The Bad, The Terrible and The Pathetic

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Must be that the other 15 clubs never bothered watching a single game of his then, because not one NRL recruitment officer or official thought it would be a good idea to sign him to an NRL deal. Instead he wallowed in QLD Cup without a deal.

How Hynes went from unwanted to State of Origin

Nicho Hynes still remembers the rugby league game that changed his life. Unwanted by Manly when he finished under-20s, Hynes was going nowhere fast in his second year of Queensland Cup with Mackay.

www.espn.com.au

In his first season at the club he had failed to impress scouts at North Queensland, as Mackay finished out of the 2017 finals.
The 2018 season had started no better, and Hynes later admitted he was questioning where his career would go from there.
"Just remember back in Mackay five years ago, sitting there with no NRL contract, not knowing if I could ever play NRL.
"I was really doubting myself over whether I could make it or not. I thought I was done, and there was no way I was getting back into the NRL.

I guess those scouts arent really good at their job are they.

 

[LeonardCohen]

I guess those scouts arent really good at their job are they.

Across the entire NRL? Seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that not one of them had any sense. Or could it be that Hynes struggled for consistency and had weaknesses in his game that the average punter doesn't see? Maybe it took some years to find his feet? That seems more plausible than anything else.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Across the entire NRL? Seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that not one of them had any sense. Or could it be that Hynes struggled for consistency and had weaknesses in his game that the average punter doesn't see? Maybe it took some years to find his feet? That seems more plausible than anything else.

Only a select few of kids will come through and immediately start setting the competition on fire, Manly dont have access to that kind of talent (Penrith,Broncos,Storm)( and were only lucky Turbo grew up in the area and loved the club. So in saying that you have to start giving the lesser talent kids the chance to play and develop even if it means growing pains. We don't have that luxury of waiting for the next Turbo to come along to get instant results because we aren't like a Penrith or Broncos who have a massive talent pool to choose from.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Only a select few of kids will come through and immediately start setting the competition on fire, Manly dont have access to that kind of talent (Penrith,Broncos,Storm)( and were only lucky Turbo grew up in the area and loved the club. So in saying that you have to start giving the lesser talent kids the chance to play and develop even if it means growing pains. We don't have that luxury of waiting for the next Turbo to come along to get instant results because we aren't like a Penrith or Broncos who have a massive talent pool to choose from.

Fair enough 👍 I hope we get it together sooner rather than later. Last night was a punish!

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

We need to start giving some BWSE players a go, much in the same way the club fast tracked Watmough into the side. Watmough wasn't really considered a superstar when he first came onto the scene but developed pretty well into a solid player.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Fair enough 👍 I hope we get it together sooner rather than later. Last night was a punish!

Im only being realistic, and I think I get some points wrong like everyone else and its nothing personal.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Im only being realistic, and I think I get some points wrong like everyone else and its nothing personal.

I can sense your passion and frustration and I’m only voicing my opinion. Your take on things is just as valid and could indeed be true. I appreciate the discussion!

 

[Oligarch]

Generally trying to be optimistic with the team. Yes it was a disappointing display last night, but tempering that with the quality of the performance against the dolphins. I don’t think that the players go from great to crap in a week - but take the point that they somehow did. I still reckon we will be in the top 8 - but seriously when and why did we become the ultimate rocks and diamonds team?

 

[mickqld]

2019 we were 10 min from a preliminary final without Tom. Not shabby at all with the players we had at the time.

Ok I'll give 2 decent years and 8 dogsht years. Unacceptable for us museum pieces that grew up in the 70s.

 

[NREagle]

I'm a little surprised that results like last night's still seem to come as a shock to people. If you take off your maroon-tinted glasses, take away standout individual performances and the occasional morale-boosting win, we are just not a very good team. Six wins, one draw, seven losses, and a points differential of -8. That is who we are. By NRL standards, we are bog ordinary. And we have been that way for a very long time.

Yes, on a good day, when the stars align and everything goes our way, we are capable of playing some lovely football. We can beat anyone. But those good days are few and far between. There is no consistency in our performances or play. There is no backbone or resilience. The minute something goes against us, we roll over and ask Wombat64 to call for the Lubemobile. We do not have good habits. We do not have good structures. We do not display consistent application or desire.

So yeah, we might jag a win here and there. We might even get two in a row every now and then. But that appears to be our ceiling.

Is it the coaching? Maybe, although we've been through four separate coaching groups since we last got near a premiership, and while some players have changed, the basic identity of the team - inconsistent, flat-track bullies, always looking for a shortcut to success - has not. I'd also like to think that players who are promoted to NRL squads have at least mastered the basics of the game - catching, tacking, running, etc - but apparently that is also too much to ask.

So is it the players? No doubt we have some very talented players and some not-so-talented players. Every NRL roster does. But for whatever reason, our blokes don't seem to function as a group - as a team.

But is that on the players themselves, or on the people who put those players together? You know - the recruitment and retention types at the club who call up Player Agent A and Player Agent B and ask for a cut-price deal on the latest crop of NRL Misfits and Discards in exchange for a coaching appointment or two.

Or is it, applying the Fish Rots from the Head Down theory, all on the management and owners, who have not been known for their astute decision-making abilities over the years?

If you answered, "Why, it's all of the above!", you are correct. The problem then becomes, how do we fix it, and where do we start?

Great post Ron.

I'm hoping Mestrov is in it for the long haul and keeps making those tough but necessary decisions.

Des was one. The Fultons another.

Where we go next with our recruitment and retention will reveal another layer towards what the club is working towards.

Also important is who will be the next assistant coach....Matty Ballin is one I'd be interested in (although probably not possible as he previously moved to Brisbane for family reasons).

 

[conanu]

I'm not suggesting external recruitment is possible, I am suggesting it's the only thing that will fix the problem. Put it this way, if we are stuck with our current roster, I'd prefer we play keep playing them in spite of losing. Why? Because I am against the idea of replacing a failing 17 with an even worse failing 17. If we drop a heap of players and replace them with the less talented Blacktown crew, we won't lose 34-4, we'll lose 64-4. Unless the players stepping up are an improvement (which they aren't), then it makes sense to trot out the same failing 17 and minimise the damage.

The likes of Vaega and Condon are not going to turn our fortunes around. Chan Kum Tong has shown his defence is not up to it, so we might as well keep playing Croker at 9 until we can go to market and get a suitable replacement. There are worse sides in the NRL than Manly. We aren't at crisis point. The Cowboys had 66 put on them, the Dolphins had 58, the Sharks 52. If we ring in wholesale changes and promote a heap of reserve graders, we might end up with 66 put on us. It's not the answer.

Who says GCKT defence is not up to it?, he has never played an NRL game and from what I saw in trials earlier in the year he was exceptional, so not sure how you come to that conclusion.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Great post Ron.

I'm hoping Mestrov is in it for the long haul and keeps making those tough but necessary decisions.

Des was one. The Fultons another.

Where we go next with our recruitment and retention will reveal another layer towards what the club is working towards.

Also important is who will be the next assistant coach....Matty Ballin is one I'd be interested in (although probably not possible as he previously moved to Brisbane for family reasons).

Manly probably goes through CEOs at the same rate the Tigers do, if not worse. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Great post Ron.

I'm hoping Mestrov is in it for the long haul and keeps making those tough but necessary decisions.

Des was one. The Fultons another.

Where we go next with our recruitment and retention will reveal another layer towards what the club is working towards.

Also important is who will be the next assistant coach....Matty Ballin is one I'd be interested in (although probably not possible as he previously moved to Brisbane for family reasons).

I still don't see how Des getting the boot was a necessary decision. He's the most successful coach we have had in 20 years and has runs on the board. sure 2022 was poor but only after the rainbow farce that should never have been.

we would be in a better place right now had he still been boss. Seibold was a poor decision. if you are going to replace a super successful boss then what comes next must be better. Seibold is definitely not that.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

I still don't see how Des getting the boot was a necessary decision. He's the most successful coach we have had in 20 years and has runs on the board. sure 2022 was poor but only after the rainbow farce that should never have been.

we would be in a better place right now had he still been boss. Seibold was a poor decision. if you are going to replace a super successful boss then what comes next must be better. Seibold is definitely not that.

I doubt it was results driven, more personality driven as to why he got the boot.

 

[JenEagle]

I'm a little surprised that results like last night's still seem to come as a shock to people. If you take off your maroon-tinted glasses, take away standout individual performances and the occasional morale-boosting win, we are just not a very good team. Six wins, one draw, seven losses, and a points differential of -8. That is who we are. By NRL standards, we are bog ordinary. And we have been that way for a very long time.

Yes, on a good day, when the stars align and everything goes our way, we are capable of playing some lovely football. We can beat anyone. But those good days are few and far between. There is no consistency in our performances or play. There is no backbone or resilience. The minute something goes against us, we roll over and ask Wombat64 to call for the Lubemobile. We do not have good habits. We do not have good structures. We do not display consistent application or desire.

So yeah, we might jag a win here and there. We might even get two in a row every now and then. But that appears to be our ceiling.

Is it the coaching? Maybe, although we've been through four separate coaching groups since we last got near a premiership, and while some players have changed, the basic identity of the team - inconsistent, flat-track bullies, always looking for a shortcut to success - has not. I'd also like to think that players who are promoted to NRL squads have at least mastered the basics of the game - catching, tacking, running, etc - but apparently that is also too much to ask.

So is it the players? No doubt we have some very talented players and some not-so-talented players. Every NRL roster does. But for whatever reason, our blokes don't seem to function as a group - as a team.

But is that on the players themselves, or on the people who put those players together? You know - the recruitment and retention types at the club who call up Player Agent A and Player Agent B and ask for a cut-price deal on the latest crop of NRL Misfits and Discards in exchange for a coaching appointment or two.

Or is it, applying the Fish Rots from the Head Down theory, all on the management and owners, who have not been known for their astute decision-making abilities over the years?

If you answered, "Why, it's all of the above!", you are correct. The problem then becomes, how do we fix it, and where do we start?

Cracking post. Well said.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Who says GCKT defence is not up to it?, he has never played an NRL game and from what I saw in trials earlier in the year he was exceptional, so not sure how you come to that conclusion.

From his NSW Cup games. It’s just my opinion but it’s no more or less valid than any conclusion you’ve drawn from the games you’ve seen.

 

[Eagle 1]

Cracking post. Well said.

Summed up our dilemma and where we are right now as a team.

 

[mave]

Who says GCKT defence is not up to it?, he has never played an NRL game and from what I saw in trials earlier in the year he was exceptional, so not sure how you come to that conclusion.

Seen enough of him at Blacktown to be positive to declare his defence is not yet up to it.

Unless NRL is easier than NSW Cup?

 

[JakeyB789]

Whether GCKT's defence is 'up to it' or not I don't know how he can't get a run when quite frankly Croker's attack isn't up to it either. 2 runs for 12 metres on the weekend which is pretty much on par with his stats for the season (and yes he played well against the Dolphins reserve grade side last week). I don't know what people expect from us when that is the level of production we get from one of the most important positions in the team, particularly when the rest of the spine was as inexperienced as it was on Saturday

It's not like our defence has been rock solid (quite the opposite actually) and Gordon doesn't need to be starting and out there for 80 minutes defending against the big boys either. But hey we should just never promote our youth because it's all going so well at the moment anyway

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Whether GCKT's defence is 'up to it' or not I don't know how he can't get a run when quite frankly Croker's attack isn't up to it either. 2 runs for 12 metres on the weekend which is pretty much on par with his stats for the season (and yes he played well against the Dolphins reserve grade side last week). I don't know what people expect from us when that is the level of production we get from one of the most important positions in the team, particularly when the rest of the spine was as inexperienced as it was on Saturday

It's not like our defence has been rock solid (quite the opposite actually) and Gordon doesn't need to be starting and out there for 80 minutes defending against the big boys either. But hey we should just never promote our youth because it's all going so well at the moment anyway

Have to agree, JakeyB789. No matter how much Croker offers in defence and effort, he is just not an effective dummy half. The loopy throws he was offering up as "service" against the Eels, ensuring our one-out runners would be smashed as soon as gravity gently brought the ball down into their hands, were doing my head in. A dummy half is supposed to engage the markers and bring his runners onto the ball. Anyone can stand behind the play the ball and throw the ball into the air, but that doesn't make them Matt Ballin or Max Krilich.

It's frustrating, because these two statements are both true: Lachlan Croker is one of our most consistent and valuable players, and Lachlan Croker is not a good hooker. Buggered if I know what the solution is though.