[Resurrected] Penn selling the club??

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Just like strata fees. You get an allocation dependent on the size of your investment. Each quarter/financial year you'd receive an allocation of the profits (highly unlikely) or have to stump up more money to maintain your share of the investment, or try to sell it.
The more investors the more complicated it becomes.
But, hey. I'm in for $100.....

say 1000 investors .... say cost of $16 mill and an annual loss of say $3mill .... each one stumps up $16,000 share purchase and $3000 per year ....

@ 5000 investors ... $3200 up front and $600 per year ....

How many investors to you think it would need to be viable and sustainable ?? ...
 
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The Green Bay Packers provide an example of how fan base ownership can be done but, generally speaking, NFL clubs are profitable so there is no need to go back to members with the cap out asking for further donations (the last time they did this I think was to fund a stadium upgrade).

The stock is not a dividend stock, which is essential to making the model work and it also helps that GB happens to have ~360,000 members for when the board does come knocking for more cash.

I don’t know how it would work for MWSE though as we don’t have the membership scale. We’d certainly need more than the current 12k members as the yearly operating shortfall would need to be funded somehow. This would potentially create yearly uncertainty over the club’s viability.

In our context, a fan base ownership model sounds great in theory, but when I think about the practicalities, I can live with the benevolent dictator model.
 
say 1000 investors .... say cost of $16 mill and an annual loss of say $3mill .... each one stumps up $16,000 share purchase and $3000 per year ....

@ 5000 investors ... $3200 up front and $600 per year ....

How many investors to you think it would need to be viable and sustanable ?? ...
I know you are most likely using the term “investor” loosely, but it would be more accurate to refer to them as donors....
 
Simpler to declare Manly a faith based organization and reap in the government grants whilst also enjoying a tax free status :angel:
IMG_20181022_091111.jpg


#CliffyIsGod
 
The Green Bay Packers provide an example of how fan base ownership can be done but, generally speaking, NFL clubs are profitable so there is no need to go back to members with the cap out asking for further donations (the last time they did this I think was to fund a stadium upgrade).

The stock is not a dividend stock, which is essential to making the model work and it also helps that GB happens to have ~360,000 members for when the board does come knocking for more cash.

I don’t know how it would work for MWSE though as we don’t have the membership scale. We’d certainly need more than the current 12k members as the yearly operating shortfall would need to be funded somehow. This would potentially create yearly uncertainty over the club’s viability.

In our context, a fan base ownership model sounds great in theory, but when I think about the practicalities, I can live with the benevolent dictator model.

Pretty much my thoughts ... but I didn't want to sound like a grumpy old negative nancy ..
 
For all the great things that the Penns have done for our club which I respect and am very grateful

I am also very disappointed that Max has not been treated with the great respect that he has earned and deserves .

I have been a very proud and passionate Manly club member for many years and hearing about one of the most important Manly man in the history of our club being treated with disrespect is a blemish to our club


Must admit I gave them a little bit of a serve some time back, but I guess not being close to the action you don't see the ultimate plan. I think I can see that the Penns are very loyal to the Sea Eagle brand and in their existence on the northern beaches. The fact that they have waited until the redevelopment of Brookvale Oval has been definitely confirmed before considering a full or partial buy out, shows they were aware of efforts to relocate if sold off. They've waited until the point where relocation would now be folly. For that I have to commend them. I don't live on the northern beaches now, and haven't lived there for over 40 years. But my heart still belongs to that area and to that football side. Long live the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles Rugby League side.
 
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NRL is languishing behind in the professionalism stakes to take the game forward, still feels like a Semi Professional competition.

The teams that can hang around either after the chop in teams or more professional management of the game starts taking the game forward will reap financial rewards----like many other "professionally run" sporting organizations around the world---might actually be a good time to invest as there is plenty of upside if the backers of the game get it right. (NRL is like 15-20yrs behind)

Manly and the Roosters fan base cater for the middle to upper class demographics which makes them stand out, unlike the rest of the clubs that just all blend in to being everyones second favourite team.

Distinguishing yourself and knowing your target market is looked upon highly by advertises and sponsorship opportunities.

The next Manly squad that excites and feels like a class above the competition will get massive crowds again, a fan base that expects excellence will drop in numbers big time when it is not on display or just feels like a middle table offering.

Also a fan base with higher disposable incomes and more options for entertainment are not going to be attracted to membership offers, they turn up in droves for the big games or when the club is a stand out performer, membership feels like it is more targeted towards the average Joe.
 
NRL is languishing behind in the professionalism stakes to take the game forward, still feels like a Semi Professional competition.

The teams that can hang around either after the chop in teams or more professional management of the game starts taking the game forward will reap financial rewards----like many other "professionally run" sporting organizations around the world---might actually be a good time to invest as there is plenty of upside if the backers of the game get it right. (NRL is like 15-20yrs behind)

Manly and the Roosters fan base cater for the middle to upper class demographics which makes them stand out, unlike the rest of the clubs that just all blend in to being everyones second favourite team.

Distinguishing yourself and knowing your target market is looked upon highly by advertises and sponsorship opportunities.

The next Manly squad that excites and feels like a class above the competition will get massive crowds again, a fan base that expects excellence will drop in numbers big time when it is not on display or just feels like a middle table offering.

Also a fan base with higher disposable incomes and more options for entertainment are not going to be attracted to membership offers, they turn up in droves for the big games or when the club is a stand out performer, membership feels like it is more targeted towards the average Joe.
Harsh but probably true.
 
Manly and the Roosters fan base cater for the middle to upper class demographics which makes them stand out, unlike the rest of the clubs that just all blend in to being everyones second favourite team.

Distinguishing yourself and knowing your target market is looked upon highly by advertises and sponsorship opportunities.

The next Manly squad that excites and feels like a class above the competition will get massive crowds again, a fan base that expects excellence will drop in numbers big time when it is not on display or just feels like a middle table offering.

Also a fan base with higher disposable incomes and more options for entertainment are not going to be attracted to membership offers, they turn up in droves for the big games or when the club is a stand out performer, membership feels like it is more targeted towards the average Joe.

I couldn't agree MORE with your sentiment. You are BANG ON. I don't know much, but I do know market segmentation and target audiences VERY well (that is what I do for work).

Threading together my outspoken opinions in other threads .... THIS is why we need to have a no d*ckheads and no DV policy at OUR club.

I know I am sounding like a broken record... but if we want to attract the middle/upper class supporter of Rugby League (which is ironically not the largest segment by actual numbers) then we really need to live and breath the target segment. Furthermore, there MUST be a cohort of disenchanted upper class Rugby fans who are ripe for the picking on the back of the Folau debacle..... A successful couple of years now (both on AND off the field) will provide a strong opportunity for financial growth and stability
 
NRL is languishing behind in the professionalism stakes to take the game forward, still feels like a Semi Professional competition.

The teams that can hang around either after the chop in teams or more professional management of the game starts taking the game forward will reap financial rewards----like many other "professionally run" sporting organizations around the world---might actually be a good time to invest as there is plenty of upside if the backers of the game get it right. (NRL is like 15-20yrs behind)

Manly and the Roosters fan base cater for the middle to upper class demographics which makes them stand out, unlike the rest of the clubs that just all blend in to being everyones second favourite team.

Distinguishing yourself and knowing your target market is looked upon highly by advertises and sponsorship opportunities.

The next Manly squad that excites and feels like a class above the competition will get massive crowds again, a fan base that expects excellence will drop in numbers big time when it is not on display or just feels like a middle table offering.

Also a fan base with higher disposable incomes and more options for entertainment are not going to be attracted to membership offers, they turn up in droves for the big games or when the club is a stand out performer, membership feels like it is more targeted towards the average Joe.

Gibberish ........ apart from minor sponsors ... any major sponsor of a club is not interested one hoot in the particular fans of that club .... they are spending North of a million each year because the game (NRL) reaches 2 whole states, one southern City, a Manly tragic in Adelaide and Canada and an Island acrooss the ditch.......

Sponsors would be far more interested in how a team in Perth spreads their product profile than any one suburb demongraphic ...
 
NRL is languishing behind in the professionalism stakes to take the game forward, still feels like a Semi Professional competition.

The teams that can hang around either after the chop in teams or more professional management of the game starts taking the game forward will reap financial rewards----like many other "professionally run" sporting organizations around the world---might actually be a good time to invest as there is plenty of upside if the backers of the game get it right. (NRL is like 15-20yrs behind)

Manly and the Roosters fan base cater for the middle to upper class demographics which makes them stand out, unlike the rest of the clubs that just all blend in to being everyones second favourite team.

Distinguishing yourself and knowing your target market is looked upon highly by advertises and sponsorship opportunities.

The next Manly squad that excites and feels like a class above the competition will get massive crowds again, a fan base that expects excellence will drop in numbers big time when it is not on display or just feels like a middle table offering.

Also a fan base with higher disposable incomes and more options for entertainment are not going to be attracted to membership offers, they turn up in droves for the big games or when the club is a stand out performer, membership feels like it is more targeted towards the average Joe.
Great post.
 
Gibberish ........ apart from minor sponsors ... any major sponsor of a club is not interested one hoot in the particular fans of that club .... they are spending North of a million each year because the game (NRL) reaches 2 whole states, one southern City, a Manly tragic in Adelaide and Canada and an Island acrooss the ditch.......

Sponsors would be far more interested in how a team in Perth spreads their product profile than any one suburb demongraphic ...
It's not about a one suburb demographic, it's not "just" about supporting a "club", it is about creating a brand, a reputation, an appeal, a standard and distinguishing yourself from the market place----Manly is not just about Manly it is about appealing to the aspirational, intelligent sophisticated well rounded types in "all locations".

The beauty of being in the Sydney Market place is you don't necessarily need to have a large home supporter base to appeal or be noticed by a large population, if you market the club right and have good on field performances to help that along.

In the 70's 80's and 90's good on field performances attracting more free to air time to show off the big ugly wallpaper advertising on a clubs jersey for a six figure sum was the be all and end all of sponsorship success, revenue streams now are so diverse and there are so many different ways to get media exposure beyond free to air.

An example of thinking outside the box, i know many Manly supporters who would never wear the jersey or any form of merchandise because it looks cheap and lacks class for day to day wear.(AKA me and many others) I would love to wear something branded like "Eagles golfing apparel" EGA that has a hint of Manly colours with a more classy looking Eagle emblem that doesn't look like a cartoon character to wear to golf, but can also appeal to non Manly supporters because it looks good.

Eagles Angels worked for it's time because the group came across as smart, sophisticated successful business and sporting women and i'm sure they appealed to many high school girls to broaden the female supporter base along with attracting good sponsorship to the club----(looked classy and worked in the Manly demographic,sponsors wanting to line up or improve their brand image by linking up with this classy network of successful women)

Eagles Angels did lose it's way(among other things) and stagnate but it showed you the power of branding and targeting a demographic.

Manly is in a good position to appeal to sponsors who want to maybe elevate themselves from just being an average brand to give the perception of having more quality linking up with a more "sophisticated" supporter base. BMW might want to advertise their new line up of Electric cars along the Eastern states and want to associate themselves with a club that wont ruin their "brand image".(two examples from different perspectives)

You don't want to be advertising BMW on the Penrith Jersey unless BMW wants a quick fire sale of combustion engine cars that are struggling to sell (the more affluent have moved on to Electric) so they dump the old stock on bogans wanting to look cool for once. I'm getting the feeling this kind of free to air advertising is happening now for the next few years to get rid of such stock in droves to people who "wished they could drive luxury but could never really afford it.
 
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I couldn't agree MORE with your sentiment. You are BANG ON. I don't know much, but I do know market segmentation and target audiences VERY well (that is what I do for work).

Threading together my outspoken opinions in other threads .... THIS is why we need to have a no d*ckheads and no DV policy at OUR club.

I know I am sounding like a broken record... but if we want to attract the middle/upper class supporter of Rugby League (which is ironically not the largest segment by actual numbers) then we really need to live and breath the target segment. Furthermore, there MUST be a cohort of disenchanted upper class Rugby fans who are ripe for the picking on the back of the Folau debacle..... A successful couple of years now (both on AND off the field) will provide a strong opportunity for financial growth and stability
Smaller in numbers but better yield on game day and having better facilities will give Manly many more options to take advantage of this.

I recall a report in the 90's commissioned by Manly i think during the Super League war that showed Manly had a much better return per supporter even with low crowds---now imagine if we had facilities and a successful team to really take advantage of this.

During this period i saw another report that stated 40% of Manly supporters at the ground came from outside the local area, Manly being a hard place to travel to with poor direct public transport options shows to me that the SFS would have worked if Manly are playing well.

Manly and the Roosters packed out the SFS on Monday Night Football because it felt like an event and was promoted well, this crap about Manly supporters not traveling is over exaggerated, yeah they wont bother if the game doesn't feel like an event or is not do or die on a cold Friday night.
 
It's not about a one suburb demographic, it's not "just" about supporting a "club", it is about creating a brand, a reputation, an appeal, a standard and distinguishing yourself from the market place----Manly is not just about Manly it is about appealing to the aspirational, intelligent sophisticated well rounded types in "all locations".


The beauty of being in the Sydney Market place is you don't necessarily need to have a large home supporter base to appeal or be noticed by a large population, if you market the club right and have good on field performances to help that along.

In the 70's 80's and 90's good on field performances attracting more free to air time to show off the big ugly wallpaper advertising on a clubs jersey for a six figure sum was the be all and end all of sponsorship success, revenue streams now are so diverse and there are so many different ways to get media exposure beyond free to air.

An example of thinking outside the box, i know many Manly supporters who would never wear the jersey or any form of merchandise because it looks cheap and lacks class for day to day wear.(AKA me and many others) I would love to wear something branded like "Eagles golfing apparel" EGA that has a hint of Manly colours with a more classy looking Eagle emblem that doesn't look like a cartoon character to wear to golf, but can also appeal to non Manly supporters because it looks good.

Eagles Angels worked for it's time because the group came across as smart, sophisticated successful business and sporting women and i'm sure they appealed to many high school girls to broaden the female supporter base along with attracting good sponsorship to the club----(looked classy and worked in the Manly demographic,sponsors wanting to line up or improve their brand image by linking up with this classy network of successful women)

Eagles Angels did lose it's way(among other things) and stagnate but it showed you the power of branding and targeting a demographic.

Manly is in a good position to appeal to sponsors who want to maybe elevate themselves from just being an average brand to give the perception of having more quality linking up with a more "sophisticated" supporter base. BMW might want to advertise their new line up of Electric cars along the Eastern states and want to associate themselves with a club that wont ruin their "brand image".(two examples from different perspectives)

You don't want to be advertising BMW on the Penrith Jersey unless BMW wants a quick fire sale of combustion engine cars that are struggling to sell (the more affluent have moved on to Electric) so they dump the old stock on bogans wanting to look cool for once. I'm getting the feeling this kind of free to air advertising is happening now for the next few years to get rid of such stock in droves to people who "wished they could drive luxury but could never really afford it.

As a bald man I know a thing or two about hats. The hats they issue every year are pretty average and like you said I would like one with just a small logo somewhere that wasn’t so crass. One colour with and emblem like the great baseball caps in the states. My ex wife buys me all sorts of manly gear from the kids every birthday and Christmas and all of it is crap.
I do like the scarfs they used to give out though as they kept you warm and you didn’t look like a bogan in it.
 
As a bald man I know a thing or two about hats. The hats they issue every year are pretty average and like you said I would like one with just a small logo somewhere that wasn’t so crass. One colour with and emblem like the great baseball caps in the states. My ex wife buys me all sorts of manly gear from the kids every birthday and Christmas and all of it is crap.
I do like the scarfs they used to give out though as they kept you warm and you didn’t look like a bogan in it.
If you're a FC member, you can get the ballcap of your dreams - a nice modestly-sized, old-style Manly-Warringah logo and Sea Eagle (not the Philadelphia Eagles number), with your FC membership no. emblazoned on one side of the cap.

IF you're not a FC member, do yourself a favour and get onboard.
 
If you're a FC member, you can get the ballcap of your dreams - a nice modestly-sized, old-style Manly-Warringah logo and Sea Eagle (not the Philadelphia Eagles number), with your FC membership no. emblazoned on one side of the cap.

IF you're not a FC member, do yourself a favour and get onboard.

Oh yeah...is that still happening? Have they gone out yet?
 
Team P W L PD Pts
7 6 1 54 14
6 5 1 59 12
6 4 2 53 10
6 4 2 30 10
7 4 2 25 9
8 4 4 73 8
7 4 3 40 8
7 4 3 24 8
7 3 4 17 8
7 4 3 -8 8
8 4 4 -60 8
8 3 4 17 7
6 2 4 -31 6
7 3 4 -41 6
7 2 5 -29 4
7 1 6 -87 4
7 1 6 -136 4
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