manlyfan76
There is no A.I. Just better computers
G'day Manlyfan,
Grab a coffee...I feel like typing...hahaha!!
Mate, right from the get go...I like myself the way I am. I like a laugh, a drink, a naughty and I don't mind a blue. A lot of Christians, atheists, agnostics and other religious people are the same. That's what digging around really opened my eyes to. It's all mirrors. Everyone mirrors everyone (if that makes sense) The whole show here (life) is a parody.
Atheists go about their business with the same fervour and bullheadedness that the religious folk do. Human rights activists go just as hard in the efforts to right the wrongs committed as the committers of the wrongs do. Law enforcement battles crime and drugs just as hard as the criminals fight back.
It goes around and around in every aspect of life. Cause and effect. Who stamps out who? What is right? What is truth? It's all subjective. Christians will argue the point of subjective truth and claim there are objective truths and moral absolutes. There is merit in that argument. Atheists mirror this by saying it all boils down to time, evolution and the need for the group/tribe to do the right thing by each other in order to ensure they not only survive, but thrive. Makes sense.
I didn't grow up anything remotely like a Christian (by a long, long way lol) I went to public school for the footy, fights and girls. I've never been to a church service and I see no sense in ever attending one. I've read Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris. I've read The Grand Design by Stephen hawking (Interesting side note; in this book Hawking announces that philosophy is dead and that science had killed it)
On the flip side...if I could...I'd recommend that you read The Irrational Atheist by Vox Day. That should be compulsory reading for ALL agnostics. Vox is a Christian, but this book is not about god or trying to convince or convert anyone. It's a systematic pull apart of the new atheists views and books using history and statistics. And he goes deep to the root of all the atheistic arguments. He is one Christian that takes people on and not only challenges their views and statements...but proves them wrong point by point. You will find answers and questions about historical "atrocities" in this book. If you are truly agnostic (which I think is the only true standpoint we can have...I now class myself as one) it's a must read. I think you can find the intro on youtube (robotic voice...cringe) This book is full...and I mean FULL of references to historical evidence that you can check for yourself. Heaps of it is secular evidence.
I've also read, I Am That by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. Very interesting (if a little difficult at first) read. When you weigh it up with quantum physics it's even more interesting. Then again...if you weigh Jesus and his teachings up with quantum physics it's very interesting. Was he in India for those missing years between 12 and 30??
Christians, I've found, get defensive because of the snideness that comes with how questions are put to them. I reckon they view this...and how couldn't they...as the questioner assuming they are more intelligent. Childish stuff to get a bite like...Christians believe the earth is flat or that they believe neandertal weren't human. To read the bible (and you have, so you'll know) and come to the conclusion that they believe the earth is flat would be the same as saying pretty much everyone on earth today thinks the earth is flat. Why? Because of the speech we use..."People came from the four corners of the earth to watch the Olympics" and such. Also, christian scientists know full well that humans can't breed with animals...so they know through DNA that neandetal were fully human. Creationists believe they were the people of Noah's time.
To be truly or genuinely agnostic (which I view as very solid ground) you need to not only ask questions with respect...they need to not be preloaded with a countering belief. Then, when you get your answer, use unbiased techniques to research it. Any other approach is just wasting your time. To be truly agnostic...you are either an honest and unbiased searcher for the core reasons for any or all religions...or you need a "Who cares, I'll find out in the end...one way or another". I strongly recommend including atheism in that search. Not just what the atheistic high church pastors put in their books for their followers to blindly believe, because it suits their world view...see?...mirrors again!...but the historical evidence that screams atheism is not a good idea if you want freedom and justice for all.
Good luck on your journey, mate. I can honestly tell you that...after making fun of the religious...then wondering if I was silly to do so...then investigating for the truth...then marrying up religion and science...I realised you have to be hard with yourself. Really, really hard. It's easy to fall into the trap of looking for evidence to support your theory or current worldview. It's harder...but more rewarding to look at the big picture with a calm, nonjudgmental mindset. Some people find their truth and never go back to their old ways. Some arrive where they started. Some shoot off in totally different directions altogether.
What I found is that the whole show is nothing but a mirror maze. I think everyone might just have their own truth...and therefore destiny...which is fine. Agnosticism leads me to question or search...not so much the spiritual side of things, but the material side of things.
Strangely...I remember a quote YOU made on this site once. You said something along the line of "The only truth is in history" I'm sure that wasn't it exactly...but that is what it meant. I think you are correct with that! What we know for sure is what has already happened. History! That's why I find atheism so unappealing. Sorry to all the atheists.
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj would tell you that atheism is fine because atheism is true in the atheist's reality. Agnosticism is fine because agnosticism is true in the agnostic's reality. He believed it all to be....meh...because there is something else going on altogether that we don't get. I'll let you discover what he's talking about...if you want to investigate that. Or don't. That's fine!
As for me......I like myself the way I am. I like a laugh, a drink, a naughty and I don't mind a blue...although in truth...I'm probably getting a bit old for the latter. I'll still have a lash though lol. It's human nature
All very interesting points. What is jumping out to my biased (Jung inspired ) mind is your Shadow. Carl Jung speaks of our shadow. Basically we must all confront the monsters in us to be complete, you must look deep within and truly understand that you are the monster, accept it and then be able to control it. To admit you are indeed somewhat crazy and to embrace it, not push it away for those who only push away these things infact feed their shadow. Eventually the shadow becomes you and you are crazy, murderous or violent.
A question to ponder is while you love yourself, do you love all of yourself? Do you love whats in your shadow or do you try to push it down and never look at your shadow? Because your shadow is there, how big it is depends on how much light there is. (i can hear you saying "know thyself", wonder where that came from...)
A thought for those of very firm views one way or another.
I have a mind block on whos quote it is but: what you hate in someone else, you really hate in yourself.
The Jesus in india story makes a lot of sense. They had universities of sorts and his teachings / parables are more Buddhist than any of the previous religons of the middle east. There are some Indian stories that he was there too. One of the things i most admire in the bible is the way the jesus gets people to see the issue in their mind through his parables. Have a skim through this book if you want to see what i mean
[/URL]
There is alot of good to be found in hindu and Buddhism that the west would do well to learn from. i have taken on many teachings about the self, acceptance and helping others. -Side note have you seen how marvellous the ancient indian architecture is?
You come across as pretty firm in you definition of Atheism, and what they are like. Probably from the image the big name atheists portray, myself i know plenty who have no intrest in either defending, promoting or even talking about their non belief or anyones belief and why they are wrong. I dont believe there is a god. I do believe we are perceiving that we experiencing a physical reality and it is as such defined by physical rules, math, space, time etc. this makes a god hard to exist. { interesting that how you look for an answer <physics, maths, religon> is how you find the answer} - is irony ok in a spirtual discussion or did you miss it? Lol.
That said is it possible that a multiverse / Schroeders cat senario is possible? Sure it is.
Philosophy, to me, is basically just ideas and questions. Is it dead? Ill answer that with a question:
Does science follow philosophy or philosophy follow science?
You know the nicest religous discussions ive had are with the Jehovah witnesses, they are so patient and happy to let a discussion go anywhere and not get upset like a lot of catholics can.
I learnt early on that if you want to engage catholics in a religon debate you have to lead in with a few soft questions then double back.
Yours in faith....
