SOO, Jake, DCE, general discussion

[SeaEagleRock8]

Sorry mate…..disagree on Suaalii. Hasn’t done anything better than most other centre / wingers. Overrated for mine & nowhere near the talent of Selwyn Cobbo.

Cobbo looks exciting I agree, the kind of player that almost makes it worth watching a non-Manly game.

As for Suali, he's been making tough carries and actually bending the opposition's forwards backwards. A long way. Then even slipping a controlled off-load. He whacks in defence. And I saw him leap to catch a bomb for a try, one of the best leaps I can ever recall!

Anyway it he flops all the better, being a Chook, I guess we will see over time what he's got.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

I'd actually go:

01. Reece Walsh
06. Kaylin Ponga
07. Cameron Munster
09. Harry Grant
14. AJ Brinson

Like Manly , it's time for the maroons to think of the future. There is that much skill in those players.

Last thing they need is some 33 year old running sidewards set after set.

Mate, I’d love it if Qld did run that side out !!

Walsh has been ordinary in an ordinary team this year, hasn’t scored a try as yet

Ponga has been big average, and would be out of position in a spot he couldn’t nail at NRL level

Munster can’t steer a ship, he is a running 5/8, the Storm got clogged twice as soon as Hughes wasn’t there beside him

Wouldn’t have a rep team looking for the future, you pick your best side available to win the series, they aren’t something you just give away

Steve Kearney did that with the Kiwis back in I’ll say 2014 when they went to England and they were set back for years. He left Benji Marshall at home to play Peta Hiku and Tui Lolohea in the halves and they got flogged 3-0

 

[Rocky]

All valid point mate! I agree, Jake’s work rate is higher but I like Finucane’s carries better. He still has some leg speed. Personally, I’m pretty upset about how Jake’s game has deteriorated. A few years ago it looked like he had the world at his feet. Suddenly he is slow...and already 28? How did that happen. I thought we were in for a couple of premierships with the Trbojevic brothers...but Jake’s slowing down and Tom is always injured. It’s a bit sad.

Do you think the style Hasler has employed has meant the grind of 50 tackles a game has wrecked Jake’s body?

You know the old story of how if you throw the frog in the boiling water it jumps straight out. Yet if you put the frog in and turn up the heat it wont jump out and will slowly die.

That's how I feel about Jake and how he has been used and how I see his game. We have seen it each week but basically he has turned from a young buck who bent the line in his early years... then we turn around in 2022 and the guy is a slowish tackling machine with zero oomph in attack. And as you say he's not old.

I think you have to put the blame at De's feet and his preference for particular styles of players in his team. We know he loves the hooker who can tackle but only passes out of dummy half. We know he loves the Jake style of player.

I guess the question is where to here for Jake. Do we play him at prop and try to freshen him up mid game to improve his attack? I have no idea to be honest.

Either way his contract is getting worse by the day. I thought he was a 700k player earlier in the season but probably worth 500k now.

 

[Ryan]

Interesting article, thanks.
It actually makes the salaries of DCE, Turbo and Jake look well within range, I think.
Interesting (and not really surprising) that some players thought to be on the highest deals in their positions are not still rated as among the top players in those positions, eg Klemmer, Andrew Fifita, and others such as Yeo will be worth far more in their next deal, especially if prepared to test the market.

So Jake, who averages 70-80 metres a game, tackles a lot, misses a fair few, gives away multiple penalties, possibly the slowest forward we have, BUT is character personified, and loyal to a tee - you're happy with him on 900k and to be a top 2-3 highest paid locks in the world?

 

[lsz]

Jakes definitely not holding our club back, but his salary cap hit kind of is, so I can see the point I guess. Jake is a good player, particularly defensively. But like Schuster, Taufua and a few other, they look like they are running in mud, and very, very slow for the 2022 game.

Don't get me wrong, he's averaging 78 metres a game this year (which is pretty decent) for an 80 minute player / forward - I guess.....actually, IS it?

Isaah Yeo on the flipside is averaging 144 metres (making just as many tackles - missing 34% less), and is on more than $200k+ (they say he's on around $600k) less than Jake:

Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries

The Herald has obtained the document the NRL salary cap auditors send clubs to keep agents honest and determine how much they should pay their players.

www.smh.com.au

The widely considered best lock in the NRL, Isaah Yeo, isn’t among the top five paid No.13s in the game, believed to be on just less than $700,000 this year.

This is what gets me

Yes Yeo is a great player but when he is surrounded by others it is a fair bit easier to make mtrs etc

Lets look at our team where we have 1 player in the forwards averaging over 100 mtrs...Josh A who is much maligned on here

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

Lets look at the panthers

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

Where you have 3 forwards over 100 mtrs per match


For mind Jake is not suffering from what Des has him doing as much as he is from what is pretty clear is a weak pack ever since AFB left us

Debate his contract as much as you want however we can not be so black and white when it some to numbers

 

[Son of Manly Beach]

Jakes definitely not holding our club back, but his salary cap hit kind of is, so I can see the point I guess. Jake is a good player, particularly defensively. But like Schuster, Taufua and a few other, they look like they are running in mud, and very, very slow for the 2022 game.

Don't get me wrong, he's averaging 78 metres a game this year (which is pretty decent) for an 80 minute player / forward - I guess.....actually, IS it?

Isaah Yeo on the flipside is averaging 144 metres (making just as many tackles - missing 34% less), and is on more than $200k+ (they say he's on around $600k) less than Jake:

Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries

The Herald has obtained the document the NRL salary cap auditors send clubs to keep agents honest and determine how much they should pay their players.

www.smh.com.au

The widely considered best lock in the NRL, Isaah Yeo, isn’t among the top five paid No.13s in the game, believed to be on just less than $700,000 this year.

This is what I mean - the contract is holding the club back.
We should be able to expect a bit more out of someone getting that kind of money
Don't get me wrong, he gives his all...but maybe it's just not good enough now for someone on that salary. Who knows, maybe he'll fire up after missing out on SOO selection.

 

[Ryan]

This is what gets me

Yes Yeo is a great player but when he is surrounded by others it is a fair bit easier to make mtrs etc

Lets look at our team where we have 1 player in the forwards averaging over 100 mtrs...Josh A who is much maligned on here

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

Lets look at the panthers

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

Where you have 3 forwards over 100 mtrs per match


For mind Jake is not suffering from what Des has him doing as much as he is from what is pretty clear is a weak pack ever since AFB left us

Debate his contract as much as you want however we can not be so black and white when it some to numbers

Mate, look at those numbers, and consider we are losing Marty from that - a player most people rip into here ! We are in BIG trouble.

Unfortunately, salary capo hit IS black and white mate. You overpay in certain areas, you become unbalanced. That's exactly what we are right now. On the 4 highest players aren't adding their value for money either atm for one reason or another.

I absolutely put our forwards form on Des. Our system is crap. It's easy to play against and defend. A flat attack, with slower and lumbering forwards? A slow play-the-ball? You say that's the players, and to a degree it is, but the fact it's not being addressed and corrected is on Des (slowest play-the-ball statistically in the league).

In regards to metres made, 1 forward vs. 3 over 100 isn't too far removed imo. Bear in mind Marty is very close to 100.

 

[Son of Manly Beach]

All valid point mate! I agree, Jake’s work rate is higher but I like Finucane’s carries better. He still has some leg speed. Personally, I’m pretty upset about how Jake’s game has deteriorated. A few years ago it looked like he had the world at his feet. Suddenly he is slow...and already 28? How did that happen. I thought we were in for a couple of premierships with the Trbojevic brothers...but Jake’s slowing down and Tom is always injured. It’s a bit sad.

Do you think the style Hasler has employed has meant the grind of 50 tackles a game has wrecked Jake’s body?

This - 'I thought we were in for a couple of premierships with the Trbojevic brothers...but Jake’s slowing down and Tom is always injured. It’s a bit sad.'

Spot on, I thought we were def contenders for a couple of premierships with the brothers.
Might be a bit early to speculate but I fell it's passed us by.

 

[chuckee]

So Jake, who averages 70-80 metres a game, tackles a lot, misses a fair few, gives away multiple penalties, possibly the slowest forward we have, BUT is character personified, and loyal to a tee - you're happy with him on 900k and to be a top 2-3 highest paid locks in the world?

Not sure how people somehow keep making excuses for the trbojevic brothers around here but they are the first to lay the boot into DCE for his pay packet.

At least we get bang for our buck for DCE and he’s always on the field. Shame our 2 other marquee players are either never on the field or play like reserve graders.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

So Jake, who averages 70-80 metres a game, tackles a lot, misses a fair few, gives away multiple penalties, possibly the slowest forward we have, BUT is character personified, and loyal to a tee - you're happy with him on 900k and to be a top 2-3 highest paid locks in the world?

The article you quoted has him rated in the top 3 locks and that is not a controversial assessment, even though he's just been omitted from the Blues. The same article says the average salary for top 5 locks is $841,000. So yes, well within range.
Bear in mind they are guessing about details of contracts, Jake is reputed to be on 900 but who knows maybe it is 850 with some loyalty allowance or whatever.
By the way you say he misses a fair few tackles - that's news to me. Also the penalties and 6 agains are very frustrating but that is probably his assigned role on the team, years ago we had Buhrer being that guy.

 

[pt73]

Too funny that they said Buzz was a pundit ....... more like a dropkick.

Freddy’s loyalty questioned over ‘unbelievable’ Foxx snub as NSW coach explains bombshell call

Freddy’s loyalty questioned over ‘unbelievable’ Foxx snub as NSW coach explains bombshell call

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Ryan]

The article you quoted has him rated in the top 3 locks and that is not a controversial assessment, even though he's just been omitted from the Blues. The same article says the average salary for top 5 locks is $841,000. So yes, well within range.
Bear in mind they are guessing about details of contracts, Jake is reputed to be on 900 but who knows maybe it is 850 with some loyalty allowance or whatever.
By the way you say he misses a fair few tackles - that's news to me. Also the penalties and 6 agains are very frustrating but that is probably his assigned role on the team, years ago we had Buhrer being that guy.

 

[The Indian]

Players get old and lose their leg speed quick in the NRL. It's no shock to anyone what has happened with Origin. Echo the comments that you can't fault Jake nor do anything but like the bloke and nobody has any ill will towards him. But he struggling a bit to get near that top level anymore and has been for a while.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I find myself caring little about SOO now , QLD winning 10 out of 11 years destroyed my interest.

And now I find that Freddie & Joey just pick a side based on favourites it makes it even less appealing.

 

[Koko22]

Joey just pick a side based on favourites it makes it even less appealing.

Joey is not involved Brandy is. How Wighton gets to start is unbelievable I wouldn't even let him drive the team bus.

 

[Koko22]

pick a side based on favourites it makes it even less appealing.

Like Bozo with the Aussie side Sirro picked all the time. Coaches do have favourites look at Des.

 

[lsz]

Mate, look at those numbers, and consider we are losing Marty from that - a player most people rip into here ! We are in BIG trouble.

Unfortunately, salary capo hit IS black and white mate. You overpay in certain areas, you become unbalanced. That's exactly what we are right now. On the 4 highest players aren't adding their value for money either atm for one reason or another.

I absolutely put our forwards form on Des. Our system is crap. It's easy to play against and defend. A flat attack, with slower and lumbering forwards? A slow play-the-ball? You say that's the players, and to a degree it is, but the fact it's not being addressed and corrected is on Des (slowest play-the-ball statistically in the league).

In regards to metres made, 1 forward vs. 3 over 100 isn't too far removed imo. Bear in mind Marty is very close to 100.

Agree on Marty

Change is an easy thing to call for but where do those numbers come from either in the team or fromrecruitment?

As for the salary cap I am always hesitant to talk about what the actual value in the cap is for a player- that is something you shed light on many years ago when there was reporting on a contract v what you had info on

I am not saying Jake is not being paid 900k but who knows how much of that is in the cap v 3rd party v phased over years?

Where we lack value is when we got rid of AFB and failed to replace his mtrs. It worked like a charm in vlandy ball last year but I can not remember us ever competing with the top teams packs...which is why we could never beat a top 4 team

 

[Ryan]

Agree on Marty

Change is an easy thing to call for but where do those numbers come from either in the team or fromrecruitment?

As for the salary cap I am always hesitant to talk about what the actual value in the cap is for a player- that is something you shed light on many years ago when there was reporting on a contract v what you had info on

I am not saying Jake is not being paid 900k but who knows how much of that is in the cap v 3rd party v phased over years?

Where we lack value is when we got rid of AFB and failed to replace his mtrs. It worked like a charm in vlandy ball last year but I can not remember us ever competing with the top teams packs...which is why we could never beat a top 4 team

Very good point. It was Watmough. All the media (and I mean ALL) were saying he was on 900k. I won't allude to what he was in, but not even in the same HEMISPHERE of his actual number, and the contract I had sent to me , was him agreeing to a reduction to fit other players in the cap !!!!!

And people got up him for his anger at DCE demanding more, putting other players positions at risk (Foz, Gift and others).

You don't get that self sacrifice anymore. That's for sure. So point taken. Jake could well be on 425k and we are being told 900k. I know that type of disparity happens.

 

[lsz]

Very good point. It was Watmough. All the media (and I mean ALL) were saying he was on 900k. I won't allude to what he was in, but not even in the same HEMISPHERE of his actual number, and the contract I had sent to me , was him agreeing to a reduction to fit other players in the cap !!!!!

And people got up him for his anger at DCE demanding more, putting other players positions at risk (Foz, Gift and others).

You don't get that self sacrifice anymore. That's for sure. So point taken. Jake could well be on 425k and we are being told 900k. I know that type of disparity happens.

Agree 100%

Also if we take some of the moneyball approach (not so much on recruitment but on output) there must be a number of mtrs forwards need to reach each week - i would suggest we are well under at the moment and it is a worry we have no real plan to replace the mtrs Marty makes

 

[master blaster]

A few Suali doubters here, but unfortunately (for us Rooster haters) in the last few weeks he has shown he is already the real thing. Could be better than Folau. It didn't occur to me he might make SOO this year but I can see the point in picking him in the squad, he seems tough enough and is a giant.
On the other hand I can't see the point in picking Frizzell or the 2nd Saifit twin, or Sims for that matter.
Jake and JAC have simply paid for their teams' mediocre form.

Next time he does a big hit, watch it over again, he leads with the shoulder which is a shoulder charge if I am not mistaken, especially the hit he did on Bird a few weeks ago anyway, thats what I reckon and none of the commentators say a thing except, what a great hit