The Daly Cherrygraph

[Mal Cochrane]

So DCE would take a 200k pay cut if it guaranteed a GF, but since it's not guaranteed, he just takes that 200k 😆

Love the off-season!

I'd prefer he take a hit, and replace for example 2 x 550k worth players and upgrade to 2 x 700k players. 300k off his nose.

If he's on 1.2m, then 900k .... I'd try to live with that and get a representative U17 or U19 half back to spend the off-season with him and take him through videos and practical demonstrations on how to read the game and how your team is going the previous 10 mins to drive the team around the park, kick to corners, into touch, understand percentage plays to go with his eyes up football, and when to use either.

 

[Bearfax]

I read somewhere on this thread about the virtues of 'evidence based perspective'. Hard to argue with that. I recall a friend telling me that some people love evidence until they get some, then not so much.
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Game playing with stats is an old bit of fun. But what you're describing here is about the teams those players are playing in, not the player. For example I noted you conveniently left out Cherry Evans win loss ratio 2011-15. Its 69%, near the top. I could show similarly selective stats to show Thurston at one stage with a win loss ratio under 30% and Moses under 40% over a couple of years. Win/loss ratios are meaningless when assessing a player. You want to assess the player, assess him in respect of his specific elements, not whether he's in top side or not. Should I for example suggest Ponga is a poor player because his win/loss ratio is 41%. Ben Hunt's career stats are 52%. Sorry but this is not statistically valid

 

[Bearfax]

DCE has been one of the top few halfbacks every single year of his career. Does that mean his huge deal was worth it? No! We would need to have won a comp or at least made a couple of grand finals to make the deal worth it.
Nevertheless he remains a top half (in my opinion anyway) and second only to Cleary. However Hynes could go past him if he keeps his form (hard to see Hynes getting a go in Origin though). Walker might also exceed DCE although that remains to be seen.

SER8 you know as well as I that one player does not make a team. Some players are blessed with playing in teams surrounded by some of the best in the game. Some have to do their best with weaker players. You have to have elite players in your side if you hope to win the camp, dont you think? Whether DCE was worth what Manly paid is now irrelevant now and quite frankly the clubs fault not DCEs (spilt milk so to speak). So sticking it to him makes no sense. Easy to forget that Manly played a bad hand with the back end contracts earlier on and then making a serious error with the salary cap, leading to a loss of a 2/3 million dollars lost over two years. None of this is DCE's fault. He gets out there and does his best and because of his fitness level and lack of injuries we've got almost full value for the money put in (whether it was too much or not). Why continue to put him down? Its obvious those who assess players hold him in high regard

 

[Seagles68]

So DCE would take a 200k pay cut if it guaranteed a GF, but since it's not guaranteed, he just takes that 200k 😆

Love the off-season!

I'd prefer he take a hit, and replace for example 2 x 550k worth players and upgrade to 2 x 700k players. 300k off his nose.

If he's on 1.2m, then 900k .... I'd try to live with that and get a representative U17 or U19 half back to spend the off-season with him and take him through videos and practical demonstrations on how to read the game and how your team is going the previous 10 mins to drive the team around the park, kick to corners, into touch, understand percentage plays to go with his eyes up football, and when to use either.

Is the U17/U19 rep showing DCE those things??

 

[Bearfax]

Bear you’ve given zero stats or facts that I didn’t already know mate, you’ve definitely failed in backing up your argument. Being a novelist, a parole officer, union rep doesn’t give you more insight than others into looking at a player or looking at statistics (evidence? it’s footy) for that matter. I mean why else state what you do, except to impose on people in here that you can interpret stats better? Lol, But thanks for your CV, 😉

As you’ve said we are only little people. And both our opposing opinions means little. But it is a forum for people to discuss, praise and judge players. Place wouldn’t exist if we didn’t. And it would be extremely boring if we all agreed on everything.

So back to that bet mate?

Hozza I'm done with trying to explain why I think DCE is a top player, a rating obviously those in the Manly club, Dally M, Fantasy Coach, and rep selectors seem to agree with. Obviously you seem to think you know better. So be it, that's your right. I have given stats in the past and I'm not going to go over all this again. Sick of repeating myself. I'd also like to point out that I did not give you, as you call it my CV, which might I add is significantly abbreviated, to show off or at least that's how I interpret. Totally missed the point. That was not the purpose at all. I was letting you into my world so you could see where I was coming from, and the fact that human nature, attitudes and motivations are bread and butter to me just as machines are to mechanics (which by the way I'm hopeless with). I was exposing myself, something you choose to hide. I was seeking reciprocation and all I got was put down. Not interested Hozza. DCE was again selected as No 1 half Internationally. That's not opinion, that is fact.

 

[Mal Cochrane]

Is the U17/U19 rep showing DCE those things??

I'm confident alot of junior rep halves have developed the skills of steering a team around the park, speed and slow momentum etc, instead of just playing what's in front of them for 80 mins, and try stuff of the top of their head, like kicking the ball with 1 minute to go against the storm that manly nearly lost, or his low % play against the cowboys gifting them their final try, when manly required a half to steady the ship.

Yeah, I think halves in the women's nrl teams could explain and show DCE that basic concept.

 

[hozza]

Hozza I'm done with trying to explain why I think DCE is a top player, a rating obviously those in the Manly club, Dally M, Fantasy Coach, and rep selectors seem to agree with. Obviously you seem to think you know better. So be it, that's your right. I have given stats in the past and I'm not going to go over all this again. Sick of repeating myself. I'd also like to point out that I did not give you, as you call it my CV, which might I add is significantly abbreviated, to show off or at least that's how I interpret. Totally missed the point. That was not the purpose at all. I was letting you into my world so you could see where I was coming from, and the fact that human nature, attitudes and motivations are bread and butter to me just as machines are to mechanics (which by the way I'm hopeless with). I was exposing myself, something you choose to hide. I was seeking reciprocation and all I got was put down. Not interested Hozza. DCE was again selected as No 1 half Internationally. That's not opinion, that is fact.

Lmao I see you changed your initial response Bear. You know, where you again went into all your 10000 reports to judges and how that somehow equates to judging a football player. Guess what mate it doesn’t. All it does is make you come across as someone that thinks he’s above other posters on here. Intended or not. Smart move removing it. Now for me personally? I’m a Safety Officer on the Rail mate, I’m trained to ensure the safety of workers, trained in track certification, trained in investigating rail derailments and incidents. You know why I didn’t give it? Cause it’s a Footy forum and means fuk all when judging a players ability.

Secondly iv never said I know better. Lol In fact iv repeatedly said my opinion means little ( none). Iv simply stated why I don’t like Dce as a player and that hes overrated. But especially because he’s a person who divides players and fans alike. The exact opposite of what real leaders do. Again it’s a forum. And personally I love a bit of back and forth. Your the one that’s seems frustrated ( angry?) that everyone doesn’t agree with you…

Lol Again mate, being picked in the squad of 30 means little, certainly doesn’t mean he’ll be the no 1 halfback. Cleary will be halfback when the drums are beating, there is no doubt.

Lastly and in all seriousness, iv no doubt you’ve had a long, successful and storied career. There is no slight intended on that. Like I said, just a bit of banter..

So how about that bet? Lol 🤪

 

[rmd]

He's been picked in the squad and clearly he'll be No 2 halfback behind Cleary, he was the highest Dally M scorer by miles from any other Sea Eagles player and deserves his place in the squad.

Yes, he can be 'rocks' and 'diamonds', however, go and look at our season and he was more 'diamonds'. One player does not make a team.

 

[Seagles68]

I'm confident alot of junior rep halves have developed the skills of steering a team around the park, speed and slow momentum etc, instead of just playing what's in front of them for 80 mins, and try stuff of the top of their head, like kicking the ball with 1 minute to go against the storm that manly nearly lost, or his low % play against the cowboys gifting them their final try, when manly required a half to steady the ship.

Yeah, I think halves in the women's nrl teams could explain and show DCE that basic concept.

Yeah, I figured that's what you meant. I can't say I'm a full on anti Cherry supporter but he does frustrate the hell out of me doing what already been covered off by you and others. A lot has been made of his low level of injury during his career but I suspect that is a result of him not being the sort of half that consistently takes on the defensive line. Contrast that to his mate Foran and it probably explains alot. It is good that he hasn't been out all the time with injury (as with Foran over the years) but it also means the attack is limited. It's almost like he has made a conscious decision to give up an line challenging attacking game as a trade off for looking after his body. I've seen him do it and when he does the team looks a lot more dangerous. But with everything about DCE, it's about consistency. I'm afraid he's now too old to change that.

 

[Bearfax]

Lmao I see you changed your initial response Bear. You know, where you again went into all your 10000 reports to judges and how that somehow equates to judging a football player. Guess what mate it doesn’t. All it does is make you come across as someone that thinks he’s above other posters on here. Intended or not. Smart move removing it. Now for me personally? I’m a Safety Officer on the Rail mate, I’m trained to ensure the safety of workers, trained in track certification, trained in investigating rail derailments and incidents. You know why I didn’t give it? Cause it’s a Footy forum and means fuk all when judging a players ability.

Secondly iv never said I know better. Lol In fact iv repeatedly said my opinion means little ( none). Iv simply stated why I don’t like Dce as a player and that hes overrated. But especially because he’s a person who divides players and fans alike. The exact opposite of what real leaders do. Again it’s a forum. And personally I love a bit of back and forth. Your the one that’s seems frustrated ( angry?) that everyone doesn’t agree with you…

Lol Again mate, being picked in the squad of 30 means little, certainly doesn’t mean he’ll be the no 1 halfback. Cleary will be halfback when the drums are beating, there is no doubt.

Lastly and in all seriousness, iv no doubt you’ve had a long, successful and storied career. There is no slight intended on that. Like I said, just a bit of banter..

So how about that bet? Lol 🤪

There you go again projecting your own opinion of me, which is insulting. I respect you at last identified something of who you are and I appreciate that and your experience. I wouldnt dare put that down as you are doing to me and I respect your knowledge and experience. And that's the difference. I made it very clear I dont think I'm better than anyone else. But I do have skills in certain areas, just like everyone does and mine happens to be human behaviour and motive. I've just been trained to read people. I'm not perfect but its just part of the package of who I am,just like a mechanic is good with machines, a plumber with pipes, a carpenter with structures. You would respect someone with those skills, but you show no respect for mine.

 

[hozza]

There you go again projecting your own opinion of me, which is insulting. I respect you at last identified something of who you are and I appreciate that and your experience. I wouldnt dare put that down as you are doing to me and I respect your knowledge and experience. And that's the difference. I made it very clear I dont think I'm better than anyone else. But I do have skills in certain areas, just like everyone does and mine happens to be human behaviour and motive. I've just been trained to read people. I'm not perfect but its just part of the package of who I am,just like a mechanic is good with machines, a plumber with pipes, a carpenter with structures. You would respect someone with those skills, but you show no respect for

No mate, your interpretation of that is wrong. I have no doubt your great at YOUR job that you are trained in. I 100% respect that. No doubt a service to the community.
But I’m sorry I just don’t think that means you have greater insight into a players ability, mindset or behaviour because of it. If your insulted that says more about you and the fact you can’t take negative feedback. I can’t help that, That’s not on me. In no way have I insulted your career or you personally. All I have stated is that being a parole officer doesn’t equate to being a greater football judge than others. And again that’s just my personal opinion. For some reason you think that your training in personal behaviour from criminals equates to having more insight into a professional sportsmans mind and behaviour. Otherwise why would you continuously go on about what you do?
To try and draw a connection between criminals behaviour and your experience being around them and that of professional league players Is just ridiculous plain and simple.

One last time mate, that doesn’t mean I’m diminishing anything you’ve done in your career.

 

[StuBoot]

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You forgot to put in the comments column
"Trent Barrett era"!
Also, did you factor in the "Over the cap/Premierships stripped era" when doing Cooper Cronks stats?

 

[Simonmyers11]

Ffs, back to talking about it not being DCE'S fault for the money he is on.

As has been explained enought times by now, any player can accept any offer they are given... it's about the value he offers for that money.

Exactly. DCE wanted to sign for 800k but club decided to offer Foran the contract, not DCE, who left anyway.

Then they had to go after the player that wanted to stay in the first place and get him to backflip on his titans contract. Should have just got the DCE deal done in the first place.

 

[Simonmyers11]

So DCE would take a 200k pay cut if it guaranteed a GF, but since it's not guaranteed, he just takes that 200k 😆

Love the off-season!

I'd prefer he take a hit, and replace for example 2 x 550k worth players and upgrade to 2 x 700k players. 300k off his nose.

If he's on 1.2m, then 900k .... I'd try to live with that and get a representative U17 or U19 half back to spend the off-season with him and take him through videos and practical demonstrations on how to read the game and how your team is going the previous 10 mins to drive the team around the park, kick to corners, into touch, understand percentage plays to go with his eyes up football, and when to use either.

200k isn't going to be the difference between us beating a side like Penrith.

All the teams that had wins during the semis were built off the back of forward dominance and defence. Penrith won the GF off the back of their pack and defence. They are so far ahead of Manly and every other NRL side.

They won the Grand final in each of the 4 competition grades SG Ball, Jersey Flegg, State Cup and NRL.

They have all the best local junior talent. If you cannot match a sides opposition pack and have a decent defensive outfit wont be very competitive.

Plus we're still lacking a genuine hooker. They are the biggest concerns for me. Yes, I feel DCE should take a pay cut for his next contract extension, but how are we going to match Penrith's pack.

Hopefully Gordon Chan Kum Tong steps up to fill the hooker position, he looks very promising.

 

[Eagle 1]

Exactly. DCE wanted to sign for 800k but club decided to offer Foran the contract, not DCE, who left anyway.

Then they had to go after the player that wanted to stay in the first place and get him to backflip on his titans contract. Should have just got the DCE deal done in the first place.

Exactly, the club has a lot to answer for, completely ballsing up the DCE Foran deals. I could see it all developing in front of my eyes, what a train wreck of a deal by our club. The only winner out of this whole debacle was our astute Businessman/Player DCE, you might say he put the Cherry on top of his cap cake.

 

[Brookie Bob]

Exactly, the club has a lot to answer for, completely ballsing up the DCE Foran deals. I could see it all developing in front of my eyes, what a train wreck of a deal by our club. The only winner out of this whole debacle was our astute Businessman/Player DCE, you might say he put the Cherry on top of his cap cake.

I wonder who DCE's manager is - I sure he/she/whatever is doing ok as well.

Though - I'll bet every team feels like they overpaid for some of their current squad (unless you're the Panthers).

 

[manly al]

My recollection at the time was that Penn was prepared to offer a combined 1 . 6 mil to retain both D C E and Foz . Maybe Foz never had a real preference to stay but as has been reiterated numerous times , D C E certainly did . Maybe the Eels also uped their offer for foz a bit more , looks like Manly were prepared to go close to match that as well at the expense of possibly then losing D C E . Then the Titans offer and contract for D C E , then Manly making a last ditch move to get foz to stay , unsuccessful , Then the D C E famous backflip and the stellar deal . Hardly an honorable or helpful way in many respects to conduct business or delicate negotiating, from some parties , will never accept his eventual contract deal or value for money but D C E probably comes out of it [ or did ] with a fair bit of credibility .

 

[manly al]

Guess it also would have been a bit of a sliding doors time if Foz did stay with D C E and if foz would have then experienced his subsequent shocking run with injuries for a good part of the next few seasons . Probably no acquisition of Dylan Walker [ at least initially ] no Blake Green and so on . Quite remarkable and accolades to Foz and quite ironic that he then was able to manage to have 2 very good seasons on his eventual return to Manly . .

 

[Eagle 1]

I wonder who DCE's manager is - I sure he/she/whatever is doing ok as well.

Though - I'll bet every team feels like they overpaid for some of their current squad (unless you're the Panthers).

Does DCE even have a manager, seems he can handle himself quite well, business wise.

 

[Eagle 1]

Guess it also would have been a bit of a sliding doors time if Foz did stay with D C E and if foz would have then experienced his subsequent shocking run with injuries for a good part of the next few seasons . Probably no acquisition of Dylan Walker [ at least initially ] no Blake Green and so on . Quite remarkable and accolades to Foz and quite ironic that he then was able to manage to have 2 very good seasons on his eventual return to Manly . .

mmm...sliding doors moment indeed MA, just imagine if Foz had of stayed and DCE made the move to the GC. Funny how things turn out ..ain't it...