omnipotent beings discussion
- Thread starter mozgrame
- Start date
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
Think this thread is way to long and out of place on a football forum? Well take a look at the Greenhouse one: The Religion Thread - Page 161 - The Greenhouse
It's 5 times as long and has been raging since 2008 🙂
It's 5 times as long and has been raging since 2008 🙂
Kevinward777
First Grader
Lol... you don’t have to do anything of the sort. The choice is entirely up to you.
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
This is what you're asking for!
Kevinward777
First Grader
I’m not asking anything of the sort...
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
You want me to respect your religion...and not just your religion but all religion because....well religion?
Kevinward777
First Grader
I don’t want you to do anything... that choice is yours and yours alone to make. Respect it or don’t. Believe it or don’t.
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
Lol, this is the very reason you are on this thread! You felt you needed to stick up for religion because people were bashing it on other threads. You've accused me of disrespect on this thread. Disrespecting what? I don't call anyone idiots for belief or anything of that nature (if I have then I will apologies) but I do not respect religion and it is the very reason we are having this discussion.
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
Anyway, please go back to your 10 commandments questioning, I'm curious to where you were planning to take this.
Kevinward777
First Grader
If heaven were to exist... have you lived a life worthy of going there? If so, why?
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
That would depend entirely on the requirements to go to such a place. I have no requirements so I don't think I can answer that question.
If you want to ask: Do you think that you have lived a good life? Then I would answer yes.
If you want to ask: Do you think you have had a positive impact on the world? Then it gets very messy. The fact that I exist in today's world means that I have a significant and negative environmental impact. I could give this up, but that would mean I make less of a positive impact in other aspects of my life. E.g I could volunteer in a third world country to improve conditions and education for people but traveling there could do some damage to the environment. As I mentioned when discussing charity before, we may think we are helping but we could be wasting our time. How do we know what is best for the world on such a grand scale- I think it would be presumptive for me to say.
Is there a points system? Wouldn't that be incredibly complicated, especially when no one knows the rules. But if you did know the rules that would ruin the test. On the subject of Hell, is it fair to be punished eternally for finite crimes?
I would thoroughly recommend watching "the Good Place" as they discuss many of these issues within a sit com.
Kevinward777
First Grader
So, you have lived a good life then?
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
In my mind yes. If I was to look at my life as though it were another's (keeping in mind that I can only do this subjectively as there are no set rules by which to measure it) then I would judge it to be good or at least ok.
Kevinward777
First Grader
Mark 2-17When Jesus heard this, he told them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
O
But here's the problem to accept that I am a sinner, would be to accept that I have sinned in the eyes of God and therefor accept God. I can't accept this sin without acknowledging that there is a sin and a God which exists. You can't accept sin and then find God - you have already established a belief in god if you acknowledge sin.
The other possibility is that you're suggesting that God/Jesus only appear to those in need. Well there's potentially a few issues with this as well.
Do you think con men target people randomly or do they seek out the most vulnerable? People who a looking for a win, or the way out of a bad situation. There are plenty of religious organisations who still practice this today - Scientology is a great one to look at. Step one: target vulnerable people. Step 2: Hook them up to an e-meter (or whatever they are using now) and tell them that you know why their lives have been suffering and that you have the cure. Now, there is a good chance that the person has their life improved greatly by becoming a member of a community (they may also suffer greatly from exploitation without realising it). But would this imply that some great external force has saved them through the realigning of their blah blah (not going to look this up).
Secondly, what does this then mean for those of us who never accept god and with it the idea that we have somehow sinned before him? Someone like Foluo wants us to accept our sin even if we think there is nothing wrong with it. So what of our souls? Is my soul safe as I don't feel sin? Or as Folou suggests am I destined for hell?
OK. So I'm guessing your suggesting that I cant "see" Jesus because I don't think that I need to be saved? So I would need to accept that I am a sinner in order to be embraced by Jesus and God and then I can understand and accept Christ, right?
But here's the problem to accept that I am a sinner, would be to accept that I have sinned in the eyes of God and therefor accept God. I can't accept this sin without acknowledging that there is a sin and a God which exists. You can't accept sin and then find God - you have already established a belief in god if you acknowledge sin.
The other possibility is that you're suggesting that God/Jesus only appear to those in need. Well there's potentially a few issues with this as well.
Do you think con men target people randomly or do they seek out the most vulnerable? People who a looking for a win, or the way out of a bad situation. There are plenty of religious organisations who still practice this today - Scientology is a great one to look at. Step one: target vulnerable people. Step 2: Hook them up to an e-meter (or whatever they are using now) and tell them that you know why their lives have been suffering and that you have the cure. Now, there is a good chance that the person has their life improved greatly by becoming a member of a community (they may also suffer greatly from exploitation without realising it). But would this imply that some great external force has saved them through the realigning of their blah blah (not going to look this up).
Secondly, what does this then mean for those of us who never accept god and with it the idea that we have somehow sinned before him? Someone like Foluo wants us to accept our sin even if we think there is nothing wrong with it. So what of our souls? Is my soul safe as I don't feel sin? Or as Folou suggests am I destined for hell?
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
From an ex con man:
To find a client's emotional need, I'll ask a bunch of personal questions. Then I'll throttle up the pressure by focusing on that need. "Oh, you lost your job? That's got to be tough." Or "So your two kids are in college and the tuition is driving you into the poorhouse." Now the person isn't thinking about whether the offer is a scam but instead, "Here's a fix for my problems."
The "crush," or the "kill" — that's what we call closing the deal — is emotionally driven. It's not logic. If you apply logic, the answer is: "No, I am not going to send you my hard-earned money. I don't even know who you are." If my victims had applied logic to our deals, they would have walked away every time.
www.aarp.org
To find a client's emotional need, I'll ask a bunch of personal questions. Then I'll throttle up the pressure by focusing on that need. "Oh, you lost your job? That's got to be tough." Or "So your two kids are in college and the tuition is driving you into the poorhouse." Now the person isn't thinking about whether the offer is a scam but instead, "Here's a fix for my problems."
The "crush," or the "kill" — that's what we call closing the deal — is emotionally driven. It's not logic. If you apply logic, the answer is: "No, I am not going to send you my hard-earned money. I don't even know who you are." If my victims had applied logic to our deals, they would have walked away every time.
How to Scam: Con Artist Tricks Revealed
“Jim Edwards” with the help of Doug Shadel, author of "Outsmarting the Scam Artists," shares information about his time as a scam artist.
Kevinward777
First Grader
What does your logic imply about me? Am I a con man? What have I asked for? Or is it that I have been conned? If so, by whom? It can’t be by a person as I came to faith alone in a house without a bible in sight.From an ex con man:
To find a client's emotional need, I'll ask a bunch of personal questions. Then I'll throttle up the pressure by focusing on that need. "Oh, you lost your job? That's got to be tough." Or "So your two kids are in college and the tuition is driving you into the poorhouse." Now the person isn't thinking about whether the offer is a scam but instead, "Here's a fix for my problems."
The "crush," or the "kill" — that's what we call closing the deal — is emotionally driven. It's not logic. If you apply logic, the answer is: "No, I am not going to send you my hard-earned money. I don't even know who you are." If my victims had applied logic to our deals, they would have walked away every time.
How to Scam: Con Artist Tricks Revealed
“Jim Edwards” with the help of Doug Shadel, author of "Outsmarting the Scam Artists," shares information about his time as a scam artist.
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
I simply feel that there are similarities between this and the message from Jesus you posted and in the way that many religions recruit followers.
It's hard to convince people of something illogical when they are comfortable and confident in themselves. But reach out to a vulnerable person and it is much easier to strike an emotional cord which can then be used to get the individual to buy into an idea.
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
Would you like to explain what you think this passage means and why you think it is relevant to me? Also whether you believe that this means I to will be saved on death, or destined for hell as a non believer or breaker of the 10 commandments?
Kevinward777
First Grader
By your own account... you are a good person who has lived a good life. So, carry on... don’t worry and live your life as you wish. It’s not my job to determine whether you will or won’t be saved upon death. Just as it isn’t my role to judge whether or not you have lived a good life.
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