due for a breakout year 😉

.....and look for me to get chased down The Corso by a dozen bikini clad supermodels waiving their phone numbers at me.....

 

[simon64]

Ooooh this post might either be an absolute winner OR come back to bite you on the bum!!

My money is on the teeth marks.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I think and hope you're right, Mark. There's no reason they both can't be in the side and work together. And to think that Foran, who is still one of the best halves in the NRL and has premiership-winning history when working with DCE, won't get any time in the halves seems crazy to me.

Agree , he wasn’t bought as a 9