Non quality players?

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Some comments on some of our backs as I see them this year.

Tommy T: Athletic tall body with a decent amount of speed. Can sniff out tries, and starting to back up well at times. Showing improvement in his covering tackles on long range breaks and has a potential passing game (both need much further work). Really needs to further develop positional play, confidence under high balls at both ends and communication from the back. What I would call an emotion-based player, which can make him vulnerable when things aren't going right or team mates are down. Would also like to see him hit the line with more intent and use a bit of leg drive, rather than immediately crumbling at first contact.

Kelly: Given his lack of standout power or blistering speed, it's difficult to know what he will become. I think we all agree he has been thrown into the deep end a bit too early and probably needs more time in lower grades to grow and develop before deciding whether he has a future or not. He does show some good footy instincts at times, and has found the line on numerous occasions, but may not be enough in this modern game. Obviously, some glaring defensive deficiencies have been highlighted this year, but again, may just be a sign of inexperience at this level and need time to develop (may also improve with a bit more meat on the bones). I don't feel comfortable if we are looking to him to fill that centre position for us again next year.

Parker: In the two games he played, and putting the costly Tigpie fumble aside, he did show a reasonable amount of composure and seemed more solid in that centre defensive position than Kelly. He seems to have a greater physical presence and could be a useful weapon in the air at both ends with some time invested in this aspect of his game. I would like to see more of him in firsts, assuming we don't pick up a marquee centre for next year. Feel more confident with him there than Kelly.

Green: Certainly has shown the importance of an organising half to bring out the best of DCE this year. His attacking zone kicking game has been outstanding. He is a very poor defender and doesn't offer much else beyond the basic organising and control of possession. With enough talent around him in other positions that may be enough but would need to do it consistently week in and week out... again, assuming we don't pick up a marquee organising half. Nevertheless, he does need much stronger defenders alongside him to help cover those deficiencies if he is to stay.
 
You guys know I respect everyone's opinion, but this roster full strength (albeit 1.2M less than every other team) is top 4 quality in my opinion.

Great post @anthonyb1965 spot on mate

No disrespect but in my opinion we have zero 2nd rowers, one decent centre, 1 prop and a very ordinary 5/8.

There is no way our roster sits anywhere near the likes of Storm, Roosters, Sharks, Cowboys and Broncos. We are two or three seasons away from those sides.
 
Here we go again knocking young Kelly. He's playing his first year in first grade. Remember Walker last year. Remember Koroisau last year. Sironen was going no where after his first year. I know of very few players who do great things in their first year. And if they do they are usually found out in their second year. In my mind it takes a player about 2 years of first grade to reach a consistent first class level. Kelly is a kid from last years U20s who started well but is finding it tough to maintain consistency. So what first year novice doesnt find one of their first two years hard going. I suspect by next year a bigger and meaner Brian Kelly might just surprise some of us. If not, at least give him the support to try to make the grade instead of continually putting him down.
I agree and felt the same way you do just before this dogs game but geez that performance was unforgivable from him. I want to see him develop more and in the meantime we are better off giving the centre position to someone like Lane (I reckon good option) or even Lewis Brown (last resort) unless we want to risk it with another young player
 
No disrespect but in my opinion we have zero 2nd rowers, one decent centre, 1 prop and a very ordinary 5/8.

There is no way our roster sits anywhere near the likes of Storm, Roosters, Sharks, Cowboys and Broncos. We are two or three seasons away from those sides.
Sironen has proved a good second-rower. He had some really good elements of his game developing before that injury. His defence was improving plenty, as was his involvement. We are certainly lacking another quality second rower though as Winterstein has only managed to prove himself on rare occasions.
 
Here we go again knocking young Kelly. He's playing his first year in first grade. Remember Walker last year. Remember Koroisau last year. Sironen was going no where after his first year. I know of very few players who do great things in their first year. And if they do they are usually found out in their second year. In my mind it takes a player about 2 years of first grade to reach a consistent first class level. Kelly is a kid from last years U20s who started well but is finding it tough to maintain consistency. So what first year novice doesnt find one of their first two years hard going. I suspect by next year a bigger and meaner Brian Kelly might just surprise some of us. If not, at least give him the support to try to make the grade instead of continually putting him down.
Kelly was given support by our coach for over 20 rounds and we have seen enough . Most of us support the club going forward and not the inept players who are bringing the club down missing tackles dropping balls and being run down in the clear .
From what I have seen I rate the slow Kelly to take his place on this team of players that supporters like you though would surprise us .
1. Sam Murphy
2. Brett Grogan
3. Brayden Williame
4. Brian Kelly
5. Joel Penny
6. Luke Dorn
7. Adam Brown
8. Danny Costello
9. Jay Bandy
10. Chris White
11. Wade Forester
12. Lewis Brown
13. Greg Ebril
Coach: The one and only Bearfax

We all have our views and that is why I love this forum .
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Sure , if we had Smith, Cronk & Slater we might be able to cover those errors too!

But Tom is supposed to be OUR Slater...............that's the difference!!!
How can we be a quality team when our so called stars are the ones f***ing up!!

You expect him to be as good as Slater at 20 years of age. Your expectations are warped.
 
You expect him to be as good as Slater at 20 years of age. Your expectations are warped.

Indeed they must be.............

How ridiculous of me to expect an NRL player on 700k/800k a season to be able to pass backwards!!!

I stand corrected!
 
Snake dropped 4 bombs in the one game at Suncorp in 2005, he was no good under the high ball.
I'm a big fan of of Tom. My point is that Tom has allowed too many high balls to bounce and put our team under undue pressure. And that has been pretty consistent throughout the season. You could allow the great snake some reprieve as he must have had ONE shocker of a game at Suncorp in 2005. Tom has a lot of skills and speed. But he needs to be more consistent and disciplined in the way he approaches and reads the game. Maybe he lost a lot of confidence when he got smashed attempting to take the high ball before the origin period.. Who knows? But one thing for sure is that he has a lot of basic niggling traits that need to be ironed out before you can put him in the same breath as the great snake.
 
I'm a big fan of of Tom. My point is that Tom has allowed too many high balls to bounce and put our team under undue pressure. And that has been pretty consistent throughout the season. You could allow the great snake some reprieve as he must have had ONE shocker of a game at Suncorp in 2005. Tom has a lot of skills and speed. But he needs to be more consistent and disciplined in the way he approaches and reads the game. Maybe he lost a lot of confidence when he got smashed attempting to take the high ball before the origin period.. Who knows? But one thing for sure is that he has a lot of basic niggling traits that need to be ironed out before you can put him in the same breath as the great snake.

Of course he's not as good as Snake in his prime. Not many have been. Tom at 20 is better than Snake at 20 though. Snake's development was phenomenal though, so I don't know whether Tom will ever reach those heights, but he has the potential. Tom is still in the Top 5 fullbacks in the game, you can't deny that.
 
I hope we atleast look for a quality hooker... Korisau isnt bad, but his type of hooker never has long term success..
Look at the better hookers of the last 10 years.. Smith, friend,ballin,ennis, lesser extent McCollough and peats, all similar in what they bring to the table... Solid workhorse types that can kick... But mostly know their job and control the the forwards...
I dont like the livewire type 9s, sure they have a year or 2 of success but nothing compared to the blokes i just mentiones... The korisau,hodges,segearo,lichaa, luke style players.. All livewires, all love the individual stuff, the constant shoot from dummy to do their own thing style of hooker, each has had a stellar year or two, but name one that has been anywhere close to as consistant or dominant as the workhorse type...
At worst we need a lestrange type for the bench
 
I agree with most about Blake Green in defence especially but let's take a step back and remember the guy is on 300K a season. For that money you ain't getting a top line all round half. He is doing well.

Tom is Top Shelf as a footballer regardless of a couple of errors and reads. I still think he would make a better centre than Full Back and he would be very hard to stop on the edge drawing in a couple of defenders to contain and also 5th tackle high balls would be his everytime (less pressure taking a high ball in attack than defence). He is just a bit down on confidence and that Broncos game where he got injured would be in the back of his mind everytime and opposing teams know this. He will come good. However his preferred position is fullback and without another option that's where he'll keep playing. Those that say he isn't top class, would you like to see the club get rid of him? If you say yes then you are wrong, no compromises there.

Last time i checked Matt Wright is covering as we have lost our starting and preferred winger for the season. With a $1M+ disadvantage it very hard to sign depth players, makes it harder with only 23/25 players available from the get go. So again we have to accept reality that he is only back up and won't be starting next season.

Kelly well his inexperience is now truely exposed in defence but again he is a Rookie!! Whatever the reason was to start him this season is know to management but lower grade is where he should be for now. BUT Parker is out so we have to play him.

Lane and Winterstein, Sironen incl aren't the second rowers that will win us a premiership. This comes with cap pressure and other players not on the market so we have to wait until this changes.

Api - honeslty after last yr i thought here we go but he has been this yrs biggest improver and it's no surprise that our attacking improvement has coincided with this. Put him in Top Shelf. He would benefit with an interchange spell as he does a lot of work in both attack and defence.

Lawrence- has been good for us and is leaving next season so will bring joy to some on here but his enthusiasm/pride for our jersey is only matched by Jake and money can't buy that.

At this stage of the season to be dropping games like the last 2 weeks is not what you should be doing but compared to last season a lot said we wouldn't improve much either. Looking at the squad through Manly eyes you would say we are a top 8 team but we are short on some experience and finals hardened players to lead the way when things go against you.

This team has given us a lot to be happy about and angry also but we have improved more than i thought we were going to.

Lets hope this patched up team gets into the finals albeit as a punching bag as it's all experience especially for our young players that haven't had played finals footy yet.


We have made it a lot harder than it should be and we should be in the finals already but we can still control our destiny.
 
I hope we atleast look for a quality hooker... Korisau isnt bad, but his type of hooker never has long term success..
Look at the better hookers of the last 10 years.. Smith, friend,ballin,ennis, lesser extent McCollough and peats, all similar in what they bring to the table... Solid workhorse types that can kick... But mostly know their job and control the the forwards...
I dont like the livewire type 9s, sure they have a year or 2 of success but nothing compared to the blokes i just mentiones... The korisau,hodges,segearo,lichaa, luke style players.. All livewires, all love the individual stuff, the constant shoot from dummy to do their own thing style of hooker, each has had a stellar year or two, but name one that has been anywhere close to as consistant or dominant as the workhorse type...
At worst we need a lestrange type for the bench

Peats is a much over rated hooker imho his passes are terrible, his tackling is not bad but not as good as Api
 
I guess we all see different things @anthonyb1965
I see a clean out on the way .
I don't see us improving without an injection of more solid , top shelf ,promising and up and coming players . Quality players are consistent performers . We cant rely on players that need a rest or have one good game here and there
as these type of players will not get us anywhere
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It's about time we had a clean out.

This club is starting to recruit like we did in the 70's and 80's - but on steroids. Big difference nowadays is BOZO is absolutely no ARKO.
 
Billy Slater & Darius Boyd are off contract at the end of the season ... one of them & TT to centres? :think:
 
Mmmm i'm sorry but theses elements of your list suggest otherwise...............

Top shelf Players
Walker

Solid
Brenton Lawrence
Blake Green
Darcy Lussick

Promising/Up and coming

Jackson Hastings
Shaun Lane
Brian Kelly
Based on your thoughts....would you have agreed with anthonyb 4 weeks ago when the team was playing well & in 3rd position?? It seems that no matter who plays for Manly there are always those that will find any excuse to bag the team & players.
 

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