Unless you're playing behind a Qld Origin pack, it's all good.@Bearfax Mate big fan of your posts, and you make fair points in defence of DCE. But just on this point re stats vs what we actually observe, I must strongly disagree. A game of footy is more art than science. Fantasy points for example is where DCE excels as the team's only kicker, he knows very well that number of kicks, kick metres, receipts and passes, dummy passes, and conversions, all score big in terms of individual accolades.
But if the halfback, captain, principal playmaker, and game manager does not help the overall team performance, then only an observer can judge whether he has been effective. Taupau, for example, still had strong 'individual' stats last year, and journos who don't know a thing about footy wrote up how such an 'in form' star of the game is still off contract etc, yet coaches at most clubs knew very well that his effectiveness for the team's benefit had diminished. Stats will never illustrate the full story.
@jbb/james is correct in pointing out that DCE has always had an excuse. It's either no suitable 6, no 9, no forwards, no backs, but realistically, we have had our fair share of decent players throughout the last 8 years. When does he accept any responsibility?
Couldn't care less how many kick metres he makes in a game, if he causes confusion for his team mates, doesn't direct our attack in a focused manner, and takes horrible last tackle options, then that's not up to standard, particularly for a player of his standing in the game.
As Joey and all the great 7s constantly harp on about, the truest way to create opportunities for your players, is to play DIRECT, run at the line, hard, and fast, and DCE has never been willing to put his body on the line for his mates.
Apologies for the rant...
The Daly Cherrygraph
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Unless you're playing behind a Qld Origin pack, it's all good.
My point was the forward pack is not to blame for DCE not straightening the attack . sure he would love more room but his decisions to crab are on him. who plays on the other side is important of course but when the ball is in his hands his choice is to fade
manly havnt beaten many top sides for a couple of seasons with DCE. His scalp belt is hardly littered with much more than the tigers anyway. That point was how foran gave oku and koula early ball and the team looked better.as we did last week. Small sample size i get but ignoring it is a choice. Result was not my point, structure and the ability to make others better by not hogging the space and time was the highlight
that whole supercoach thing is beyond me, except there was a pod cast where DCE did himselves no favours about both playing it, and his stats from memory, des is well known for his money ball theories . Not sure if they are related but could possibly be . DCE looks like he plays for stats rather than his team IMO. How mighty he could be
DCE has wonderful skills and probably is the best backerupperer since terry lamb so i dont find that surprising. If we were to talk try assists id imagine he has way more last try assists than first due to the tighter nature of the contest. its the same thing in stat land but we all know its not
im my opinion using stats to gauge footy players should be a guide only Due to the perspective of those taking them.
as someone who rewatches games and keeps stats while i do, i often wonder if mr mcgoo is in charge anyway.
real example not perspective
last season against the dogs in rd 5 i think, in hurricane conditions matt burton took saab back to u15 with his bombs,not sure if he has recovered yet. at the other end DCE tried to play around the dogs. In the first half we had 5 kicks,
1 to DCE and 4 between croker, davey and tapau. he is very much like the refs we complain about in that we know the even up is coming when the contest is over
just curious should we give other players the same benefit if the try to hard and screw the pooch
over
cherry_poppins
Bencher
Croker is too slow and too predicable and our forward pack the last few years hasn't built the platform for which an elite half to work
DCE hate is pretty old at this point
DCE hate is pretty old at this point
Don't see how these opinions are considered 'hate'? DCE is an outstanding individual off the field, a true gentleman, and an elite athlete. I'm sure he's a great guy. But footy is footy
Tbh, DCE hasn't had much competition for selection re other QLD halfback these last few years. I would also say that even his 'great' performances were 98% as a result of better players around him having stellar performances.
I Disagree. And yes, that's with a capital D.
The idea that he'd be picked for Australia 18 times if he wouldn't put his body on the line? Seriously!
Yep, those silly Queenslanders always pick captains who aren't willing to put their body on the line.
Let alone captaining Manly!
He deserves a severe lashing for not being an Immortal, but that's about all.
Well laid out points from both sides. I'm usually a DCE supporter and most of that support stems from his stellar rookie season, his performance in rep teams and the fact that we had him for $400k less and Foran, Des and the recruiting team farked us into the situation we are still suffering from. I now don't know where I sit. DCE has 3 years to define/redefine what his legacy at Manly will be. I'll be cheering for him but he has a lot to prove to go down in history as a Manly great.
Fair enough. Just always seemed so obvious to me - I was first made aware of this from a couple ex-players who have played with him at both club and state level (not that this validates my opinion in any way), and since then (I was a staunch supporter of DCE, and was even of the opinion that Manly had actually kept the 'better' one at the time, in relation to Foz), however watched him a lot closer and have only been more sure of this over the years. But I love all our players, and all the support they have, and want nothing more than for them to be successful. Prove me wrong Chez. No excuses this year
G'day all,Isn't standing in front of 18 stone behemoths running at you flat strap intent of turning you into roadkill putting your body on the line?
cheers mike
cheers mike
Mal Cochrane
I'm not really Mal Cochrane...
The problem is that overplaying his hand due to perceived poor form of other players just intensifies the issue. Feed the backs good ball and let them learn the tools of the trade, get out of their own rut etc. We have backs who can make something on their own without DCE holding it for seconds too long, jinking and stuttering and minimising support players time and space.
i believe no one here hates DCE, just pointing out the numerous areas he can improve on. I think if he shares the load of having to be THE player who makes something happen, places the team strategically around the park with boot and ball, chooses his time to shine wisely and continue his impressive line break support ability, the team will benefit enormously.
i believe no one here hates DCE, just pointing out the numerous areas he can improve on. I think if he shares the load of having to be THE player who makes something happen, places the team strategically around the park with boot and ball, chooses his time to shine wisely and continue his impressive line break support ability, the team will benefit enormously.
Bearfax
Grizzly old fart
Pete I appreciate the fact that as you perceive things it determines how you assess. Trouble is its perspective and perspective is not reality, its an interpretation based on how you interpret information.
Try reading the diversity of comments just on this site. Are those who disagree with your position wrong? I read so many of the comments on these sites and consistently what I see is that we all see things differently. Why? I'm not going to get into elements that bring this about. But we interpret differently and as we experience we reach conclusions. So does everyone else and yet our conclusions are often opposed to others and we try to understand how that can be.
A perfect example is politics. I have strong right wing friends and strong left wing friends. All are good, open minded smart people and each would be able to convincingly explain why tey see things the way they do. They arent being dishonest and yet the views taken are opposed to others who are just as open minded.
Same goes with interpreting something as inane as the value of a footballer's performance. The reality is, we all subliminally see what we want to see to reinforce our beliefs, but we take far less notice of things that dont support our view. We dont do it consciously and its quite normal. We just hold, as with politics, pre set positions. The only way around it is to effectively measure what you can statistically. If I was in court what I observe has far less value than what can be shown through evidence. We are what we are and we see things as we want to see them. Subliminally we are biased and that's normal. Its accepting that we just may be wrong based on the evidence, that ensures we dont remain closed minded.
No first grade footy player is soft, but that doesnt mean he doesnt take the softer options . He defends those that run him as its out of his control but he preserves himself with what is…….no doubt
like what else could it be, an allergy,
Just for a momentary change from the Cherry-bashing, came across this snippet about his background, from happier times 
"...The Redcliffe Dolphins junior has played 26 games this season but Cherry-Evans has had anything but a saloon passage to the big time.
Just two years ago, Manly's 15 NRL rivals shunned the halfback, rating him too small to succeed in first grade.
Handed a meagre scholarship by the Sea Eagles, Cherry-Evans moved to Sydney but was required to serve his apprenticeship last season playing for feeder-club Sunshine Coast in the Queensland Cup.
It is estimated he flew almost 50,000km in total last season as he chased his NRL dream..."
"...The Redcliffe Dolphins junior has played 26 games this season but Cherry-Evans has had anything but a saloon passage to the big time.
Just two years ago, Manly's 15 NRL rivals shunned the halfback, rating him too small to succeed in first grade.
Handed a meagre scholarship by the Sea Eagles, Cherry-Evans moved to Sydney but was required to serve his apprenticeship last season playing for feeder-club Sunshine Coast in the Queensland Cup.
It is estimated he flew almost 50,000km in total last season as he chased his NRL dream..."
cherry_poppins
Bencher
His intellect scares league people, fans includedJust for a momentary change from the Cherry-bashing, came across this snippet about his background, from happier times
"...The Redcliffe Dolphins junior has played 26 games this season but Cherry-Evans has had anything but a saloon passage to the big time.
Just two years ago, Manly's 15 NRL rivals shunned the halfback, rating him too small to succeed in first grade.
Handed a meagre scholarship by the Sea Eagles, Cherry-Evans moved to Sydney but was required to serve his apprenticeship last season playing for feeder-club Sunshine Coast in the Queensland Cup.
It is estimated he flew almost 50,000km in total last season as he chased his NRL dream..."
Look at the brains to have a go, average intelligence around the level of Watmong the retired parra player
Yikes, also anyone who questions his guts in defense has never watched a game he's played in either of their lives, absolutely absurd and downright stupid comment, I'm not saying he's a gun tackler, he stays too high and loses ground, but 9 times out of 10 he'll make the tackle
Agree. DCE works very hard and is fit and courageous. Its just his decision making in both defence and attack that needs readjustment and improvement. We should never stop learning regardless of age and experience. Once you stop trying to learn and improve you fall behind.
DCE leads Manly a different way after stint with Brownlow ace
ByChristian Nicolussi
February 25, 2023 — 1.30pmDaly Cherry-Evans returned to Manly a different man after spending time in Melbourne working with Carlton captain and Brownlow medallist Patrick Cripps.
Cherry-Evans and Josh Schuster made the trek last month to work on their kicking technique. The Manly skipper struck up an immediate rapport with Cripps.
“Since that trip I’ve seen significant growth in his leadership,” coach Anthony Seibold told The Sun-Herald of Cherry-Evans. “Just the way he asks questions of others, the way he presents himself in front of the group, and even the way he owns the huddle. I’m proud of the way he’s led the group since he’s come back.”
Cripps also took a lot out of the experience.
“Spending time discussing our approaches to leadership and how it overlaps in both games we play was really worthwhile,” Cripps said.
“The best part was just asking each other questions about experiences we faced as a club, and especially Daly, with his experience playing for Manly, Queensland in Origin and Australia.”
Cherry-Evans, 34, has had to use all his experience to adapt to playing under another coach, and to dust himself off after losing the Kangaroos No. 7 jersey to Nathan Cleary. While he helped prepare the Roos to win the World Cup, he won’t let on how much it crushed him not being on the field in the final.
Whenever heads have rolled on the northern beaches, Cherry-Evans has been the one most affected. Nobody works more closely with the coach than the club’s $10 million man.
Cherry-Evans started under Des Hasler in 2011, then played for Geoff Toovey when Hasler left amid controversy to join the Bulldogs. Trent Barrett took the helm from 2016-18. He also left amid drama as Hasler made his second coming. Hasler was shown the door at the end of last season after again falling out with club management. Seibold is the club’s fifth coach (counting Hasler twice) in just over 12 years.
“This is my fifth change of coach, but you just have to embrace it, and I’ve never been one to dwell on change,” Cherry-Evans said.
“You always get a bit of sadness when it happens. I’ve had four really good coaches who have had an impact on me as a player and person. He [Hasler] was a very loyal man, which is something I will always appreciate.
“I’ve prided myself on being able to adapt, be it a rule change, a change in game plan or even a change in coach.”
Cherry-Evans worked with Seibold when he was an assistant to Barrett. He said the former South Sydney and Brisbane mentor had galvanised the playing group.
If Seibold’s time at the Sea Eagles is to be a success, he needs Tom Trbojevic fit and firing. He needs Cherry-Evans at his best nearly as much.
His World Cup setback has motivated Cherry-Evans. He also had to pick himself up after being stripped of the Kangaroos vice-captaincy, especially as coach Mal Meninga wanted him as James Tedesco’s deputy.
“I’m a competitive guy; I went over to England with the motivation to be the Australian halfback, but it didn’t work out,” Cherry-Evans said.
“That’s life. Sometimes you don’t get what you want, and you’re not the right man for the job. I’ve accepted it. But it’s given me extra motivation to keep my game at a higher level, and to try and go to another level this year with my teammates.
“I got dropped from the Australian team. That keeps the fire burning in the belly. It’s Nathan’s [Cleary] jersey until he retires now, but if a situation pops up where he’s not available, I want to be playing good footy so I’m straight back in there.”
Club legend Ken Arthurson, 93, still rates Cherry-Evans above Cleary, and says it is not his Manly bias.
“Irrespective of his age, in my view he’s still as good, if not the best halfback in the game,” Arthurson said.
Cherry-Evans will team up with Cooper Johns next Saturday against Canterbury in the Sea Eagles’ season opener. A few years ago, Johns made a point of studying the top halfbacks, taking one element of their game and trying to implement it into his own.
He liked the way Cleary dominated the middle third of the field, and noted Cherry-Evans was always pushing up in support.
“Dad [Matthew Johns] always said ‘Chez’ was the best supporting half in the NRL,” Johns said. “If the ball goes the other way, his job isn’t done and he’ll push through the middle of the field. That’s why he gets so many long-distance tries. He’s always looking to capitalise on line-breaks.”
It’s been a difficult period on the northern beaches, but there’s a different vibe about the club in 2023. They have a new coach, and a skipper with a point to prove
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Thanks @Woodsie, great insight into DCE and it'll be interesting to see the 'growth in his leadership' from round 1. I'm hoping to see an improvement particularly the differences transpire on the field.DCE leads Manly a different way after stint with Brownlow ace
ByChristian Nicolussi
February 25, 2023 — 1.30pm
Daly Cherry-Evans returned to Manly a different man after spending time in Melbourne working with Carlton captain and Brownlow medallist Patrick Cripps.
Cherry-Evans and Josh Schuster made the trek last month to work on their kicking technique. The Manly skipper struck up an immediate rapport with Cripps.
“Since that trip I’ve seen significant growth in his leadership,” coach Anthony Seibold told The Sun-Herald of Cherry-Evans. “Just the way he asks questions of others, the way he presents himself in front of the group, and even the way he owns the huddle. I’m proud of the way he’s led the group since he’s come back.”
Cripps also took a lot out of the experience.
“Spending time discussing our approaches to leadership and how it overlaps in both games we play was really worthwhile,” Cripps said.
“The best part was just asking each other questions about experiences we faced as a club, and especially Daly, with his experience playing for Manly, Queensland in Origin and Australia.”
Cherry-Evans, 34, has had to use all his experience to adapt to playing under another coach, and to dust himself off after losing the Kangaroos No. 7 jersey to Nathan Cleary. While he helped prepare the Roos to win the World Cup, he won’t let on how much it crushed him not being on the field in the final.
Whenever heads have rolled on the northern beaches, Cherry-Evans has been the one most affected. Nobody works more closely with the coach than the club’s $10 million man.
Cherry-Evans started under Des Hasler in 2011, then played for Geoff Toovey when Hasler left amid controversy to join the Bulldogs. Trent Barrett took the helm from 2016-18. He also left amid drama as Hasler made his second coming. Hasler was shown the door at the end of last season after again falling out with club management. Seibold is the club’s fifth coach (counting Hasler twice) in just over 12 years.
“This is my fifth change of coach, but you just have to embrace it, and I’ve never been one to dwell on change,” Cherry-Evans said.
“You always get a bit of sadness when it happens. I’ve had four really good coaches who have had an impact on me as a player and person. He [Hasler] was a very loyal man, which is something I will always appreciate.
“I’ve prided myself on being able to adapt, be it a rule change, a change in game plan or even a change in coach.”
Cherry-Evans worked with Seibold when he was an assistant to Barrett. He said the former South Sydney and Brisbane mentor had galvanised the playing group.
If Seibold’s time at the Sea Eagles is to be a success, he needs Tom Trbojevic fit and firing. He needs Cherry-Evans at his best nearly as much.
His World Cup setback has motivated Cherry-Evans. He also had to pick himself up after being stripped of the Kangaroos vice-captaincy, especially as coach Mal Meninga wanted him as James Tedesco’s deputy.
“I’m a competitive guy; I went over to England with the motivation to be the Australian halfback, but it didn’t work out,” Cherry-Evans said.
“That’s life. Sometimes you don’t get what you want, and you’re not the right man for the job. I’ve accepted it. But it’s given me extra motivation to keep my game at a higher level, and to try and go to another level this year with my teammates.
“I got dropped from the Australian team. That keeps the fire burning in the belly. It’s Nathan’s [Cleary] jersey until he retires now, but if a situation pops up where he’s not available, I want to be playing good footy so I’m straight back in there.”
Club legend Ken Arthurson, 93, still rates Cherry-Evans above Cleary, and says it is not his Manly bias.
“Irrespective of his age, in my view he’s still as good, if not the best halfback in the game,” Arthurson said.
Cherry-Evans will team up with Cooper Johns next Saturday against Canterbury in the Sea Eagles’ season opener. A few years ago, Johns made a point of studying the top halfbacks, taking one element of their game and trying to implement it into his own.
I can't help but wonder about the very last sentence....it's like it's unfinished imo. Wondering what element Cooper took from DCE's game? Whatever the case, let's hope their combination is a winner.
Come to think of it there was another line .. from memory it was always backing up ..
manlyfan76
There is no A.I. Just better computers
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| Team | P | W | L | PD | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
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6 | 5 | 1 | 59 | 12 |
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6 | 5 | 1 | 20 | 12 |
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6 | 4 | 2 | 53 | 10 |
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6 | 4 | 2 | 30 | 10 |
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7 | 4 | 2 | 25 | 9 |
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7 | 4 | 3 | 40 | 8 |
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7 | 4 | 3 | 24 | 8 |
|
7 | 4 | 3 | -8 | 8 |
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7 | 4 | 3 | -18 | 8 |
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7 | 3 | 3 | 20 | 7 |
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7 | 3 | 4 | 31 | 6 |
|
7 | 3 | 4 | 17 | 6 |
|
6 | 2 | 4 | -31 | 6 |
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7 | 3 | 4 | -41 | 6 |
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7 | 2 | 5 | -29 | 4 |
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6 | 1 | 5 | -102 | 4 |
|
6 | 0 | 6 | -90 | 2 |
