The Kieran Forum

[Nice Beaver]

We are not playing Hoppa but we want Foran back ...... hoppa is too young but foran is not too old.....And we have Cust getting better every game..... well I’m confused!

Exactly!

People are willing to let Hopoate go for $300k when the kid could offer us 10 years of being a gun player.

But want to sign a bloke whose body was shot when he left Manly....let alone 5 years down the track!

Then there his seeming joy at screwing the club over with his "will he, won't he" negotiations that nearly cost us DCE also.

I'll take Hopoate every day of the week personally.

 

[Bearfax]

Well, my question follows naturally on from your question - we've established some changes are required.

I'm asking who you will be bringing into the team & who they'll be replacing.

I know you're a big Schuster fan - where would you play him?

-5/8th means dropping Cust. Does Cust deserve to be dropped?

-Lock means dropping Jake. Does Jake deserve to be dropped?

-Second row means dropping Sirro or Thommo as well as leapfrogging Jetski, Waddell & now Olakau'atu. Out of those 5 I'd agree Jetski & possibly Waddell could be dropped but they're good centre & prop cover from the bench.

-Hooker means dropping Levi to the bench & Croker out of the 17 (or Levi out & Croker stays at 14) - I can see the potential here.

What backline position would you put Schuster in & who would be dropped to accommodate him? We have:

-Jorge (incumbent)
-Garrick (incumbent until Elliott's injury)
-Parker (incumbent)
-Suli (incumbent)

...with:
-Funa (debuted this season)
-Miski (debuted last year)

...already queued up to replace any out for injury or poor form.

I'm genuinely interested because while I understand frustration at our performance this season, I've also seen the same 17 click & be very competitive this season so I think our injury toll has more to do with our form than the quality of our 17.

Combined with Des' loyalty & reluctance to drop players I get that it seems he's unwilling to change his ways but when you actually go through the process of who you would drop & who you would replace them with as I've done above, you can see there are already young players in line to play in those positions, so the likes of Schuster & Hoppa are essentially in line behind them.

Dropping Jorge for Hoppa means overlooking Funa or Miski.

Dropping Elliott (now Garrick) for Hoppa means not only throwing a young bloke who hasn't played a full game of footy since he was 16 & has never played an NRL first grade game into one of the most demanding positions on the field, it also means bypassing Funa.

Team I would like to see if Hopa goes and Fainu stays, would be something like this in general terms. Keppie could handle second row as could Parker (have five because all are good in the bench group and Cust may be hooker). Cust would make an excellent back up for Fainu. Parker is a back row forward in my opinion. If Hopa stayed I'd give him Garrick's spot. This is a early 2021 thought. If Fainu was unavailable I would be considering giving Cust the role. Thompson I believe wont be staying.

Turbo
Garrick (Hopa if he stays)
Suli (maybe Burbo late 2021 if Suli fails)
Walker
Funa
Schuster
DCE
AFB
Fainu (or Cust)
Taupau
Sironen
Waddell
Jake

Cust
Keppie
Paseka
Olakau'atu
Parker

As for the here and now I would have Hopa at full back. He may be raw but he has more going for him than either Garrick or Elliott at full back, who offer little in attack. I would have Schuster at first on the bench, so. like Hopa, he gets game time for 2021

 

[Midnight Rambler]

1.Turbo
2.Jorge.
3.Walker
4.Suli
5.Garrick
6.Foran
7.Cherry Evans
I’d love to see this backline...very risky though however.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

Then what is the right question?
Dce needs a good player to make him shine and take pressure off him. Foran will come cheap so cheap for a player of his calibre... this would allow walker to move to center where he belongs and we can finally push parker and jorge out of the side.
Turbo
Garrick
Suli
Walker
Funa
Foran
Cherry

Does this not arouse you?

Gives me a hard on...

 

[ManlyTragic]

Why do you want to make
a centre a 5/8;
a 5/8 a hooker;
a winger a second rower
a centre a second rower

I’m confused!

 

[Scorpio]

Then what is the right question?
Dce needs a good player to make him shine and take pressure off him. Foran will come cheap so cheap for a player of his calibre... this would allow walker to move to center where he belongs and we can finally push parker and jorge out of the side.
Turbo
Garrick
Suli
Walker
Funa
Foran
Cherry

Does this not arouse you?

Cust is doing fine and isn't on the sidelines half the time.

We currently have a replacement #9 and the guy who spent the most games at fullback for us this year scored zero tries in 2020.

Signing Foran won't solve anything.

 

[The Who]

At some stage we are going to have to see if players such as Titmus, Sipley, Tenterfield, Harper, Metcalf, Anderson, Risky (Miski), Burbo and The Shoe have what it takes to become regular First Graders.
We know that Guaca, 21, is a keeper, and the Worriers will kindly allow us to judge if our local Hoppa Jrn is a good'un or not. Miski and Sipley are both 25; Anderson is 23, Metcalf, Tenterfield, Titmus and Harper are all 21; The Shoe and Burbo are 18.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Well, my question follows naturally on from your question - we've established some changes are required.

I'm asking who you will be bringing into the team & who they'll be replacing.

I know you're a big Schuster fan - where would you play him?

-5/8th means dropping Cust. Does Cust deserve to be dropped?

-Lock means dropping Jake. Does Jake deserve to be dropped?

-Second row means dropping Sirro or Thommo as well as leapfrogging Jetski, Waddell & now Olakau'atu. Out of those 5 I'd agree Jetski & possibly Waddell could be dropped but they're good centre & prop cover from the bench.

-Hooker means dropping Levi to the bench & Croker out of the 17 (or Levi out & Croker stays at 14) - I can see the potential here.

What backline position would you put Schuster in & who would be dropped to accommodate him? We have:

-Jorge (incumbent)
-Garrick (incumbent until Elliott's injury)
-Parker (incumbent)
-Suli (incumbent)

...with:
-Funa (debuted this season)
-Miski (debuted last year)

...already queued up to replace any out for injury or poor form.

I'm genuinely interested because while I understand frustration at our performance this season, I've also seen the same 17 click & be very competitive this season so I think our injury toll has more to do with our form than the quality of our 17.

Combined with Des' loyalty & reluctance to drop players I get that it seems he's unwilling to change his ways but when you actually go through the process of who you would drop & who you would replace them with as I've done above, you can see there are already young players in line to play in those positions, so the likes of Schuster & Hoppa are essentially in line behind them.

Dropping Jorge for Hoppa means overlooking Funa or Miski.

Dropping Elliott (now Garrick) for Hoppa means not only throwing a young bloke who hasn't played a full game of footy since he was 16 & has never played an NRL first grade game into one of the most demanding positions on the field, it also means bypassing Funa.

Cust --> 9.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Cust is doing fine and isn't on the sidelines half the time.

We currently have a replacement #9 and the guy who spent the most games at fullback for us this year scored zero tries in 2020.

Signing Foran won't solve anything.

Even with trbo our attack was non-existent w/ dce proving more than ever that he is a 5/8, not an organising halfback. Foran on the other hand has made the bulldogs attack (the bulldogs!) look somewhat cohesive when he has played. He would solve our problems with structure as well as any player in the game

 

[40 years an eagle]

Even with trbo our attack was non-existent w/ dce proving more than ever that he is a 5/8, not an organising halfback.

Can't remember how long I have been saying this. He would appreciate the space.Thank you.

 

[Bearfax]

Of course if Des gave Schuster a chance, we might have part of the answer.

 

[Scorpio]

Even with trbo our attack was non-existent w/ dce proving more than ever that he is a 5/8, not an organising halfback. Foran on the other hand has made the bulldogs attack (the bulldogs!) look somewhat cohesive when he has played. He would solve our problems with structure as well as any player in the game

...When he has played

He has played 11/14 games this year but only about 50% of games in the previous 4 seasons. This season is an outlier and 11/14 is still under 80% which is the bare minimum of what you want.

He is now 30 and even more likely to pick up injuries going forward. Not to mention he puts guys like Cust or Schuster even further back in the queue.

Obviously there are problems at the club and I don't see how signing an injury-prone #6 is going to fix anything.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

...When he has played

He has played 11/14 games this year but only about 50% of games in the previous 4 seasons. This season is an outlier and 11/14 is still under 80% which is the bare minimum of what you want.

He is now 30 and even more likely to pick up injuries going forward. Not to mention he puts guys like Cust or Schuster even further back in the queue.

Obviously there are problems at the club and I don't see how signing an injury-prone #6 is going to fix anything.

Then what do we do?

 

[Disco]

I'd find it very hard to bring myself around to supporting Foran

 

[manlyfan76]

What a great idea this is, give Foran the opportunity to potentially sue the club twice.

I can see this working.

 

[Scorpio]

Then what do we do?

For a start... we have an NYC-winning halfback playing at #6 at the moment, to me he is doing a good job and is not the reason why this squad is faltering.

We also have options like Metcalf and Schuster who can't/aren't getting a run despite being very highly rated. How long do you think they will all hang around (or continue to put in good performances) if they get bumped back to the bench or reserves because we prefer to play a 30yo Foran with a long injury history instead?

I don't know who will be moved on to make way for him either but that would be a consideration.

As for the reason the entire squad is playing like cellar dwellers, that is a separate discussion and not solved by one signing - the whole being greater than the sum of its parts and all.

 

[manlyfan76]

Parramatta Eels skipper Kieran Foran considers suing Manly Sea Eagles over $140,000 shortfall

Kieran Foran is considering taking legal action against Manly over money the club allegedly owes him from his time on the northern beaches.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Bearfax]

Look. Recalling the wonders of Foran 2011-12 and thinking this is going to save us is wishful thinking. Its the same thinking that has got us into this mess. Manly has to look to the future, not the past. Des 2005-11 is yesterday. He succeeded because he had a tight knit of young very talented players. It wasn't all Des, it was an outstanding team across the park. Manly don't have that today. A good set of forwards and quite frankly only two outstanding backs in Turbo and DCE. The rest are a mix of reserve graders and fair first graders.

But Des had the opportunity to change all that. Young outstanding kids on the rise in the backline. Yet he stuck with the same average group except when injury forced his hand. Anyone can see that this is not sensible action, not what you expect of a first grade coach. He had gold in his hand and he's allowing it to slip through his fingers like gold dust. Someone needs to force Des to get his head out of the ground and start rebuilding the team, and that means promoting talented youth. Otherwise we are going to see these kids take other clubs to the stratosphere, while Manly scrambles around in caves heading for our first spoon.

 

[SeaEaglez]

I'd find it very hard to bring myself around to supporting Foran

Me too
But I could cop it if we were winning and watching good footy!

 

[susan]

Well, my question follows naturally on from your question - we've established some changes are required.

I'm asking who you will be bringing into the team & who they'll be replacing.

I know you're a big Schuster fan - where would you play him?

-5/8th means dropping Cust. Does Cust deserve to be dropped?

-Lock means dropping Jake. Does Jake deserve to be dropped?

-Second row means dropping Sirro or Thommo as well as leapfrogging Jetski, Waddell & now Olakau'atu. Out of those 5 I'd agree Jetski & possibly Waddell could be dropped but they're good centre & prop cover from the bench.

-Hooker means dropping Levi to the bench & Croker out of the 17 (or Levi out & Croker stays at 14) - I can see the potential here.

What backline position would you put Schuster in & who would be dropped to accommodate him? We have:

-Jorge (incumbent)
-Garrick (incumbent until Elliott's injury)
-Parker (incumbent)
-Suli (incumbent)

...with:
-Funa (debuted this season)
-Miski (debuted last year)

...already queued up to replace any out for injury or poor form.

I'm genuinely interested because while I understand frustration at our performance this season, I've also seen the same 17 click & be very competitive this season so I think our injury toll has more to do with our form than the quality of our 17.

Combined with Des' loyalty & reluctance to drop players I get that it seems he's unwilling to change his ways but when you actually go through the process of who you would drop & who you would replace them with as I've done above, you can see there are already young players in line to play in those positions, so the likes of Schuster & Hoppa are essentially in line behind them.

Dropping Jorge for Hoppa means overlooking Funa or Miski.

Dropping Elliott (now Garrick) for Hoppa means not only throwing a young bloke who hasn't played a full game of footy since he was 16 & has never played an NRL first grade game into one of the most demanding positions on the field, it also means bypassing Funa.

What does “ incumbent “ even mean. What does it entitle Parker , Garrick Tafua to? We lose every week. Isn’t it obvious the incumbents are the problem.
The game is totally different to last year and the first two games. It’s a different beast.

These are the blokes who are being embarrassed out wide each week. Two are reserve graders and one is a good player well on the wane. None would be part of any other clubs first 17 plans.

To be honest I don’t care who replaces them. We KNOW they can’t do the job. Their replacements may fail but we DONT KNOW that yet.

If the three players above plus Waddell and Jestski are part of our best 17, Fainu is out and Hoppa goes we will probably get the spoon next year.