Our approach

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Snake

Snake's Alive!
It’s hard to nail down what’s going wrong with Manly this year. Injuries don’t help but it’s not like we were playing well with all our cattle anyway.

For a time, I thought our pack wasn’t up to it and although I still think it’s not an elite pack, I’ve seen us compete in the middle the last couple of weeks and show intent in defence. I do still think we’re a bit short of leg speed in the forwards. But still...

Last night was down to crucial errors and piggy back penalties. We go sideways too often and we waste too tackles with settlers inside the opposition 20m. Edge defence terrible again.

That gets me to my question...is it coaching? Now I’m a big fan of Des and no I don’t think he should be sacked. However, he may need fresh support staff with new ideas to help reinvent our approach to the game. Our edge defence is poor; a new defensive structure please? New defence coach? Our attack is boring and predictable. New attacking structures please? We can’t keep running block plays to edges. Our only hope of scoring is a winger crashing over a metre in from the sidelines. Where is the threat around the ruck and through the edge backrowers?
 

mave

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
DCEs use of Koula and Olakau'atu is perplexing, to say the least.

They never seem to hit holes at pace, and rarely seem to even get space to produce even a quick ruck for the next play.

The difference between Forans side and Cherrys side is obvious.

And Walker....if he is injured, dont play him. He goes down mid set when we are on the attack at least once a game. We lost the ball on the next play last night, after our momentum was killed.
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
I know you disagree with me ... but it all goes pear shaped when walker replaces a prop ... and 25 positional changes are made ..

Yes walker plays well ... but the competition for the middle goes to hell in a hand basket.

Last night Sipley and aloaia were competing and holding their own .. then 2 props replaced with one .. and let's go backwards.

It's dumb, stupid and doesn't work other than against bottom 4 sides if Turbo is on fire and making 50 line breaks as well.
 

The Indian

Bencher
I know you disagree with me ... but it all goes pear shaped when walker replaces a prop ... and 25 positional changes are made ..

Yes walker plays well ... but the competition for the middle goes to hell in a hand basket.

Last night Sipley and aloaia were competing and holding their own .. then 2 props replaced with one .. and let's go backwards.

It's dumb, stupid and doesn't work other than against bottom 4 sides if Turbo is on fire and making 50 line breaks as well.
This period when Walker comes on it's something I hadn't thought of before and I see the point. And it's not that Walker isn't trying or playing awfully. But the balance is shifted.

Walker going sideways to the left, DCE going sideways to the right, neither with edge runners to straighten it up very often, and 1 prop down at the same time it's no wonder we look side to side and like a park team at times like last night.
 

Budgie

In for the long haul.
2016 Tipping Competitor
Tipping Member
DCEs use of Koula and Olakau'atu is perplexing, to say the least.
And he is an absolute liability to them in defence.
So now we're back to Des' coaching.
Surely he needs to pull his captain in and explain that he's playing too much as a "I can win this on my own superstar" and not even vaguely as a team player. He lives too much on praise for field goals and 40/20s and pays little attention to his job of holding the line in defence and putting players through in attack.
Fix Des to fix DCE and you go a fair way to fixing the team.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I think we often ask questions we dont want to hear the answers too. We have been a mirror of our captain for years who is a great player but a fairly average halfback

He is the most experienced player, in the most pivotal position , coached by legendary halves, surrounded by greatness in origin but still continues to do his own thing without recourse or improvement in the upstairs department

He needs a fresh start, our rebuild wont start until he is gone. While he speaks beautifully , his on field actions are of a jibberer

Until we transition from his leadership, rather than his playing we will be average. I take he is a great role model, a super trainer, super committed but he isnt a leader He hides in key moments and gambles with the teams efforts too often

Our teams personality is his , and it needs to be tougher, more ruthless, and smarter in approach. He is the on field boss and unless we can bring someone in that can overcall him, tell him off, pull him in line , respect his abilities but reject his attitude to the ball, we are just not going to cut it

Des is about getting the best out of what we have, but we need a better on field leader. Tom and jake are definate possabilities And can grow into that role, but we need a game manager who plays to the script to win NRL games and not backyard footy.

We look like we are coached by the walker brothers.

The forwards cop too much flak for our position. If they bust a gut, nothing changes and this site is littered with this , going back 5 or 6 years. Sure a lot of its mine but its prolific if we are prepared to listen. Some people just dont want to hear it so we invent new villans .

We played the dogs in a cyclone and dce kicked once in the first half, once. Saab was peppered like a burrito at the other end and 2 weeks later dufty was exposed to a bomb athon and never recovered, by a smarter team than ours
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I know you disagree with me ... but it all goes pear shaped when walker replaces a prop ... and 25 positional changes are made ..

Yes walker plays well ... but the competition for the middle goes to hell in a hand basket.

Last night Sipley and aloaia were competing and holding their own .. then 2 props replaced with one .. and let's go backwards.

It's dumb, stupid and doesn't work other than against bottom 4 sides if Turbo is on fire and making 50 line breaks as well.
I agree

My belief is we are always trying to fix another issue.
Walker needs to be there to straighren the attack but it shouldnt be at the expense of a big bopper, but our attack needs it

We have too many attacking options because our attack is no good unless we stack the deck

Jake plays too many minutes as a playmaker , costing the forwards grunt although i see that less the last 2 weeks. But that leaves the pack unbalanced , then walker enters diluting the grunt minutes even more.

Tom almost plays half
Jake plays first receiver a lot
Walker almost plays half
Foran is playing half
Dce just hasnt defined his role in the team, in a way thats beneficial anyway.
 

deanm

Reserve Grader
Totally agree with Walker going too much sideways. We were going really well up the middle , but didn't use De Luis until right at the end for 10 minutes. We also only made 7 interchanges ?? We need more Middles on the bench that just cart it up at full tilt and don't try to do any stupid flop back passes.
I know you disagree with me ... but it all goes pear shaped when walker replaces a prop ... and 25 positional changes are made ..

Yes walker plays well ... but the competition for the middle goes to hell in a hand basket.

Last night Sipley and aloaia were competing and holding their own .. then 2 props replaced with one .. and let's go backwards.

It's dumb, stupid and doesn't work other than against bottom 4 sides if Turbo is on fire and making 50 line breaks as well.
 

Eagle 1

First Grader
It’s hard to nail down what’s going wrong with Manly this year. Injuries don’t help but it’s not like we were playing well with all our cattle anyway.

For a time, I thought our pack wasn’t up to it and although I still think it’s not an elite pack, I’ve seen us compete in the middle the last couple of weeks and show intent in defence. I do still think we’re a bit short of leg speed in the forwards. But still...

Last night was down to crucial errors and piggy back penalties. We go sideways too often and we waste too tackles with settlers inside the opposition 20m. Edge defence terrible again.

That gets me to my question...is it coaching? Now I’m a big fan of Des and no I don’t think he should be sacked. However, he may need fresh support staff with new ideas to help reinvent our approach to the game. Our edge defence is poor; a new defensive structure please? New defence coach? Our attack is boring and predictable. New attacking structures please? We can’t keep running block plays to edges. Our only hope of scoring is a winger crashing over a metre in from the sidelines. Where is the threat around the ruck and through the edge backrowers?
What was disturbing, we got it to 12-4 at half time, we had a good last 15min. Thought we could go on with it, only to concede again after 5min in the 2nd half, game over !!
 

Eagle 1

First Grader
DCEs use of Koula and Olakau'atu is perplexing, to say the least.

They never seem to hit holes at pace, and rarely seem to even get space to produce even a quick ruck for the next play.

The difference between Forans side and Cherrys side is obvious.

And Walker....if he is injured, dont play him. He goes down mid set when we are on the attack at least once a game. We lost the ball on the next play last night, after our momentum was killed.
Koula needs a switch, needs to go on Forans side we need to unleash him. He's wasted on DCE side.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Koula needs a switch, needs to go on Forans side we need to unleash him. He's wasted on DCE side.
I made a post last year, that suli and parker Had issues at training wanting to both play left side

I was taking the piss but the more things change, the more they dont
 

Ron E. Gibbs

First Grader
1. Our edge defence is terrible and whenever any team gets close enough to our try line, we simply don't have the room to scramble and cover for the mistakes. By now, every player in every team knows that if you throw the ball to the left against Manly you will score a try. All it takes is a vaguely competent playmaker and we're done for.

2. Conversely, whenever we - by some miracle of luck or refereeing oversight - get anywhere near our opponents' try lines, we have absolutely no idea what to do with the ball. Last night, for example, when we got a penalty in front of the posts, I was begging for them to take the two points, which at that stage would have made the game 18-6, so we'd at least be within 12 points. Why? Because I knew we'd **** it up and I'm certain we have more chance of scoring a try from 70 metres out than we do from 10 metres out.

3. Also, we just make too many mistakes. We have no respect for possession, which forces us to do way too much defending. Which then leads us back to point number 1. The ONLY way for us to stop teams scoring against us is for us to score them first - and to keep on scoring them. But, unfortunately, that leads us back to point number 2.

Simples.
 

Eagle 1

First Grader
1. Our edge defence is terrible and whenever any team gets close enough to our try line, we simply don't have the room to scramble and cover for the mistakes. By now, every player in every team knows that if you throw the ball to the left against Manly you will score a try. All it takes is a vaguely competent playmaker and we're done for.

2. Conversely, whenever we - by some miracle of luck or refereeing oversight - get anywhere near our opponents' try lines, we have absolutely no idea what to do with the ball. Last night, for example, when we got a penalty in front of the posts, I was begging for them to take the two points, which at that stage would have made the game 18-6, so we'd at least be within 12 points. Why? Because I knew we'd **** it up and I'm certain we have more chance of scoring a try from 70 metres out than we do from 10 metres out.

3. Also, we just make too many mistakes. We have no respect for possession, which forces us to do way too much defending. Which then leads us back to point number 1. The ONLY way for us to stop teams scoring against us is for us to score them first - and to keep on scoring them. But, unfortunately, that leads us back to point number 2.

Simples.
Agree, whenever the opp attack goes on DCE's side, I just cringe, it's like a slow unfolding impending disaster.
 

madmax

Bencher
Koula needs a switch, needs to go on Forans side we need to unleash him. He's wasted on DCE side.
Olakau’atu & Koula are defending too much which is stifling their attack. More room needs to be created for both to be effective. I don’t know the resolution but our attack last season was top shelf compared to now. The reliance on Trbo is a complete negative for the team. Someone else needs to step up.
Next year my backline would be:
Trbo
Saab
Garrick (was a Center all his junior days)
Koula
Tuipulotu
Schuster
DCE
Forwards…..
Aloiai
?????????????
Paseka
Olakau’atu
Tuilagi
Jake
Res: Lawton, Keppie, Bullemore, Sipley
 

Rafferty

Mug punter
Our Approach is dated.
Our Coach, dated.
Our half dated.
Our captain, finished, we need a leader.
Our line speed not good enough.
Our structures, do we even have any?
Our defence Poor.
Our attach worse.
Our depth even worse.
Our recruitment, what recruitment.
Our future looks to be in serious trouble, time to face up to reality, our place needs a massive clean out and a fresh start from the top all the way down.
We need some passion from our owners, maybe better still, fresh ownership.
A complete overhaul of our coaching staff, time to move into the future, the Manly boys only club concept, will be the death of the place, it’s backwards thinking in a modern world, Des has had success and it’s no good bagging him, the simple fact is his time as a modern day coach has come, the game has moved away from his process and his ability to adapt, (it happened at the dogs and it’s happening again) 2 more years of this squad and this coach is going to be hard to cop, then what another 2 years of grand par Chez, before as some say he transitions into our coaching ranks, god no, please!
Our roster would take to long to asses, but its fair to say it’s not up to the task and hasn’t been for sometime, our hands are tied due to our roster being pretty much locked in until 24, please bring some youth into our side and give them some experience.
I don’t know why I‘d be writing this, it’s pointless I guess and just a vent, bottom line is we are in a mess and someone within our organisation need to own it and needs to step up and deal with it, more of the same just isn’t going to end well. I love our club and I love the game, but the game is going to **** and our once great club is sadly on the same path.
 

47MVEagle

Bencher
It's bizarre how we can go from looking like a competitive, composed, well-drilled unit & essentially beating Parra last week to looking like the rabble we were last night.

I don't know what causes this lack of consistency but it needs to be identified & eliminated.

The good thing is that we can go from looking like the rabble we were last night back to a competitive, composed, well-drilled unit just as quickly so hopefully it happens soon.
 

Rafferty

Mug punter
It's bizarre how we can go from looking like a competitive, composed, well-drilled unit & essentially beating Parra last week to looking like the rabble we were last night.

I don't know what causes this lack of consistency but it needs to be identified & eliminated.

The good thing is that we can go from looking like the rabble we were last night back to a competitive, composed, well-drilled unit just as quickly so hopefully it happens soon.

The big thing is can we? I’m not so sure and if we do, can we do it week in week out, I doubt it, our track record proofs it, wheres the improvement coming from within our current set up, it’s the same set up that hasn’t been able to produce consistent footy, adapt to the speed and changes in the game or beat the better sides, being honest it looks to me as if we could be in for some pretty tuff times, be very happy if I’m wrong. And finally I wish I could see things in a more positive light, being a realist sucks.
 

Class of 96

Bencher
That game was a really hard watch. Thought we were well and truly in it at halftime. The error count was horrific, which led to us having only 41-43% possession. It was real schoolboy stuff. No fault of the ref this week. Love Jorge, but that has to be his last FG game. Had heart palpitations whenever the ball was kicked his way, and it mostly was. Agree with all the DCE comments. He just doesn’t rev the team up when there’s an error, and can’t put our 2 biggest attacking weapons, Ola and Koula into space. I don’t want to see Schuster’s flamboyance stifled, but I would love to see a few conventional passes from him to keep the opposition under pressure. I can see us flat tracking several teams, but that seems to be the best we can muster, and nowhere good enough to shake the comp, or make the 8. Disappointing as I was expecting a huge 2022 and top 4, but we still have the foundations to be a top team next year IMHO.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
12 9 3 83 22
14 10 4 78 22
13 9 4 110 20
13 8 5 66 20
13 7 6 81 18
13 7 6 -55 18
13 7 6 133 16
14 7 7 37 16
15 8 7 -8 16
13 7 6 -34 16
13 6 6 27 15
13 6 6 26 15
13 6 7 -47 14
13 4 9 -126 12
13 4 9 -111 10
12 3 9 -123 10
12 2 10 -137 8
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