Not a surprise...

[Snake]

I think that's always been my problem with DCE as captain. He just doesn't seem to demand performance or give the right 'talk' when they're down. Oh for a Jamie Lyon!

Thurston, Johns or Cronk couldn't have demanded anything with the way the forwards were dominated in the middle. I think he is a decent captain but when the team loses, it's easy to knock the captain but we were beaten by a much better team...no amount of leadership and individual skill could have turned that around last night.

 

[Scorpio]

Paseka 88m
Jake 46m
Haumole 81m
Marty 76m
Aloiai 51m
Keppie 8m
Sironen 20m

No football match is being won with numbers like that.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Finally, why are Storm a great side? Why are they consistently in the top year after year? Where is their "build"? They bring in rookies and no-names and they get the job done. When we (or other teams) don't do it, it's because we are inexperienced and developing. Why doesn't development and inexperience count for Melbourne? Maybe we have something to learn from them? Though, given nobody has learned yet after decades I wont hold my breath.

Melbourne are consistent in large part to good management at front office level over many years, their cap cheating aside.

Manly on the other hand have spent more than a decade overcoming off-field ructions that eventually destabilised on-field performances. Example: how many CEOs have we had over the last 15 years? The answer - too many.

Hasler and Humphreys are working to get that settled approach back.

 

[Tomay]

Flashy high points scoring teams are always overrated when finals time comes around. Finals are won by the teams that can win the territory battle, have patience, capitalise when the opportunities come and dedicate themselves to continuous defensive effort. Manly’s premiership winning teams in the past were all able to do this.

Our team needs to learn to do this too. They’re young but have the right guy at the top to teach them. I think we are a victim of our form and draw. A few tough defensive games leading into the finals would have been ideal.

We need to get back to dominating the middle before we spread the ball in attack. We need to improve our line speed and tighten our defence in the middle to allow the outside guys a chance, rather than being on the back foot with players coming at them at speed. We need everyone to show more desperation to get there just in case. We need to be comfortable absorbing pressure and recognising that it will turn around instead of panicking and trying to force something. Everything else will follow.

 

[Snake]

I don’t think the storm were playing absolutely amazing. We were just having one of those games like against newcastle. Absolutely terrible with the ball. No intensity. Flat. No confrontation. No line speed. No nothing.

Still can’t believe the performance of Martin Taupau (who imo was our worst), our forwards and Harper. Parker and Foran unfortunatley turned invisible.

Meanwhile Walker was great. Just about the only player.

Melbourne's line speed and aggression in defence accounted for a large portion of our performance. That's how you win finals. Obviously we didn't match their intensity but the first and second try seemed to mentally screw with our heads. Given it was such a tight contest for 60 minutes the first time we met Melbourne...it's almost like, mentally, we felt as if we'd lost touch after 10 minutes last night. Like the mountain was going to be too hard to climb because we'd tried climbing before and knew how difficult it was.

 

[Snake]

Paseka 88m
Jake 46m
Haumole 81m
Marty 76m
Aloiai 51m
Keppie 8m
Sironen 20m

No football match is being won with numbers like that.

It's one of those chicken or the egg scenarios. They're the run metres because possession was dominated by the opposition, or are those metres an indicator of a lack of intensity...when you turn over possession, it also has a residual impact on the petrol tank. Also, when you spread wide with the ball all the time, the forwards make less runs.

Either way, I said before the game that I wasn't a fan of the sideways thing against Melbourne because you don't tire their middle out and it is risky...sure enough, it didn't work.

 

[manly al]

I think that's always been my problem with DCE as captain. He just doesn't seem to demand performance or give the right 'talk' when they're down. Oh for a Jamie Lyon!

Yeah , Killer was great , not just with his on field leadership and influence but his calming influence as well . D C E generally needs things going his way to be at his best and set the example, showed his skill level last night with Saab"s try but really needed much more to lift the side or instill some confidence .

 

[Chip and Chase]

Thurston, Johns or Cronk couldn't have demanded anything with the way the forwards were dominated in the middle. I think he is a decent captain but when the team loses, it's easy to knock the captain but we were beaten by a much better team...no amount of leadership and individual skill could have turned that around last night.

The thing is his leadership style is to try harder, it then descends into frantic, no structure, headless chook footy. We used to call Watmough "Blue Arse" because he was like a blue arse fly - all over the shop, bouncing off walls, running in circles, playing manic footy. That's what DCE reminds me off in games like last night. You can never fault his effort, it's his lack of composure that gets me. The young guys see that and it then rubs off on their game. Foran has to take some blame here too, he needs to get in there and use his experience to calm everyone down. Make a big play, rally the team. You never saw Jamie Lyon panic, you'd never know if he was up by 30 or down by 40 by looking at the way he played.

We may not have been able to turn around the result but we could have turned around our effort and the way we competed as a learning experience, even after that game was gone. Set little targets, try and win the one on ones, wrest back control of the middle, execute your game plans. Learn and grow That's where good leadership comes in.

I'm mindful of the fact that we are a very young and inexperienced side, especially when it comes to finals footy. I reckon only DCE and Foz had been in a top 4 finishing side before and all the pressure that comes with that . The young guys will get something out of last night for sure, they have learnt what finals intensity is and how it's a complete new ball game. I bet they understand now about being able to find an extra gear when needed.

How we bounce back next week is going to be worth seeing. Des has finals experience coming out the wazoo, let's see what magic he can work. We won't get ambushed two weeks in a row I'm hoping.

 

[manly al]

Just can 't seem to get a consistent and competitive level of completion rates , in plain terms , just hang on to the bloody pill and cut down on the unforced errors and particularly last night also some unprofessional and undisciplined play . Can only expect to be constantly under pressure and under the pump when that is occurring , especially in a final "s match against the likes of the Storm . References to field position , line speed , controlling the ruck etc . is just academic if a side can "t get the basics right .

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I think we’ll be like many sides before us , young side, post well all year , no finals experience and out in straight sets.

But boy it’ll make us hungry in 2022.

 

[Shoe1]

You can’t but experience, but the team just got some the hard way. They will be better for it.

 

[Woodsie]

I'm way less of a student than your good self but I wonder if Dylan Walker replacing a big boofy bloke is the right thing against strong opposition. I know he brings flair and enthusiasm but shouldn't a tough forward replace a tough forward?
What to do with Dylan is another whole question.

Agree ... some games it will be a success .. against teams like Melb. with a committed and fit forward pack on the front foot it can be a disaster ... time will tell ...

 

[Snake]

The thing is his leadership style is to try harder, it then descends into frantic, no structure, headless chook footy. We used to call Watmough "Blue Arse" because he was like a blue arse fly - all over the shop, bouncing off walls, running in circles, playing manic footy. That's what DCE reminds me off in games like last night. You can never fault his effort, it's his lack of composure that gets me. The young guys see that and it then rubs off on their game. Foran has to take some blame here too, he needs to get in there and use his experience to calm everyone down. Make a big play, rally the team. You never saw Jamie Lyon panic, you'd never know if he was up by 30 or down by 40 by looking at the way he played.

We may not have been able to turn around the result but we could have turned around our effort and the way we competed as a learning experience, even after that game was gone. Set little targets, try and win the one on ones, wrest back control of the middle, execute your game plans. Learn and grow That's where good leadership comes in.

I think that's all fair and valid. Certainly agree that Lyon was always composed. Daly's risky flick pass last night that barrelled into an opposition defender for a crucial turn over is evidence of what you're saying.

I also agree re turning around the little things. I remember thinking during the game that we needed to restore some pride and take some confidence out of coming home with a wet sail...instead we just seemed to still chase the game with desperation and fell apart time and again.

A glancing look at Manly from an objective point of view screams 'great attacking side with some flair but lacking in resilience and character'. I'm not one for falling into the trap of thinking personnel turns everything around, but I've had fears about our pack all year...I think we need a James Graham/Hargreaves type leader in the middle that is just headstrong and leads from the front.

 

[tookey]

 

[lsz]

Yep pretty much exactly as I am thinking, it’s why I posted numerous times last night not to be too harsh on the youngsters.

I keep referring to the 2005-6 era when we were building and especially the first final we played in 2006 after almost a decade.

We were walloped.

And many at the time called for the heads of some young players we had in that team ( yes just like many last night and today ).

Players like , Brett Stewart , Glen Stewart ( apparently he was only there to appease his brother who was the more talented of the two) and a much maligned young Centre called Steve Matai.

History goes on to show that team , and those players dominated for a decade.
Was th

Was that game against saints at the old SFS i think? BK's last game for us and we got flogged something like 28-0? I was there that day and thought it was a sign of better things to come much like last night

 

[Snake]

Just can 't seem to get a consistent and competitive level of completion rates , in plain terms , just hang on to the bloody pill and cut down on the unforced errors and particularly last night also some unprofessional and undisciplined play . Can only expect to be constantly under pressure and under the pump when that is occurring , especially in a final "s match against the likes of the Storm . References to field position , line speed , controlling the ruck etc . is just academic if a side can "t get the basics right .

Completion rates have been a disaster but I think they have a fair bit to do with the style of football we play. It's high risk. If we had a more damaging pack, we wouldn't need to do as often. Melbourne forcing you to guide wide just plays into their hands IMO. You've gotta unsettle their middle. It's hard but not impossible if you match them for aggression and intensity.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Was that game against saints at the old SFS i think? BK's last game for us and we got flogged something like 28-0? I was there that day and thought it was a sign of better things to come much like last night

Yep that’s the one , and ditto I was there.

Really felt sad for BK he was so instrumental in the belief that team created yet wasn’t able to be there for its success just a few years later.

 

[lsz]

Yep that’s the one , and ditto I was there.

Really felt sad for BK he was so instrumental in the belief that team created yet wasn’t able to be there for its success just a few years later.

I went with some saints supporters....it was awful

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I went with some saints supporters....it was awful

Yes , I’d come down from Moree so it was an airfare , taxis and overnight accommodation. I remember walking back to the hotel after the game feeling very very deflated.

I mentioned this game many times last night, apart from the scoreline it was almost identical.

Youngsters , overawed , blown off the park within 20 minutes.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Melbourne's line speed and aggression in defence accounted for a large portion of our performance. That's how you win finals. Obviously we didn't match their intensity but the first and second try seemed to mentally screw with our heads. Given it was such a tight contest for 60 minutes the first time we met Melbourne...it's almost like, mentally, we felt as if we'd lost touch after 10 minutes last night. Like the mountain was going to be too hard to climb because we'd tried climbing before and knew how difficult it was.

Yeah the fast start absolutely killed us. Players like schuster started moping around and harper/trbo got into their heads.

As for the storm being great. In the first ten minutes yes, but they were given a free walk by us. I don’t really think either side started with crazy finals intensity. Rather we just looked completely flat. The storm must’ve been surprised with how easy their first 3 tries came. We just put our heads down for the first 80 minutes