Our approach

[BOZO]

That is the $74 question. (allowing for inflation here)

Funny LOL !

 

[Hotspur2014]

Agreed on that for next year. Unfortunately I think Taupau has suffered badly post covid symptoms. He just can't seem to get his mojo back. Either that or him being shown the door has dulled his commitment which I don't think he would.

His mojo has been gone for over a year !

 

[Pete W]

Des has always been a proponent of only committing 2 to a tackle so as to keep the defensive line tighter. His reasoning is based on the notion that it is better to get penalised for slowing the ruck as he would rather the team do more tackles but in return would be more confident in not exposing holes around the ruck. He employed this tactic very successfully for years and the stubborn man seems to be sticking by it. PROBLEM IS: 1) This was before the era of 6-agains, where a penalty actually was an opportunity for a breather and a defensive re-set (this tactic is suicide with a 6-again call); and 2) the middle forwards he had at his disposal during manly 2005-11 and dogs 2012-15 were exceptionally better as a whole than this current mob, who simply don't have the skill/know-how in dominating a tackle, wrestling, etc, as well as not being capable of doing more tackles than the bare minimum.

Yet another glaring issue that many seem to see except Des

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Koula needs a switch, needs to go on Forans side we need to unleash him. He's wasted on DCE side.

Everybody is wasted on DCEs side.

 

[maxta]

I think we lack speed in comparison to other teams around the middle 3rd where games are won.
I think Des is a great motivator, but not up with the better coaches in relation to tactics relating to the modern game.
Obviously rely on 1 player far too much and have an unbalanced side and results show this when Tommy is out
I feel the reason we seem sloppy this season in general, comes back to falling behind other sides with game style combined with so many players constantly out for 1 reason or another and stops the side adding any real cohesion

 

[Graham Eadie]

3 areas for me that have us in this situation.

- Injuries/suspension.
Leads to differing combinations both in attack and defence. Not once this year have we named the same 17 for consecutive weeks.
How/why? Bad luck? Bad game tactics?

- Playing sideways.
Our attacking plays have become predictable and lack direction. We push to the sidelines too often and it’s easy pickings for the defence. DCE is the king of crabbing and it stunts our go forward. Makes it hard for forwards to take hard carries when the defence is set ready to smash them.
Foz needs more ball. Walker needs more ball to punch up the middle - not crab. Croker needs to run more often.

- Discipline.
For whatever reason (refs/fatigue) we are off the mark in this area. This needs looking at.
Too many drop balls. Too many penalties.
To beat the best, you have to give yourself every chance and Manly too often shoots itself in the foot with piggy back penalties or dropped balls in crucial field positions.

The middle paragraph is where it starts and ends for me.

Go hard and fast, straight up the guts.

 

[Scorpio]

Not an expert, but a few other things I have noticed:

1. We don't play direct enough with our forwards and they rarely hit the ball at pace. We have a few good forwards but not sure how many of them will help to get us rolling forward consistently. I don't think the hooker is the main problem here but a Grant type would work better (but we can't really afford one I don't think)

2. Play the ball speed seems relatively slow across the board which affects point #1.

3. There aren't an awful lot of attacking set plays evident, apart from the ball from Foran or Schuster to Garrick with the centre running a decoy... which works. The opposition seem to have read the early kick to Saab every time this year.

4. Haumole has been talked about as having half a chance at Origin, but he hardly gets early ball at pace from DCE. Underutilised.

5. Koula is our best attacking centre, but hardly gets early ball at pace from DCE. One of our only long-range tries this year was from Koula putting DCE into a gap, not the other way around.

6. DCE can put in long clearing kicks all day, but there is not an awful lot of variety. Not many high and short attacking mid-field kicks, nor spiralling or floating kicks that test the opposition fullbacks and allow our forwards to force a set restart. Think Reynolds or Cleary.

7. Not sure if there is much wrong with our defensive structure on its own merit, or whether we don't execute it properly. Again DCE has looked poor at this a few times recently, where the right side defence just opens up after he misses his assignment.

8. Poor discipline and too many drop balls. Sometimes I think we need a third man in a tackle to help slow down the play without giving away set restarts, which may help.

9. On-field leadership and communication seems lacking. Senior players should lead by example but that doesn't seem to be happening. Someone suggested our play structure seems to be a microcosm of our captain DCE's play style and that seems accurate. Des should reign this in but hasn't for whatever reason.

A final point is that to me it was obvious that we should have at least waited before extending DCE's contract... But a few games with some great moments against bottom teams and some people here (and evidently those signing off in recruitment) were convinced that he was a better option than anyone else who may be available on the market at the end of next year.

 

[manly al]

Not an expert, but a few other things I have noticed:

1. We don't play direct enough with our forwards and they rarely hit the ball at pace. We have a few good forwards but not sure how many of them will help to get us rolling forward consistently. I don't think the hooker is the main problem here but a Grant type would work better (but we can't really afford one I don't think)

2. Play the ball speed seems relatively slow across the board which affects point #1.

3. There aren't an awful lot of attacking set plays evident, apart from the ball from Foran or Schuster to Garrick with the centre running a decoy... which works. The opposition seem to have read the early kick to Saab every time this year.

4. Haumole has been talked about as having half a chance at Origin, but he hardly gets early ball at pace from DCE. Underutilised.

5. Koula is our best attacking centre, but hardly gets early ball at pace from DCE. One of our only long-range tries this year was from Koula putting DCE into a gap, not the other way around.

6. DCE can put in long clearing kicks all day, but there is not an awful lot of variety. Not many high and short attacking mid-field kicks, nor spiralling or floating kicks that test the opposition fullbacks and allow our forwards to force a set restart. Think Reynolds or Cleary.

7. Not sure if there is much wrong with our defensive structure on its own merit, or whether we don't execute it properly. Again DCE has looked poor at this a few times recently, where the right side defence just opens up after he misses his assignment.

8. Poor discipline and too many drop balls. Sometimes I think we need a third man in a tackle to help slow down the play without giving away set restarts, which may help.

9. On-field leadership and communication seems lacking. Senior players should lead by example but that doesn't seem to be happening. Someone suggested our play structure seems to be a microcosm of our captain DCE's play style and that seems accurate. Des should reign this in but hasn't for whatever reason.

A final point is that to me it was obvious that we should have at least waited before extending DCE's contract... But a few games with some great moments against bottom teams and some people here (and evidently those signing off in recruitment) were convinced that he was a better option than anyone else who may be available on the market at the end of next year.

All good points but problem is , how to rectify or address most of them . Can be doable but will need some serious attention and some different approaches

 

[Nambawan]

Everybody is wasted on DCEs side.

Agree re Koula, At times I thought he must have leprosy or similar, because of the frequency of him being ignored either by DCE with a cut out pass, or by Olalauatu consistently unable to set up a player or to offload. Also, Manly seems to consistently swing play to the left where last game we had Harper and Taufua! Ridiculous.

 

[Pete W]

All good points but problem is , how to rectify or address most of them . Can be doable but will need some serious attention and some different approaches

Unfortunately serious attention to these issues will not be addressed within the club's current set-up. For whatever reason, Hasler's second stint is constrained by Penn's tight leash due to past history. A premiership is not the priority - being competitive enough whilst working within a tight budget is. Having the well-spoken, clean cut, premiership-winning QLD captain is what Penn wants for business reputation and sponsorship dollars. I have no doubt Hasler's previous complete autonomy has been reigned in as a pre-condition of his employment since 2019. Under these circumstances, we will continue to yo-yo back and forth in and out of the 8, but will never seriously contend for another title. Personally, I am already trying to guess what this team will look like after 2025 when Des and DCE have gone. How will our roster be looking and who will be our head coach?

 

[manly al]

Definitely have to get D C E to move the ball earlier or runners a bit deeper in attack off him . More direct play to the line if he is going to use Haumole or Koula better , any side ways movement or stop starts just gives the opposition defence more time to stifle his outside men . And he is pretty easy pickings when he does take on the line even against the lesser rated sides Some of the better attacking sides just seem to have so much more room to move , deeper in attack and players in motion . Happens occasionally on foz side but very rarely on D C E "s side . Schuster with some more match condition will improve the attack even more on Foz 's side but again need D C E on his side to play a bit more direct and with more direct passing , then what he can do real well with support play .

 

[Rocky]

Not an expert, but a few other things I have noticed:

1. We don't play direct enough with our forwards and they rarely hit the ball at pace. We have a few good forwards but not sure how many of them will help to get us rolling forward consistently. I don't think the hooker is the main problem here but a Grant type would work better (but we can't really afford one I don't think)

2. Play the ball speed seems relatively slow across the board which affects point #1.

3. There aren't an awful lot of attacking set plays evident, apart from the ball from Foran or Schuster to Garrick with the centre running a decoy... which works. The opposition seem to have read the early kick to Saab every time this year.

4. Haumole has been talked about as having half a chance at Origin, but he hardly gets early ball at pace from DCE. Underutilised.

5. Koula is our best attacking centre, but hardly gets early ball at pace from DCE. One of our only long-range tries this year was from Koula putting DCE into a gap, not the other way around.

6. DCE can put in long clearing kicks all day, but there is not an awful lot of variety. Not many high and short attacking mid-field kicks, nor spiralling or floating kicks that test the opposition fullbacks and allow our forwards to force a set restart. Think Reynolds or Cleary.

7. Not sure if there is much wrong with our defensive structure on its own merit, or whether we don't execute it properly. Again DCE has looked poor at this a few times recently, where the right side defence just opens up after he misses his assignment.

8. Poor discipline and too many drop balls. Sometimes I think we need a third man in a tackle to help slow down the play without giving away set restarts, which may help.

9. On-field leadership and communication seems lacking. Senior players should lead by example but that doesn't seem to be happening. Someone suggested our play structure seems to be a microcosm of our captain DCE's play style and that seems accurate. Des should reign this in but hasn't for whatever reason.

A final point is that to me it was obvious that we should have at least waited before extending DCE's contract... But a few games with some great moments against bottom teams and some people here (and evidently those signing off in recruitment) were convinced that he was a better option than anyone else who may be available on the market at the end of next year.

A lot of great points here.
Haumole certainly isn't the weapon he was earlier in the season. 6 weeks ago he had to be in SOO contention, now he is well out of the conversation.

And can you believe we don't actually know how fast Koula is - he hasn't been in clear air once.

 

[40 nil]

And can you believe we don't actually know how fast Koula is - he hasn't been in clear air once.

Hopefully, this will happen when DCE is absent (hopefully) during Origin.

 

[manly al]

Unfortunately serious attention to these issues will not be addressed within the club's current set-up. For whatever reason, Hasler's second stint is constrained by Penn's tight leash due to past history. A premiership is not the priority - being competitive enough whilst working within a tight budget is. Having the well-spoken, clean cut, premiership-winning QLD captain is what Penn wants for business reputation and sponsorship dollars. I have no doubt Hasler's previous complete autonomy has been reigned in as a pre-condition of his employment since 2019. Under these circumstances, we will continue to yo-yo back and forth in and out of the 8, but will never seriously contend for another title. Personally, I am already trying to guess what this team will look like after 2025 when Des and DCE have gone. How will our roster be looking and who will be our head coach?

See where you are coming from but not as pessimistic in the main . Wern't too far of top billing at the end of last season with a healthy roster and most players in sync and a fit Turbo . Even some of the bad losses this season , defence has been up to par for long stages but hamstrung with some poor ruck discipline and cheap turnovers . Attack or effective attack is the real problem especially with Turbo out . Played some great attacking footy last season admittedly spearheaded by turbo , think that Koula has the speed and ability to do real well there in his absence and just play some more open and controlled footy in general . Side is capable of some decent defence , just again have to get a reasonable share of possession . .

 

[mickqld]

Fittler comes off as a goose sometimes but he has some very astute observations.
Many have been critical of our defence and lack of ability to win the contest.
He made a comment in the first half which is spot on,we commit 2 people to the tackle in the middle a lot rather than 3,this is a coaching tactic from Des' and maybe is something that needs to be looked at to control the contest more.

Well you can guarantee that if it's a criticism of Des then there's no way he'll change what he's doing. He's too impervious to criticism.

 

[Under the Sticks]

Jo-e Johns and Freddy getting behind the “Koula to fullback” push on the footy show just now as they rate him and agree he is not in the play enough.

Joey rated his defensive talent as well which some have raised as a a concern at fullback.

They both said Manly are stuck in the 9-12 spot in the ladder which we all agree with so it’s worth a shot.

With Foz and schu at 7 and 6 next few rounds and Koula to the back it could mix things up and kick start our attack.

I’m thinking we are also missing Paseka more than we think off the bench.

 

[Shoe1]

This period when Walker comes on it's something I hadn't thought of before and I see the point. And it's not that Walker isn't trying or playing awfully. But the balance is shifted.

Walker going sideways to the left, DCE going sideways to the right, neither with edge runners to straighten it up very often, and 1 prop down at the same time it's no wonder we look side to side and like a park team at times like last night.

Walker did play awfully on Thursday night.

 

[Shoe1]

What was disturbing, we got it to 12-4 at half time, we had a good last 15min. Thought we could go on with it, only to concede again after 5min in the 2nd half, game over !!

Walker was the architect of the 2nd half slide with an awful 10 minutes. Stray idiotic offload on the first set = try, then Ball hogging, **** passes behind players, then injured.

 

[Rocky]

Jo-e Johns and Freddy getting behind the “Koula to fullback” push on the footy show just now as they rate him and agree he is not in the play enough.

Joey rated his defensive talent as well which some have raised as a a concern at fullback.

They both said Manly are stuck in the 9-12 spot in the ladder which we all agree with so it’s worth a shot.

With Foz and schu at 7 and 6 next few rounds and Koula to the back it could mix things up and kick start our attack.

I’m thinking we are also missing Paseka more than we think off the bench.

All good points...although I think we all know we miss Paseka.... he's our second best prop.

 

[NYEagle]

Some excellent points all through here:

Of these, the most that bother me are:

(1) Slow play-the-balls with players constantly looking up at the refs for penalties

(2) Too much one out forward hit ups with no one in support.

(3) Predictable side-to-side attack and no strategy of attacking with numbers in support (which the Roosters do very well).

We actually have a pretty deep squad even without Turbo, but I don’t see how we can evolve enough to use this squad effectively. The way we are playing now nothing good with happen.

NYEagle