The Anthony Seibold Grievances MEGA THREAD

[bringbackbeaver]

T

I'm happy with many of the prettier sides of Seibolds coaching, but want to see some tougher, uglier side to bring back the resilience we lack, as this is the killer in every loss....
Seibold has Manly playing some good footy....but a little like his nature, there's still a softness to the team that shines brightly in the tighter games, when we seem to fold before the opposition when in an arm wrestle or under pressure....with the gutsy win at home vs Storm the exception.
If Manly had won 2-3 of those close games that should have been iced, I feel the same ppl bagging Seibold would be singing his praises.
The thing I will say I would like to change, too many excuses and lack of accountability are made after every loss and some can call it protecting his players, but I love old school toughness and a higher bar of expectation at these moments and that's where the Bellamy, Flanagan types excell and generally get the responses for ripping into the players when not playing with 100% commitment.
If you want to be the best in anything in life, expectations must be high and would love this area improved....this will be reflected with how much we lose in the ruck, both in attack and defence as we are just off the pace, which effects everything from momentum, kicking game line breaks and reversed in defence....harden up just that bit more and will be a serious threat again....the players don't seem desperate enough and I feel Seibold can improve himself and the side greatly with added steel in that ruck area...hopefully a genuine hooker like Simpkin was a great idea and maybe a good start to improve this.

This is spot on . Great post

 

[Disco]

Problem is we've let most go to re-sign the ageing, regressing plonkers we have.

From memory our re-signings this calendar year announced on our website are Navale, Burbo, Saab who are 20, 22 and 23.

Olakau'atu has resigned in December he is 25 and just debuted for the Blues.

Brown reported as re-signed and at 31 is who I assume you are referring to.

The apparently negotiations starting with Paseka who is 26 and just entering his prime years as a front rower.

So I can give you 1 of 6 but I'm happy enough with Brown on a modest deal.

Even if you include our signings this year. Simpkin and Schoupp are both 22. Now if you want to argue their quality then go for it but surely their best football is ahead of them.

So who are these aging regressing plonkers?

 

[ManlyTragic]

The 2 , 3, and 4 year theory does not apply to a Top 8 roster with top players inherited
Affective coaches get the best out of that roster and live up to expectations or exceed expectations

Isn’t it the other way around …. Teams in the top 8 want to keep their coach … teams in the bottom 8 are looking for a magic solution being, it is easier and cheaper to sack a coach than 17 players!

Just sayin’

 

[Ryan]

From memory our re-signings this calendar year announced on our website are Navale, Burbo, Saab who are 20, 22 and 23.

Olakau'atu has resigned in December he is 25 and just debuted for the Blues.

Brown reported as re-signed and at 31 is who I assume you are referring to.

The apparently negotiations starting with Paseka who is 26 and just entering his prime years as a front rower.

So I can give you 1 of 6 but I'm happy enough with Brown on a modest deal.

Even if you include our signings this year. Simpkin and Schoupp are both 22. Now if you want to argue their quality then go for it but surely their best football is ahead of them.

So who are these aging regressing plonkers?

I'm talking about the Lodge, Woods, Brown, Waddell, Lawton types, on top of the regressing players.

Or the players unwanted at other clubs. Or players offered contracts at half their existing rate, and given timelines to sign.

Please don't then throw players like Burbo, Schoupp & others at me, that sit alongside the Condon, Dias, Matterson signings.

You're literally defending the recruitment and retention now of a team averaging 10th / 11th over the last decade (including this year) Disco. Think about that a second, and ask yourself why. Why are.you defending what is failing ? Do you take joy in it ? When will you eventually (if ever ) say know what, this ISN'T good enough, I want something more and/or better for this team and club?

 

[Pete W]

Ideas for Siebold:

1. Jake is not a lock
2. Garrick back to wing
3. Hope Simpkin works at 9
4. Blood Arthur / Humphreys / Simpkin
5. Play Bullemor WAY more
6. Re-align acquisition / retention
7. Lawton back to NSW Cup
8. Burbo back to NSW Cup
9. Play Arthur in the 13 (we need more speed / skill
10. Humphreys in the 14 - blood him
11. Kudos with Hoppa. Keep him until Turbo returns
12. Talau to centre,way more experience than Garrick
13. Don't extend Woods, Lodge, Condon - we need more pace / mobility.
14. GCKT needs more NSW Cup confidence
15. Upgrade on Waddell, Burbo & others.
16. Must gets: marquee prop. Marquee backrower

Certainly can't disagree with a lot of this.

However, as much as I hate siding with our current head coach in any form, I must note that Jake is more lock than prop. It's just as the classical, defensive lock. Not all locks are Murray and Yeo. He certainly can't bring you go-forward like props are supposed to. Either way, it's almost a meaningless debate in practice. He's a middle who will always be in our starting 13.

Also, just because Talau has had a few good games, this doesn't necessarily warrant throwing out a whole pre-season of prep. Garrick (like Burbo and Gordie) needs game time experience, and despite becoming this year's whipping boy (along with Burbo it seems), he is by far nowhere near our biggest problem.

 

[Will on the hill]

I can’t for the life if me see the sense in starting Brown at prop and Jake at 13. Seibs has this arse about. I’d like to see Simpson at 9.

It's just a number on their back, they both play a distributor role when needed. Switching numbers wouldn't change their roles on the field at all. It different to most teams but not unique. Cowboys name Cotter at 10 and Taumalolo at 13 every week but it's obvious Cotter plays more like a lock. I reckon Jake and LoLo just prefer to keep the number they've always played in and it's basically ceremonial anyway.

 

[Disco]

I'm talking about the Lodge, Woods, Brown, Waddell, Lawton types, on top of the regressing players.

Or the players unwanted at other clubs. Or players offered contracts at half their existing rate, and given timelines to sign.

Please don't then throw players like Burbo, Schoupp & others at me, that sit alongside the Condon, Dias, Matterson signings.

You're literally defending the recruitment and retention now of a team averaging 10th / 11th over the last decade (including this year) Disco. Think about that a second, and ask yourself why. Why are.you defending what is failing ? Do you take joy in it ? When will you eventually (if ever ) say know what, this ISN'T good enough, I want something more and/or better for this team and club?

I'm talking about the Lodge, Woods, Brown, Waddell, Lawton types, on top of the regressing players.

Or the players unwanted at other clubs. Or players offered contracts at half their existing rate, and given timelines to sign.

Please don't then throw players like Burbo, Schoupp & others at me, that sit alongside the Condon, Dias, Matterson signings.

You're literally defending the recruitment and retention now of a team averaging 10th / 11th over the last decade (including this year) Disco. Think about that a second, and ask yourself why. Why are.you defending what is failing ? Do you take joy in it ? When will you eventually (if ever ) say know what, this ISN'T good enough, I want something more and/or better for this team and club?

Dont you say play play the point, not the man?

Lodge, Woods, Waddell and Lawton are all off contract and none have been re-signed beyond this year yet.

I've consistently not been a huge fan of any beyond a minimum wage squad player.

I'm discussing our current recruitment and retention and so far this year I've been quite pleased though the length of Saabs deal worries me.

In terms of the past, how long is a piece of String? Lawton signed years ago under Dessie, and we tried to shop him in the off season. How long do we complain on that? All we can do is discuss our current recruitment and be better moving forward.

Also hindsight is 20/20, am I wrong in remembering you were quite pro Lawton at some stage.

 

[Ryan]

Dont you say play play the point, not the man?

Lodge, Woods, Waddell and Lawton are all off contract and none have been re-signed beyond this year yet.

I've consistently not been a huge fan of any beyond a minimum wage squad player.

I'm discussing our current recruitment and retention and so far this year I've been quite pleased though the length of Saabs deal worries me.

In terms of the past, how long is a piece of String? Lawton signed years ago under Dessie, and we tried to shop him in the off season. How long do we complain on that? All we can do is discuss our current recruitment and be better moving forward.

Also hindsight is 20/20, am I wrong in remembering you were quite pro Lawton at some stage.

Do you recall our last "proper" rebuild? What was that built around? I'll give you some hints. Lyon, Williams, Orford, Bell, Kennedy, Rodney, Perry, Kite etc etc etc along with astute finds like Stewart(s), Matai, Ballin & others.

The Bulldogs have been trash for years. What do they do? Addo-Carr, Burton, Chrichton, Kikau, Mahoney, Ciraldo, and they were KNOWN to have cap problems just two short years ago. They have a ways to go, but they are at least trending.

Marquee, or players trending UP. Let's look at say (as example) our last 20 signings (to have played 1st grade) that aren't juniors coming through:

1. Tommy Talau
2. Jaxson Paulo (reserve grade)
3. Nathan Brown (injury prone)
4. Luke Brooks
5. Matt Lodge (injury prone)
6. Dean Matterson (reserve grade)
7. Jakob Arthur (reserve grade)
8. Ben Condon (reserve grade)
9. Samuela Fainu (gone)
10. Aaron Woods (reserve grade)
11. Kelma Tuilagi (gone)
12. Cooper Johns (gone)
13. James Roumanos (gone)
14. Ray Vaega (reserve grade)
15. James Segeyaro (gone)
16. Pio Seci (gone)
17. Ethan Bullemor
18. Christian Tuipulotu (gone)
19. Karl Lawton (going)
20. Jason Saab

Tell me, Disco, out of those 20, who is either marquee, or trending up? How's the strike rate been the last 10 years? How has that positioned us on average over that span? But now you're talking up Schoupp and Simpkin?

How long will I, or anyone else continue to complain? Well......probably as long as we continue to be rubbish, and sit 11th or below? Probably that long (not taking into consideration a one off solid year every 4-5).

 

[JenEagle]

Ray Vaega is a good player.

 

[Disco]

Ideas for Siebold:


2. Garrick back to wing
3. Hope Simpkin works at 9
4. Blood Arthur / Humphreys / Simpkin
5. Play Bullemor WAY more
6. Re-align acquisition / retention
7. Lawton back to NSW Cup
11. Kudos with Hoppa. Keep him until Turbo returns
13. Don't extend Woods, Lodge, Condon - we need more pace / mobility.
14. GCKT needs more NSW Cup confidence
15. Upgrade on Waddell, Burbo & others.

Agree mostly with the above

 

[Ryan]

Ray Vaega is a good player.

Pretty low down the pecking order though Jen - what with Saab, Talau, Garrick, Paulo (and possibly even Hoppa) skating in front of him as wingers go.

 

[Will on the hill]

Ideas for Siebold:

1. Jake is not a lock
2. Garrick back to wing
3. Hope Simpkin works at 9
4. Blood Arthur / Humphreys / Simpkin
5. Play Bullemor WAY more
6. Re-align acquisition / retention
7. Lawton back to NSW Cup
8. Burbo back to NSW Cup
9. Play Arthur in the 13 (we need more speed / skill
10. Humphreys in the 14 - blood him
11. Kudos with Hoppa. Keep him until Turbo returns
12. Talau to centre,way more experience than Garrick
13. Don't extend Woods, Lodge, Condon - we need more pace / mobility.
14. GCKT needs more NSW Cup confidence
15. Upgrade on Waddell, Burbo & others.
16. Must gets: marquee prop. Marquee backrower

1. It's just a number
2. I wouldn't mind seeing the Rubes TT2 switcheroo but doubt it would change much other than TT2 becoming the whipping boy.
3.
4. JA out for 4 months. JH Let him wet his beak at 14 before he has to start next week. JS
5. Not an edge and not in our 5 best middles when fully fit IMO
6. Too complicated to discuss here
7.
8. For who? Think he has been impressive since returning from injury.
9. Not happening this year and have doubts he could handle the defensive workload of a starting middle forward
10.
11.
12. Not opposed to this but he only has 13 more games at centre, the bulk of which were more than 3 years ago.
13.
14.
15/16. Who is available and affordable? Would love a marquee left edge BR to match Haumole but we'd likely have to gamble on someone that has potential rather than a finished product.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Seibold has Manly playing some good footy....but a little like his nature, there's still a softness to the team that shines brightly in the tighter games, when we seem to fold before the opposition when in an arm wrestle or under pressure....with the gutsy win at home vs Storm the exception.

I get everyone is frustrated with Manly not leading the comp undefeated, but this 'soft team that folds under pressure' is simplistic in my opinion.

Our win v Storm the exception? So you think we folded in big games v Penrith and Chooks? That we won! Or in the historic Las Vegas game, coming from behind 3 times against a side (then) one of the premiership favourites? How about in the tight games v Eels and Titans at Brookie? Manly didn't fold.

Assuming there is no accountability is also simplistic. Accountability is effected behind closed doors during the working week, every week, not at a 4 minute post-game presser. Seibold has made tough calls on our roster, and he's also dropped players. As for players lacking 100% commitment, toughness and desperation... I simply disagree! The only Manly player who could be questioned in that regard was cut from the club despite being on a big contract.

I think some fans underestimate just how tough, and how even, the NRL is this year. Broncos have lost 7 games! Roosters have lost 6!! Manly has lost 6! Storm are leading the comp with only 3 losses - one was to Manly!

None of this means I believe Manly will win the comp this year, I see positions that need strengthening in our top 17, plus in squad depth, but both are already better than last year. And we still might win! Our best performances have certainly been high quality.

 

[BOZO]

Isn’t it the other way around …. Teams in the top 8 want to keep their coach … teams in the bottom 8 are looking for a magic solution being, it is easier and cheaper to sack a coach than 17 players!

Just sayin’

I am not sure what you meant by the other way around
But the only way to keep our jobs is to perform to expectations and a top 8 spot is expected for teams that have a top 8 roster
As I said before
We all either exceed expectations and over achieve
We met expectations and Deliver
Or We fail Expectations and fail to produce the goods
Now the players have a duty of accountability but its the Coach who is accountable for his players and his teams results
The fact is When you bring in a Good operator you bring out the best out of your players
Wayne Bennet for example is coaching a new team in only its second year in the comp and has them overachieving in the top 4
Great coaches are the Magic solution as they comes with Winning solutions and Deliver
And Great coaches dont come cheap . They cost you more than the ones that have yet to deliver a title .

 

[eaglebuzz]

I get everyone is frustrated with Manly not leading the comp undefeated, but this 'soft team that folds under pressure' is simplistic in my opinion.

Our win v Storm the exception? So you think we folded in big games v Penrith and Chooks? That we won! Or in the historic Las Vegas game, coming from behind 3 times against a side (then) one of the premiership favourites? How about in the tight games v Eels and Titans at Brookie? Manly didn't fold.

Assuming there is no accountability is also simplistic. Accountability is effected behind closed doors during the working week, every week, not at a 4 minute post-game presser. Seibold has made tough calls on our roster, and he's also dropped players. As for players lacking 100% commitment, toughness and desperation... I simply disagree! The only Manly player who could be questioned in that regard was cut from the club despite being on a big contract.

I think some fans underestimate just how tough, and how even, the NRL is this year. Broncos have lost 7 games! Roosters have lost 6!! Manly has lost 6! Storm are leading the comp with only 3 losses - one was to Manly!

None of this means I believe Manly will win the comp this year, I see positions that need strengthening in our top 17, plus in squad depth, but both are already better than last year. And we still might win! Our best performances have certainly been high quality.

You need to cut that out right now.

I demand you start complaining about impossible hypotheticals this instant!

 

[skull61]

Come on now everyone knows it’s all DCE fault

 

[BOZO]

I think some fans underestimate just how tough, and how even, the NRL is this year. Broncos have lost 7 games! Roosters have lost 6!! Manly has lost 6! Storm are leading the comp with only 3 losses - one was to Manly!

I dont think that fans dont acknowledge just how tough and even the NRL is this year
We do know that when the going gets tough the tough get going and the head coach that has his team playing up to standards on a more consistent basis will have his team above the tight competition
A head coach is going is judged by the top 8 Benchmark Ladder Barometer and the ones that have their teams underachieving below the top 8 are more subject to more criticism as excuses do not inspire fans or results but only winning solutions do

I am proud of all the Wonderful and Passionate Manly fans on here that have high standards as our Legendary club was made Great by the Great Manly People that instilled those Great Standards and turned Manly into a Power house club and the Envy of the NRL
Lower our Legendary clubs Great standards and we stand for nothing Great

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I dont think that fans dont acknowledge just how tough and even the NRL is this year
We do know that when the going gets tough the tough get going and the head coach that has his team playing up to standards on a more consistent basis will have his team above the tight competition
A head coach is going is judged by the top 8 Benchmark Ladder Barometer and the ones that have their teams underachieving below the top 8 are more subject to more criticism as excuses do not inspire fans or results but only winning solutions do

I am proud of all the Wonderful and Passionate Manly fans on here that have high standards as our Legendary club was made Great by the Great Manly People that instilled those Great Standards and turned Manly into a Power house club and the Envy of the NRL
Lower our Legendary clubs Great standards and we stand for nothing Great
View attachment 27357

I give you credit for your limitless energy in regurgitating this mindless garbage day after day, year after year.
Also thank you for not mentioning testosterone and rape in this post.
Aside from that... meh
I agree Seibold is clearly to blame for signing Lodge and Brown instead of Flegler and Fisher-Harris, and signing Brooks instead of Munster, Paulo instead of Cobbo or Deine Mariner, clearly the guy is a fool who doesn't understand footy!
Regardless, I'll continue to follow Manly's fortunes with interest, go Manly!

 

[BOZO]

I give you credit for your limitless energy in regurgitating this mindless garbage day after day, year after year.
Also thank you for not mentioning testosterone and rape in this post.
Aside from that... meh
I agree Seibold is clearly to blame for signing Lodge and Brown instead of Flegler and Fisher-Harris, and signing Brooks instead of Munster, Paulo instead of Cobbo or Deine Mariner, clearly the guy is a fool who doesn't understand footy!
Regardless, I'll continue to follow Manly's fortunes with interest, go Manly!

One mans Garbage is another mans Treasure
One mans fool is another mans Hero
As for all what you say and what you follow is what makes you the fellow that you are and does not define anyone else
Have a Great Day feathered friend

 

[maxta]

I get everyone is frustrated with Manly not leading the comp undefeated, but this 'soft team that folds under pressure' is simplistic in my opinion.

Our win v Storm the exception? So you think we folded in big games v Penrith and Chooks? That we won! Or in the historic Las Vegas game, coming from behind 3 times against a side (then) one of the premiership favourites? How about in the tight games v Eels and Titans at Brookie? Manly didn't fold.

Assuming there is no accountability is also simplistic. Accountability is effected behind closed doors during the working week, every week, not at a 4 minute post-game presser. Seibold has made tough calls on our roster, and he's also dropped players. As for players lacking 100% commitment, toughness and desperation... I simply disagree! The only Manly player who could be questioned in that regard was cut from the club despite being on a big contract.

I think some fans underestimate just how tough, and how even, the NRL is this year. Broncos have lost 7 games! Roosters have lost 6!! Manly has lost 6! Storm are leading the comp with only 3 losses - one was to Manly!

None of this means I believe Manly will win the comp this year, I see positions that need strengthening in our top 17, plus in squad depth, but both are already better than last year. And we still might win! Our best performances have certainly been high quality.

I thought you may disagree and go for the predictable cliche, by picking wins over the other better sides in the comp, but I'll try explain the difference expecting another challenging post.
The Penrith game Manly were on top from the outset actually winning contacts and contests across the field.
Penrith were not really in it - Manly dominated from the start so didn't get to a "tough" game
Roosters were clunky and it was simply Roosters outdone by the better team.
The Melbourne games however was far different....they had all the momentum, calls and for the final 15 minutes Manly dug deep and had a gutsy win against the odds
Manly held their line with heart not shown in the other games and showed way more resilience to get the 2 points....unlike the other games....unless we talk about Roosters having 1 last minute of side to side footy and a last ditch crap kick that went to Vaega.
And the soft stuff, we'll check the results after giving up big leads as I don't want to break it down more for you