Not a surprise...

[Snake]

Snake here - I thought we’d compete much better tonight and at least put up a fight but as I said a little earlier in the year when people got excited about our earlier performance against Melbourne, they get better not worse come finals time...so not the biggest shock tonight.

I remember saying at the same time, that you don’t just suddenly become a premiership contender overnight...it’s a build. Penrith’s build is ahead of ours and obviously Melbourne are always thereabouts. Tonight, some youth got some much needed experience and will learn from it...it should help with the build.

no need to crucify Hasler’s coaching, Harper’s performance, Daly’s leadership or anything else. None of it is about these guys not being up to it or good enough. It’s a team sport and right now for various reasons, we are not the ‘team’ that the likes of Melbourne are. It’s disappointing but it’s the reality. You don’t just become a contender after 20 games of footy and some big wins against lowly ranked sides. There are so many moving parts that to simply wish to be superior to the likes of the Storm and kick stones because we aren’t, is denying reality. They’re a great side.

Tom’s game was not his fault...no platform to play off. Not sure why these dim witted commentators are talking about tactics to combat him...they didn’t do anything specific, they just beat our entire team across the park so naturally he was quiet. The pack is lacking some personnel that’s for sure.

 

[skull61]

Oh cmon man stop making sense after all this is Silvertails we only do knee jerk reactions here

 

[joeboy]

I agree with all that, however I did think our more experienced players had. Very off games.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Snake here - I thought we’d compete much better tonight and at least put up a fight but as I said a little earlier in the year when people got excited about our earlier performance against Melbourne, they get better not worse come finals time...so not the biggest shock tonight.

I remember saying at the same time, that you don’t just suddenly become a premiership contender overnight...it’s a build. Penrith’s build is ahead of ours and obviously Melbourne are always thereabouts. Tonight, some youth got some much needed experience and will learn from it...it should help with the build.

no need to crucify Hasler’s coaching, Harper’s performance, Daly’s leadership or anything else. None of it is about these guys not being up to it or good enough. It’s a team sport and right now for various reasons, we are not the ‘team’ that the likes of Melbourne are. It’s disappointing but it’s the reality. You don’t just become a contender after 20 games of footy and some big wins against lowly ranked sides. There are so many moving parts that to simply wish to be superior to the likes of the Storm and kick stones because we aren’t, is denying reality. They’re a great side.

Tom’s game was not his fault...no platform to play off. Not sure why these dim witted commentators are talking about tactics to combat him...they didn’t do anything specific, they just beat our entire team across the park so naturally he was quiet. The pack is lacking some personnel that’s for sure.

Yeah, I think this is a reasonably good balanced response. That said, I do think there were some glaring issues that were preventable, even if the loss wasn't. My #1 concern was not trying to establish a strong tough presence up the middle from the start... and that was not just today, but often this season. It looks spectacular when we are scoring amazing long range tries against lesser teams with less at stake during the regular season... just doesn't cut it in final intensity footy. That tactically is on Des and his coaching.

Secondly, Turbo should be called out, and I certainly hope he sits down and has an honest look at his performance tonight. Yes, his forwards didn't lay a platform for him (see my first point) and the Storm played him well.... BUT, his response was extremely disappointing. There is no reason for him to not touch the ball in an attacking set of six once we did get it. That happened too often tonight. I recall a specific moment in the second half where Storm knocked on attacking our line and the ball bounced to Tom. Instead of focusing and pouncing on the ball to look for an opportunity, he gave up on the play and settled for the knock on turnover in our defensive 10m. It just showed me he had thrown up the white flag and that is something I never expected to see from Tom.

Finally, why are Storm a great side? Why are they consistently in the top year after year? Where is their "build"? They bring in rookies and no-names and they get the job done. When we (or other teams) don't do it, it's because we are inexperienced and developing. Why doesn't development and inexperience count for Melbourne? Maybe we have something to learn from them? Though, given nobody has learned yet after decades I wont hold my breath.

 

[Remy]

Very good take

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Yep pretty much exactly as I am thinking, it’s why I posted numerous times last night not to be too harsh on the youngsters.

I keep referring to the 2005-6 era when we were building and especially the first final we played in 2006 after almost a decade.

We were walloped.

And many at the time called for the heads of some young players we had in that team ( yes just like many last night and today ).

Players like , Brett Stewart , Glen Stewart ( apparently he was only there to appease his brother who was the more talented of the two) and a much maligned young Centre called Steve Matai.

History goes on to show that team , and those players dominated for a decade.

We need long term faith.

 

[Yaz Eagle]

The youngsters got a taste of finals last night and I expect them to bounce back next week. They have done it before this season where after we played the Storm we took it out on the Eels the following week, then seem to go on a 3 game winning run. Having Crocker back at least brings back some stability to the structure of our attack. We really missed Sipley last night and hopefully he comes on the bench next week. We have done a lot of hard work this season to go out in straight sets. I still have faith we can win this year - you just need the rub of the green, 50/50 calls go for you, and cut out mistakes.

 

[maxta]

Not to defend some poor handling and missed tackles out wide, but they simply blew us up in the middle....the enthusiasm of Brandon Smith and his merry men really showed our pack what finals footy is all about.
The comparison of line speed was night and day, as Melbourne were meeting us on the advantage line and hitting with intent....they also knew how to take advantage of finals footy with extra time in the ruck and a good 2-3 metres headstart in defence for the entire game.
the best way I would describe Manly's performance is "Deers in the headlights"...this happens across the sporting world in boxing, soccer, AFL and....rugby league....and there is 1 positive....Manly now have had that stunned mullet performance and should be back to playing footy....plus let's give credit to a ruthless Storm team who really know what big time footy is all about, just maybe it's a lesson we needed to Improve ?
Time will tell, but in reality its hopefully a game the young players learn from, or they are simply still a year or 2 away from success.

 

[court83]

I still think we need better centres... Been saying it all year long.. not a "knee jerk reaction", were just very ordinary in the centres.. Parker and Harper try their best, which is all you can ask, but apart from occasionally linking with Garrick for a break, Parker does sweet fa that counts... Never breaks the line when he hits it, has 0 impact ball in hand at all really... Harper had an off night last night for sure, but he's been pretty bad the last 4 weeks or so anyway, too much ball hogging, not enough team play.. and again, pretty ineffective ball in hand unless on the tryline..
Compare them with Olam, who isn't a flashy centre by any means but made our guys look absolutely second rate all night long..
Look at Burton at the Panthers, not using his youth as an excuse over there... The kid isn't even a centre yet is dangerous every time he has a ball in his hands... He will be the difference between penny winning or losing this gf..

We have good wingers, an incredible fullback, good halves, and strong young back row and and big dangerous forward pack, where we are constantly let down is having below average centres and makeshift hooker..
Hit the market, buy a couple of decent centres and play Lawton at 9 from the start of the year (I'm assuming we will pay fainu full price to not play yet another season)
And we will improve... But with this current line up, our last game will be penny in 2 weeks time and they are gonna outclass us.. and score plenty out wide...
Not negative, just an honest assesment of this team... Top 4 was a brilliant achievement, to better it, we need better players in a few spots

 

[QLDSeaeagle]

It just showed me he had thrown up the white flag and that is something I never expected to see from Tom.

He was guilty of watching play, with zero involvement or intent to involve.

 

[Woodsie]

The more things change ... the more they stay the same ... one tried and tested truth for over 100 years in Rugby League is ... you have to earn the right up the guts, before you play wide expansive footy ...

I am a moderate judge of footy ... but I confess that I am having trouble working out what our main game strategy is ... have we been lulled into a false sense of security with our razzle dazzle response to the new age era rules, have we been hoodwinked by our own success against moderate opposition over the past 8 weeks? ... have we forgotten that razzle dazzle works far better against a retreating defense?

Maybe a better student of the game can help me ...

 

[Woodsie]

Just on Harper .. his defense and energy have been enough for him to get over the top, or at least play off a break, all of the centres he's played against this year .... so much so he has become a fan favourite ...

Last game he had trouble tackling Olam ... and again last night he took a bath ... but then again ... Olam has given every centre he's played against this year a bath ....

Writing Harper off is nonsense.

 

[MW66]

Snake here - I thought we’d compete much better tonight and at least put up a fight but as I said a little earlier in the year when people got excited about our earlier performance against Melbourne, they get better not worse come finals time...so not the biggest shock tonight.

I remember saying at the same time, that you don’t just suddenly become a premiership contender overnight...it’s a build. Penrith’s build is ahead of ours and obviously Melbourne are always thereabouts. Tonight, some youth got some much needed experience and will learn from it...it should help with the build.

no need to crucify Hasler’s coaching, Harper’s performance, Daly’s leadership or anything else. None of it is about these guys not being up to it or good enough. It’s a team sport and right now for various reasons, we are not the ‘team’ that the likes of Melbourne are. It’s disappointing but it’s the reality. You don’t just become a contender after 20 games of footy and some big wins against lowly ranked sides. There are so many moving parts that to simply wish to be superior to the likes of the Storm and kick stones because we aren’t, is denying reality. They’re a great side.

Tom’s game was not his fault...no platform to play off. Not sure why these dim witted commentators are talking about tactics to combat him...they didn’t do anything specific, they just beat our entire team across the park so naturally he was quiet. The pack is lacking some personnel that’s for sure.

Good summary. When you consider we haven't beaten any of Storm, Penrith, Souths, Roosters this year (and yes I know we haven't played a couple of them since early rounds) it was a likely outcome to lose to the Storm. However I guess what disappoints me most is that we didn't show enough fight and enthusiam. I can accept losing but I do not think the Storm are a 28 point better team on paper. In fact I know they are not. And in another thread I mentioned I was concerned about letting Suli go (because I feel our centres are below par compared to other Top 8 teams) and we were very weak in this area last night. While I understand Suli leaks points, we leaked points last night regardless and he is a big body who actually dents the defensive line. I wouldn't make too many changes but one of Walker or Suli must play centre next week, Croker hopefully back and I would consider Schuster to the bench and Lawton or Aloai starting in the 2nd row.

 

[skull61]

Been saying this all week but we are unlikely to win these games 12-10 or low scoring. More likely going to win shoot out 34-30 or something so go all out attack I say which means Suli and Walker to centre’s in my opinion. Also these 2 give extra oomph with their carries out of our end than Parker and Harper

 

[QLDSeaeagle]

I am a moderate judge of footy ... but I confess that I am having trouble working out what our main game strategy is

I am also a moderate judge of footy, are you saying we had a strategy, I couldn't spot one.

 

[manly al]

Fair enough the Storm completely out played Manly but not sure what a building process consideration has got to do with a high percentage of unforced errors , subsequent poor completion rates , undisciplined play and basic defensive misses . Which seemed mainly self inflicted by Manly last night and surely something that could be avoided with better application and attitude and with the calibre of players still in the squad . Opportunity is here and now with a relatively healthy roster and quite strong line up to make a serious tilt for a title . Not too sure how next season or near future seasons are going to present any better opportunities , are going to have pretty much the same line up so surely better to get their act together with whatever opportunities are still there for this season . Still got the playing personal to be more then competitive . Walker showed last night a quality player can still make a difference , quite a few others still had a decent dig but if the side collectively don 't get the fundamentals right and the leadership group can"t set the right tone again in the here and now , no guarantee it is going to get any better next season or there after . Koula and possibly Bullermor are the only additions who may bring some improvement and we are losing a strike centre in Suli . , hope again that things can be turned around pronto , surely the side is capable of some much better footy then last night;s underwhelming display

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Snake here - I thought we’d compete much better tonight and at least put up a fight but as I said a little earlier in the year when people got excited about our earlier performance against Melbourne, they get better not worse come finals time...so not the biggest shock tonight.

I remember saying at the same time, that you don’t just suddenly become a premiership contender overnight...it’s a build. Penrith’s build is ahead of ours and obviously Melbourne are always thereabouts. Tonight, some youth got some much needed experience and will learn from it...it should help with the build.

no need to crucify Hasler’s coaching, Harper’s performance, Daly’s leadership or anything else. None of it is about these guys not being up to it or good enough. It’s a team sport and right now for various reasons, we are not the ‘team’ that the likes of Melbourne are. It’s disappointing but it’s the reality. You don’t just become a contender after 20 games of footy and some big wins against lowly ranked sides. There are so many moving parts that to simply wish to be superior to the likes of the Storm and kick stones because we aren’t, is denying reality. They’re a great side.

Tom’s game was not his fault...no platform to play off. Not sure why these dim witted commentators are talking about tactics to combat him...they didn’t do anything specific, they just beat our entire team across the park so naturally he was quiet. The pack is lacking some personnel that’s for sure.

I don’t think the storm were playing absolutely amazing. We were just having one of those games like against newcastle. Absolutely terrible with the ball. No intensity. Flat. No confrontation. No line speed. No nothing.

Still can’t believe the performance of Martin Taupau (who imo was our worst), our forwards and Harper. Parker and Foran unfortunatley turned invisible.

Meanwhile Walker was great. Just about the only player.

 

[Budgie]

The more things change ... the more they stay the same ... one tried and tested truth for over 100 years in Rugby League is ... you have to earn the right up the guts, before you play wide expansive footy ...

I am a moderate judge of footy ... but I confess that I am having trouble working out what our main game strategy is ... have we been lulled into a false sense of security with our razzle dazzle response to the new age era rules, have we been hoodwinked by our own success against moderate opposition over the past 8 weeks? ... have we forgotten that razzle dazzle works far better against a retreating defense?

Maybe a better student of the game can help me ...

I'm way less of a student than your good self but I wonder if Dylan Walker replacing a big boofy bloke is the right thing against strong opposition. I know he brings flair and enthusiasm but shouldn't a tough forward replace a tough forward?
What to do with Dylan is another whole question.

 

[Budgie]

but if the side collectively don 't get the fundamentals right and the leadership group can"t set the right tone again in the here and now , no guarantee it is going to get any better next season

I think that's always been my problem with DCE as captain. He just doesn't seem to demand performance or give the right 'talk' when they're down. Oh for a Jamie Lyon!

 

[Snake]

Yeah, I think this is a reasonably good balanced response. That said, I do think there were some glaring issues that were preventable, even if the loss wasn't. My #1 concern was not trying to establish a strong tough presence up the middle from the start... and that was not just today, but often this season. It looks spectacular when we are scoring amazing long range tries against lesser teams with less at stake during the regular season... just doesn't cut it in final intensity footy. That tactically is on Des and his coaching.

Secondly, Turbo should be called out, and I certainly hope he sits down and has an honest look at his performance tonight. Yes, his forwards didn't lay a platform for him (see my first point) and the Storm played him well.... BUT, his response was extremely disappointing. There is no reason for him to not touch the ball in an attacking set of six once we did get it. That happened too often tonight. I recall a specific moment in the second half where Storm knocked on attacking our line and the ball bounced to Tom. Instead of focusing and pouncing on the ball to look for an opportunity, he gave up on the play and settled for the knock on turnover in our defensive 10m. It just showed me he had thrown up the white flag and that is something I never expected to see from Tom.

Finally, why are Storm a great side? Why are they consistently in the top year after year? Where is their "build"? They bring in rookies and no-names and they get the job done. When we (or other teams) don't do it, it's because we are inexperienced and developing. Why doesn't development and inexperience count for Melbourne? Maybe we have something to learn from them? Though, given nobody has learned yet after decades I wont hold my breath.

A lot of what you're saying make sense...but I will address two thoughts I'm having...

For me, Tom was where he normally is in attacking sets...ready to be on the end of set plays but because the middle was so badly exposed, there was no ruck speed, which meant no rhythm to the attack and the ball rarely got the extremities where he lurks. I know he pops up in the middle of the ruck at times, but that can only happen off the back of momentum, something we generate against lesser opposition. Pappy was MOM and ran for only 7m more than Tom.

Also, my fault for not clarifying but when I talk about 'build' I am referring to coming from the bottom of the ladder to suddenly challenge for a premiership. Melbourne haven't been down the bottom of the ladder due in large part to a coach that is far and away the best the game has ever seen...hence, they haven't had to build. It's already built. A good example is St George of 2009. They were nowhere near a premiership in 2008 but they won the minor premiership in 09 and went out in straight sets and were comprehensively beaten both weeks (Eels and Broncs respectively). So many young players were there for the first time and hadn't learnt what it was all about yet. They were also tired from being 'up' for most of the year. They came back and won it the following year. Penrith may just do that this year. So my point is, I don't think this was ever 'our year' because we are not at that level yet. We'll have to work our way up to it. How long a team stays there once they get there is another matter altogether, which is why a comparison to Melbourne is off the mark (We made the finals 10 straight years last time we built something).