Post-Game Discussion Souths V Manly [Round 16, 2024]

[Phobia]

Next game...

1. Hoppa - spine and game plan yesterday weren't doing much for him at all
2. Saab - tried
3. Talau - Great effort at an uncomfortable position
4. Tom Trbojevic
5. Garrick
6. Brooks
7. DCE
8. Aloiai
9. Simpkin
10. Sipley
11. Olakau'atu
12. Ben T / Lawton if Croker is back
13. Jake
14. Lawton / Croker
15. Bullemor
16. Navale
17. Brown

Next Origin affected game...
1. Turbo
7. Humphreys

 

[Chunkytuna]

Im going to be really honest…. We looked like a team that never believed we would win. Apart from bullemore, jaxon paulo and tommy talau… not one of the normal first graders stood up. A total lack of belief.

I agree with that analysis. We didn’t look like we believed we could win. And to me, that comes down to the coach. He didn’t instil a belief in his players. There were a number of coaching blunders last night in what was a winnable game. For example, bullymore should have got way more minutes - he was our most damaging forward.

 

[Pete W]

Any objective look at our team list, and one can see a group of debutants, or recent debutants, NSW Cup players, fringe first graders, journey men, and a couple going in already busted up.... it was a gutsy effort.

This group let in fewer tries than our full strength team had been letting in all year. They played with grit. The last fortnight we have finally shown some character and resolve.

Our last 5 games, with the exception of Penrith, we have let in no more than 3 tries every 80mins of football. Despite the loss last night, there is visible improvement.

 

[Chunkytuna]

That was such a frustrating game to watch and made a whole lot worse by Voss & Brandy's one-sided commentary. Still at 8-0 with 10 mins left, we were so close and yet so far. I couldn't believe all Brooks could do was kick bombs down the LHS - no grubbers, banana kicks, 40/20's, or anything other than bombs!

Have to say there was plenty of effort but unfortunately we missed having a true halfback to swing it for us. Condon was underwhelming, as was James, but the rest of the forwards stood up and did their best. Lehi continues to play very well for a young and inexperienced FB. Lawton, Talau and Brown were probably our best. Sips and Waddell were outstanding to play injured.

Navale had a very good debut game and I'm amazed nobody's mentioned Schoupp, who tried hard and I thought was impressive.

Bravo to the poor fans who made the trek to Homebush in the rain only to see us lose like that.

You’re pretty well spot on with all those comment IMO. basically I think most of the ‘new’ guys played pretty well - especially Navale - very impressed with his energy. As for the regulars, only Talau in the backs and sips and Waddell in the forwards impressed me. The later two only impressed based on the fact that they were injured. Talau continues to be out best player each week IMO. Koula, Saab and Brooks all had very disappointing games. Also coachin was very average.

 

[Chunkytuna]

Any objective look at our team list, and one can see a group of debutants, or recent debutants, NSW Cup players, fringe first graders, journey men, and a couple going in already busted up.... it was a gutsy effort.

This group let in fewer tries than our full strength team had been letting in all year. They played with grit. The last fortnight we have finally shown some character and resolve.

Our last 5 games, with the exception of Penrith, we have let in no more than 3 tries every 80mins of football. Despite the loss last night, there is visible improvement.

Yes but you must admit Souths were terrible too. It was a very average game.

 

[Pete W]

Yes but you must admit Souths were terrible too. It was a very average game.

We certainly brought them down to our level. My point is that it had potential to get really ugly. Our teams in the last few years have copped some thrashings, and instead, despite Souths being underwhelming (they still had a world class spine in Cook, Wighton, Walker, and almost a full compliment of forwards), our defence, which has been our Achilles heel, actually looked pretty solid. If we build on such efforts, get our troops back, a charge is not out of the question. I feel more optimistic now than I did a fortnight ago.

 

[Chunkytuna]

We certainly brought them down to our level. My point is that it had potential to get really ugly. Our teams in the last few years have copped some thrashings, and instead, despite Souths being underwhelming (they still had a world class spine in Cook, Wighton, Walker, and almost a full compliment of forwards), our defence, which has been our Achilles heel, actually looked pretty solid. If we build on such efforts, get our troops back, a charge is not out of the question. I feel more optimistic now than I did a fortnight ago.

Yep there were some good signs for sure.

 

[Rafferty]

Perhaps but in the 4 seasons Des was back we made a semi final and a preliminary did we not. All with a side Barrett failed with. Still waiting for the seibold magic to pop out of a hat and prove he's the man.

Do not hold your breath, it will prove fatal.

 

[Rafferty]

I sometimes question the benefits of just putting up a bomb. Why not try a grubber through the line with Koula or Lehi following through, it might not work every time, but better than just handing it back to them.

Worked a treat for Walker in the earlier game.

 

[HoldenV8]

Gee I feel sorry for Brooks. He is being absolutely hammered for something that isn’t his fault

Our pack on paper was always going to struggle, and those were the absolute worst conditions possible for that pack to operate, and that’s what he had to play with. And he was obviously given a very specific game plan to execute, which I believe he followed to the letter. Could he have gone stuff this and done his own thing, yes, but harder to do the first year under a coach

He was given no halfback to take some of the organising pressure. Why does this club clearly have no succession plan for our 35 year old halfback. We've gone 5 years with no decent #9 and now we have no halfback to step up yet we just let go of Weekes.

The best seasons I think Brooks played at the Tigers was when he had a good half alongside him to take the reigns such as a Mitch Moses or Benji Marshall. The year he won the Dally M Halfback of the Year in 2018 he had Benji as his regular 5/8.

He's not an organizer, he's a runner. Yes I do think he probably should have stepped up and taken the reigns last night, especially given that it was Talau effectively playing halfback. But at the same time I am not sure how effective he would have been anyway and it was fairly obvious he was playing to instructions ... which doesn't say much.

The most surprising thing, and it shows that we need to be on the hunt for a quality young half if we haven't got one in juniors coming through already ... was Jamie Humphreys not even getting a look in. The fact that Seibold decided to go into the game with only 1 recognised half and basically not even consider Humphreys doesn't say much at all for the kids first grade prospects at the club.

When the first grade coach would rather play a centre/winger at halfback instead of the reserve half.....

Anyway, the bye will be welcome I think. A few of our players need the break.

 

[HoldenV8]

I think Koula is the most obvious choice to drop for the next game - rather than Hoppa Mk.V - if the ‘Great White Hope’ returns as planned. With the latter playing in the centres.

But then I’m not the coach.

As well as Hopoate has played, I honestly expect he'll be the one to make way for Turbo after the bye. We have proven time and time again that even when he's not in great form, we're still usually a better team with Tom Trbojevic at fullback.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Gee certain Souths players, I’m looking at you ‘Phantom’, were allowed a lot of leeway by ‘Uncle Terry’ Butler last night.

Walker is a grub, who then parades his kids around at full time as if to say, “Look, I’m really a nice family man!”

View attachment 27415
Uncle Terry Moody

View attachment 27416

‘Uncle Terry’ Butler

10-3 penalty count against Manly. Souths should have scored 2-3 more tries with that sort of leg up.

Butler did his best to kill us off from the beginning with subtle insidious decisions all against us. I really dislike him as a ref.

 

[manly al]

Tend to think if Siebs was concerned with Humphries defence [ and only perceived reason i could see in not starting with him ] , could have had Paulo on the bench instead of James or Condon and reverted to the Talau 6 option if it was not working out relatively early on .
Easy in hindsight but going with Talau in the halves with 4 bench forwards was then always going to present much less options if things were not gelling .
Good commitment largely in defence but even with all of the notable outs , should have been a bit better structured attack with the calibre of a few of the still available players .
Should also have been quite apparent fairly early on that the particular type of ball movement and subsequent running out of room was not cutting it .
But no recognized half then to come on and try and change the dynamic and little wonder the nil score outcome
Seemed not very encouraging with the heavy rain at game start [ don 't know what it is but can rarely recall any Manly side playing comfortably in the wet , a few dubious decisions against Manly just added to the for sure very frustrating performance .
Really could have done with Tent and Alioai and would tend to say Croker being available .
Was surprising with the lack of i st half game time for Bully , certainly pleasing how Navale and Schoupp did quite well .
Guess it will just come down to Manly getting their best available sides for the majority of the remaining games and for a still hopeful final's berth

 

[Bearfax]

Considering Manly were without 13 first graders, the result was reasonably good. Only three tries scored against them, the last in the last two minutes of play. They had more ball, the penalty count was 10-3 against Manly, they had only a few players missing. Manly would have easily accounted for them with a full squad.

 

[D8iceous]

What was the point of having Lawton in at 7, did he even pass a ball. No disrespect to Lawton but he isn't even the shoelaces of a half-backs training boots

Any idea why Seebs using Lawton at the half instead of Arthur?

 

[Dan]

Any idea why Seebs using Lawton at the half instead of Arthur?

Arthur is injured, busted something before origin 1

 

[Jethro]

Any idea why Seebs using Lawton at the half instead of Arthur?

From the Manly Sea Eagles website, ' Rd 16 Sea Eagles Injury Report' released on Tuesday 18 June 2024:

Jake Arthur suffered a stress fracture in his left foot and underwent successful surgery to stabilise this last week. He will remain in a boot for the coming weeks and is expected to be sidelined for four months.

Round 15 Sea Eagles Injury Report

Here is the latest Sea Eagles injury news from NRL Head Physiotherapist Chris Bailey heading into round 15 of the Telstra Premiership.

www.seaeagles.com.au

 

[HoldenV8]

Koula has his best game at fullback vs Broncos, but hasn’t played back there since. Hoppa Jr isn’t looking close to being anywhere near as good, but keeps getting picked there….absolute Clown coach.
Manly best weapon this game Koula was relegated to doing hit ups, which is in part thanks to Brooks who’s got no passing game.

Other than his pace, what exactly does Koula offer at fullback that would justify moving Turbo??

 

[HoldenV8]

Funny seeing some people content with a 14-0 loss as if for and against matters for us. It would only make a difference if we finished on the same points as the Warriors who just lost by 60 and are in a far worse position than us.

With all the short-sighted and ‘safe’ team selections we make you would think we are a top 4 side yet we are outside the 8 and can barely string back to back wins together. At the very least play to win and name a halfback. Not naming one when you have one available, putting a second rower in there instead and scoring ZERO points is just weak and pathetic, but after 1.5 years of Seibold that is what I have been coming to accept

Its not that we're content with the loss. Given the side we had on the park on the night we didn't expect to win. TBH even though they were without Cam Murray and Latrell, most of us expected Souths to give us a Titans v Wahs like blood bath.

Any content comes from that fact that our basically half an NRL side, half a NSW Cup side ... while not being able to score ourselves, managed to restrict them to just 14.

Souths have Origin/Test level halves. They have the games 2nd greatest ever try scorer. And they had a pack that made a few of our Blacktown boys look small. Seriously, Tom Burgess made Navare look like one of the midgets going up against King Kong Bundy at Wrestlemania 3. And yet those "midgets" stood tall, especially in defence to restrict that Souths side to just 14 points in those conditions.

And remember this ... it was very nearly only just 8 points. Their last try had more than a touch of luck to it.

The loss and not scoring a point wasn't good. But by rights it could and should have been a lot worse.

 

[joeboy]

Its not that we're content with the loss. Given the side we had on the park on the night we didn't expect to win. TBH even though they were without Cam Murray and Latrell, most of us expected Souths to give us a Titans v Wahs like blood bath.

Any content comes from that fact that our basically half an NRL side, half a NSW Cup side ... while not being able to score ourselves, managed to restrict them to just 14.

Souths have Origin/Test level halves. They have the games 2nd greatest ever try scorer. And they had a pack that made a few of our Blacktown boys look small. Seriously, Tom Burgess made Navare look like one of the midgets going up against King Kong Bundy at Wrestlemania 3. And yet those "midgets" stood tall, especially in defence to restrict that Souths side to just 14 points in those conditions.

And remember this ... it was very nearly only just 8 points. Their last try had more than a touch of luck to it.

The loss and not scoring a point wasn't good. But by rights it could and should have been a lot worse.

I appreciate and agree with all this, my upset comes from just not firing a shot against a team that despite all the above was there for the taking on that particular night, Brooke’s and Siebold in particular should’ve come up with something better in attack after identifying how lacklustre south’s were and how many opportunities were there.

We didn’t fire a shot. That’s a worry no matter how you cut it. Brookes is experienced enough and paid well enough to muster better than that and Siebold called it a throw at te stumps yet didn’t arm the team with a single projectile, or the players that did play arnt skillful enough to manufacture a single chuck. Again, a worry no matter how you cut it

* Apart from Talau, where boofhead Condon just didn’t do his role