The Kieran Forum

[Disco]

I also feel it it stretching the argument to say we've been missing our No. 9. We knew the Blade Runner wouldn't be available before the season started and Levi has played every match.

This I disagree on for two reasons.

1) He was rubbed out late enough that we didnt have time to go to market for a decent alternative. It would be like say Morgan going down in pre-season then claiming the Cowboys arent missing him because it happened in preseason and clifford has played every game.

2) He is taking up the starting hooker portion of our cap

 

[The Indian]

Correct me if im wrong but hasn't Foran played 11 of 14 games this year? Not bad at all! And if you look at his stats regarding try assists, forced drop outs and line break assists he is still high on the list playing in a team running dead last. He would be a massive signing and a bargain price at 1 mil over 3 years. Especially considering we pay chez that for 1 year

Sadly 11 out of 14 games for us would make Kieran one of our most durable players these days. Ironic as that sounds.

It's a big yes from me as a swap out for the vastly over rated Walker.

 

[MadMarcus]

From a “moneyball” standpoint Foran is worth $1m all day long if he played every match in a season. We all know he probably won’t, but at $300k-$350k he’d only have to play a third of them - and with a bit of luck they’d be the ones that matter most at the end of the year.

I have my reservations about his personality because of how he left, but I think the logic of bringing him back is sound, and I have a feeling it’ll happen. He does seem to have matured off the field in recent years, and Des would be good for him on and off the field.

 

[davohan123]

Please no

He is not worth it and we don't need another injury prone player.

Give me Burton and staggs instead thanks

 

[47MVEagle]

Dogs, Donkeys, Raiders, Sharks, Knights, Illawarra, Cowboys, Worriors, Tigers, Easts, Titans and now Storm. All of these clubs have been missing 1,6, and 9s for substantial stretches.
I'd say that the teams least affected by injury and suspensions are: Doesn'tmatta, the 'Riff and Souffs.
I also feel it it stretching the argument to say we've been missing our No. 9. We knew the Blade Runner wouldn't be available before the season started and Levi has played every match.
The reason I believe we are struggling this season is because Turbo is 4/5th of our attack. Without him our average backline looks the most insipid in the comp. I believe Turbo has a greater bearing on the fortunes of our team than any other single player in the NRL - and that includes Scam Smith.
Our best 17 is a top 4 team, but rarely can you put them onto the field. The reserves that DESpicable keeps selecting are simply not up to standard. That's why I keep advocating to give some of our other top 36 a chance.

None of those clubs have had their starting 1, 6 & 9 out concurrently for anywhere near the same period as we have.

Fainu was to be our starting hooker. Had his incident occurred before we let Api go I've no doubt we would have kept Api & not had to look for a new hooker at the last minute like we did. Not only did we let our 2nd choice hooker go, we had to make do with a Newcastle cast off & use a development player as his back up, so we're essentially starting our 3rd choice hooker & spelling him with our 4th choice 9.

Yes we do rely on Turbo for much of our attack but we also need quality halves to distribute the ball to him.

The only young players Des hasnt given a run so far are Hoppa, Schuster & Metcalfe. I suspect we dont know the full story about what's going on with Hoppa.

Who would you drop for Schuster - Cust? Jake? Sirro? Thommo?

Who would you drop for Metcalfe? Garrick at FB? Dropping a debutante in at FB for his first game is a pretty hard ask, dont you think?

Maybe Jorge? Then where does Funa play?

 

[The Who]

The only young players Des hasnt given a run so far are Hoppa, Schuster & Metcalfe. I suspect we dont know the full story about what's going on with Hoppa.

No quite true.
As well as the three you've named we haven't seen this year:
Jade Anderson, 23
Morgan Harper, 21
Tenterfield, 21,
Keith Titmus, 21
Ben Turbo, 18
Miski, 25
Sipley, 25
and only recently did he give Guaca, 21, a chance and he showed he was up to First Grade.

 

[47MVEagle]

No quite true.
As well as the three you've named we haven't seen this year:
Jade Anderson, 23
Morgan Harper, 21
Tenterfield, 21,
Keith Titmus, 21
Ben Turbo, 18
Miski, 25
Sipley, 25
and only recently did he give Guaca, 21, a chance and he showed he was up to First Grade.

I was referring more to the younger players who haven't had a start who have been discussed a lot lately because we all seem to see them as the next cabs off the rank of that group.

My questions still stand though, including the players you've listed above.

Who would you drop to debut each of them as well as Hoppa, Schuster & Metcalfe?

Guaca debuted last year.

 

[Bearfax]

I was referring more to the younger players who haven't had a start who have been discussed a lot lately because we all seem to see them as the next cabs off the rank of that group.

My questions still stand though, including the players you've listed above.

Who would you drop to debut each of them as well as Hoppa, Schuster & Metcalfe?

Guaca debuted last year.

That's not the question you should start with. What you should ask is how is it that Manly have lost the last 6 of 8 games. If we had no one else to look at, we would just have to grin and bear it. But we have options and they aren't being used. If a team is losing so consistently the question isn't who should we drop but rather how many. Its not working, so surely you try a few options and see what does work. Its no use being loyal to players if they cant get the job done. As I recall Steve Mortimer once saying, its not how you play the game, its whether you win or lose. No one remembers losers. Hard, pragmatic, but that's how businesses succeed.

 

[Jigzkiller]

If this is true it just confirms what most think Des has no idea anymore. If the answer is Foran than Des is asking the wrong questions.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

If this is true it just confirms what most think Des has no idea anymore. If the answer is Foran than Des is asking the wrong questions.

Then what is the right question?
Dce needs a good player to make him shine and take pressure off him. Foran will come cheap so cheap for a player of his calibre... this would allow walker to move to center where he belongs and we can finally push parker and jorge out of the side.
Turbo
Garrick
Suli
Walker
Funa
Foran
Cherry

Does this not arouse you?

 

[47MVEagle]

That's not the question you should start with. What you should ask is how is it that Manly have lost the last 6 of 8 games. If we had no one else to look at, we would just have to grin and bear it. But we have options and they aren't being used. If a team is losing so consistently the question isn't who should we drop but rather how many. Its not working, so surely you try a few options and see what does work. Its no use being loyal to players if they cant get the job done. As I recall Steve Mortimer once saying, its not how you play the game, its whether you win or lose. No one remembers losers. Hard, pragmatic, but that's how businesses succeed.

Well, my question follows naturally on from your question - we've established some changes are required.

I'm asking who you will be bringing into the team & who they'll be replacing.

I know you're a big Schuster fan - where would you play him?

-5/8th means dropping Cust. Does Cust deserve to be dropped?

-Lock means dropping Jake. Does Jake deserve to be dropped?

-Second row means dropping Sirro or Thommo as well as leapfrogging Jetski, Waddell & now Olakau'atu. Out of those 5 I'd agree Jetski & possibly Waddell could be dropped but they're good centre & prop cover from the bench.

-Hooker means dropping Levi to the bench & Croker out of the 17 (or Levi out & Croker stays at 14) - I can see the potential here.

What backline position would you put Schuster in & who would be dropped to accommodate him? We have:

-Jorge (incumbent)
-Garrick (incumbent until Elliott's injury)
-Parker (incumbent)
-Suli (incumbent)

...with:
-Funa (debuted this season)
-Miski (debuted last year)

...already queued up to replace any out for injury or poor form.

I'm genuinely interested because while I understand frustration at our performance this season, I've also seen the same 17 click & be very competitive this season so I think our injury toll has more to do with our form than the quality of our 17.

Combined with Des' loyalty & reluctance to drop players I get that it seems he's unwilling to change his ways but when you actually go through the process of who you would drop & who you would replace them with as I've done above, you can see there are already young players in line to play in those positions, so the likes of Schuster & Hoppa are essentially in line behind them.

Dropping Jorge for Hoppa means overlooking Funa or Miski.

Dropping Elliott (now Garrick) for Hoppa means not only throwing a young bloke who hasn't played a full game of footy since he was 16 & has never played an NRL first grade game into one of the most demanding positions on the field, it also means bypassing Funa.

 

[bSw]

If this is true it just confirms what most think Des has no idea anymore. If the answer is Foran than Des is asking the wrong questions.

Or maybe Des knows that with an experienced premiership-winning 6 who compliments DCE, this will free up walker to get wider, and cust to play rake. With one shrewd bargain buy, he can solve 3 problems at once (bring out a more complete play-making combo, replace manase at 9, and give genuine speed and x-factor out wide). Not saying I agree, but def wise to explore all options

 

[The better Robbo]

Or maybe Des knows that with an experienced premiership-winning 6 who compliments DCE, this will free up walker to get wider, and cust to play rake. With one shrewd bargain buy, he can solve 3 problems at once (bring out a more complete play-making combo, replace manase at 9, and give genuine speed and x-factor out wide). Not saying I agree, but def wise to explore all options

Makes perfect sense

 

[double hoops]

Foz is past it. Dollar wise we'd probably be letting 2 of Fainu, Schuster or Hopoate go to fit him in. It would screw this team for the next decade.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

Foz is past it. Dollar wise we'd probably be letting 2 of Fainu, Schuster or Hopoate go to fit him in. It would screw this team for the next decade.

No it wouldn't and past it? The guy is STILL one of the best players have a watch! Look at his numbers they are much better then dce and the dogs are last. Foran would only get about 350k per year. Thats peanuts for an international player with his skill and experience. Then walker can play in the centers and we can get rid of the deadwood to get a decent hooker or 2nd rower or even a winger. Thommo is leaving his money can almost cover both foran and a winger.
He's coming accept it dude
#Foran2021Eagle

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

Or maybe Des knows that with an experienced premiership-winning 6 who compliments DCE, this will free up walker to get wider, and cust to play rake. With one shrewd bargain buy, he can solve 3 problems at once (bring out a more complete play-making combo, replace manase at 9, and give genuine speed and x-factor out wide). Not saying I agree, but def wise to explore all options

Get this man A NEW!

 

[manlyfan76]

Lewis Brown was an international

 

[40 years an eagle]

Or maybe Des knows that with an experienced premiership-winning 6 who compliments DCE,

Yes, it is obvious our MAIN problem is DCE's inability to manage games and as well as the size and length of his contract...and finding an appropriate 6 or 7 is the solution.

Is it Cust, Foran, Schuster? Who knows.
I personally would move him on and spend his 1. whatever million far more wisely and Burton is the answer at 6 and have 600K or so leftover to buy 2 young, fast wingers and top up young Hoppa..

 

[davohan123]

Foz is past it. Dollar wise we'd probably be letting 2 of Fainu, Schuster or Hopoate go to fit him in. It would screw this team for the next decade.

Yep a big big no from me
Foran not worth it at all
rather get staggs let walker go keep cust at 6

 

[double hoops]

Just imagine grand dad's army with Foz and DCE in the halves in 2021. Two ageing halves one who is flat out running and lucky to play half the year. The other who just won't do the hard yards with his short kicking game and end of sets.

Now History repeating anyone remember Hodgko coming back to Man?

Frankly this 6 again league is faster requires better mobility and endurance its young man's game.

Repeat sets are massive, but whilst DCE weakness it's not really forans strength.

And then Schuster I'd fully support moving Jake out of Lock, but can I see DES doing it?

DES getting his cronies from 2011 back together for a ten year reunion runs a big risk of destroying Manly for ten years to follow.