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Storm Brewing?

MuzztheEagle

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My argument is we cant see if there is a guy holding a glass bottle, how do we know if there is an imminent threat??? You do not need to be cornered in a corner to use self defence! I do cash in transit for a living and we get trained on these scenarios all the time. Running away or "tactical retreat" is an option to get yourself out of a situation but its not your only option. There is sooo many factors that come into it and to base a decision on a 20 second video from accross the road is ludicrous. 4 or 5 of those guys could have been after Asofa out the front, there could be weapons, there could be a threat to harm him. All of these things would lead to acceptable self defence.
In my line of work say a guy runs at me with an axe from 5 or 6 metres away, sure I could run away BUT if i decide to shoot the guy dead I am 100% justified in doing so because "in my opinion" I feared for my safety .... As long as Asofa says "in his opinion" he felt for his safety then you would have to be 100% certain that he is not telling the truth to say that what he did is not justified! And with the small amount of evidence we do have you cannot say 100% he was just being a thug.
 

Loobs

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My argument is we cant see if there is a guy holding a glass bottle, how do we know if there is an imminent threat??? You do not need to be cornered in a corner to use self defence! I do cash in transit for a living and we get trained on these scenarios all the time. Running away or "tactical retreat" is an option to get yourself out of a situation but its not your only option. There is sooo many factors that come into it and to base a decision on a 20 second video from accross the road is ludicrous. 4 or 5 of those guys could have been after Asofa out the front, there could be weapons, there could be a threat to harm him. All of these things would lead to acceptable self defence.
In my line of work say a guy runs at me with an axe from 5 or 6 metres away, sure I could run away BUT if i decide to shoot the guy dead I am 100% justified in doing so because "in my opinion" I feared for my safety .... As long as Asofa says "in his opinion" he felt for his safety then you would have to be 100% certain that he is not telling the truth to say that what he did is not justified! And with the small amount of evidence we do have you cannot say 100% he was just being a thug.
Someone bearing down on you with an axe places you in imminent danger. That is quite obvious.

Here is a quote from Websters article on smh:

“When it erupted, the bouncers threw them all out and they were out on the street. They were all out the front and that’s when the big fella [Asofa-Solomona] saw one of the blokes with a bottle in his hand. He was going to glass him [Vunivalu] — so he got in first.”

Now watch the video at the start of this thread a few times and open it up so you can see what is happening clearly. That quote above is clearly false. First - whatever was happening was going for long enough for someone to decide to get their phone out and film. Secondly, Vunivalu is not in view. He comes in from the right later. So the idea that Vunivalu was going to get glassed is clearly not true. There are multiple staff members from the bar visible because they have the black shirts on with white writing. They are trying to create a barrier between the two. NAS is the one moving forward (through security). Whatever happened before, in this video, NAS is the aggressor.
 

SeaEagleRock8

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As long as Asofa says "in his opinion" he felt for his safety then you would have to be 100% certain that he is not telling the truth to say that what he did is not justified!
Better Robbo, that may be according to your values, but it is not the criminal law test.
Whether anyone is going to remember the legal test in the heat of the moment is another matter, let alone when you're juiced up on alcohol or whatever else.
But for the purpose of discussions like this I think it's well worth pointing out that just because your intention is to stick up for your mate doesn't mean you can't end up locked up and in very serious trouble with the law.
 

The better Robbo

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Better Robbo, that may be according to your values, but it is not the criminal law test.
Whether anyone is going to remember the legal test in the heat of the moment is another matter, let alone when you're juiced up on alcohol or whatever else.
But for the purpose of discussions like this I think it's well worth pointing out that just because your intention is to stick up for your mate doesn't mean you can't end up locked up and in very serious trouble with the law.
Its not my values, its the law. You have to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" which means if you have any doubt then you cannot convict. Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was no broken glass? NO! Because witnesses are backing up Asofas case so straight away that creates doubt. You guys are basing your views on a dodgy phone video from 30m away and are just dismissing witness statements. Im glad you are not my jury!
 

Loobs

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Its not my values, its the law. You have to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" which means if you have any doubt then you cannot convict. Can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was no broken glass? NO! Because witnesses are backing up Asofas case so straight away that creates doubt. You guys are basing your views on a dodgy phone video from 30m away and are just dismissing witness statements. Im glad you are not my jury!
Vunivalu literally comes from down the street in the video. How can NAS be defending him from an imminent glassing if he isn’t even in the picture..?
 

The better Robbo

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I've been involved in numerous self defence cases and all I'll add is - the Better Robbo is great value for footy insights but go to him for legal advice at your own risk :)
Ive been involved in plenty myself mate, heaps of cases in my line of work and not one of us ever convicted. We get this **** rammed down our throats on a daily basis and cant count the hours spent on this. Guys ive worked with in CIT been shot and killed, fights, knife assaults, baseball bats and every single time we have been justified in our actions in self defence even though there were many other options available to us. Itll take a great lawyer to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Asofa and Vunivalus story is fabricated and he is guilty of assault. Witnesses back him up so not sure what you think you know by watching an amateur video. You are allowed to use force in the defence of another person. From reports i heard Vunivalu was on the ground about to be glassed after already being king hit. Sounds like justification to me!.
Anyway lets just agree to disagree and maybe we'll see what comes out in the wash.
 

Eagle of London

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Just as an fyi to everyone i got somewhat perspective on something of this nature.
After our Gp win over storm myself and my brother headed out for few beers in orange after family dinner.
My brother ran into a fella (call him tom) he new through friend and chatted like everything was sweet.
Ran into this tom at royal orange he was with local ru club end of year drinks. One of tom friends kinghit my brother in pub and another 5 tried to go further. We where all taken out of hotel.
My brother wrongly followed this group in trying to get retribution and i was bashed and kicked on ground. I had to take 10 days off work and my eye socket is still not completely healed.
I did not go to police as hotel has no cctv footage and where major incident happened there no cctv footage.
But king hitting or coward punching is simply a low dog act and weather there storm players i think good on him for sticking up for his mates.
More to the point ORANGE??? And is my photo still just inside the front door opposite the taxi rank?
 
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Budgewoi Eagle

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Ive been involved in plenty myself mate, heaps of cases in my line of work and not one of us ever convicted. We get this **** rammed down our throats on a daily basis and cant count the hours spent on this. Guys ive worked with in CIT been shot and killed, fights, knife assaults, baseball bats and every single time we have been justified in our actions in self defence even though there were many other options available to us. Itll take a great lawyer to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Asofa and Vunivalus story is fabricated and he is guilty of assault. Witnesses back him up so not sure what you think you know by watching an amateur video. You are allowed to use force in the defence of another person. From reports i heard Vunivalu was on the ground about to be glassed after already being king hit. Sounds like justification to me!.
Anyway lets just agree to disagree and maybe we'll see what comes out in the wash.
Ever thought about changing jobs to oh, I dunno, a garden centre?
 

Budgewoi Eagle

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Tommy T is in Bali right now. Anyone think he’ll be around glassings, king hits, brawls?
Thought not.
 

SeaEagleRock8

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Anyway lets just agree to disagree and maybe we'll see what comes out in the wash.
You say he's done nothing wrong but personally I'll be amazed if there is no sanction, even allowing for the NRL's love of Storm, so yeah we'll wait and see. Meanwhile, sounds like you're in a dangerous line of work so I wish you well with that. :)
 

Loobs

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You say he's done nothing wrong but personally I'll be amazed if there is no sanction, even allowing for the NRL's love of Storm, so yeah we'll wait and see. Meanwhile, sounds like you're in a dangerous line of work so I wish you well with that. :)
That’s the issue for me as well. The legal ship has sailed and is a non starter. What concerns me is the spin making it sound like they were in the trenches at Verdun and deserving of a medal of honour rather than hammered in Bali, swinging wildly in public. What will the punishment be that comes down from HQ? Missing an international is a joke. A fine only would be a joke. Has to be a significant fine AND matches. NRL said it would come down hard on people for bad behaviour so let’s see what they do. For me anything short of big fine AND suspension from NRL matches would lead to a big loss of faith in the NRL which already is hanging by a thread.
 

Moondog

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What will the punishment be that comes down from HQ? Missing an international is a joke. A fine only would be a joke.
What's the difference between Nelson and Napoleon?.....Napoleon was Bonaparte and Nelson was Blownapart.
 

MissKate

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The law etc is totally irrelevant when it comes to the nrl dishing out punishment. It will be the law according to greenturd, oh and he might consult with Barb, because she runs the joint down south apparently
 

Harmless27

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Tommy T is in Bali right now. Anyone think he’ll be around glassings, king hits, brawls?
Thought not.
You know what, I literally saw a post on Instagram of him having dinner with his girlfriend and others, and I thought to myself:
He looks more like a family man on holidays than a footballer on the pi$$ looking for trouble

Maybe it is because they have their partners with them, or perhaps because they aren't blind drunk.... not sure. But I am willing to put a gorilla on the fact that he will never get done for any off field crap in his life.
 

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