News: Api Koroisau contract situation

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16 points against 12 men...hardly anything to crow about.

Just on this point:

We have had a few players binned this year for pretty dud reasons, but I am pretty sure in that time we have scored more points than we have conceded.

If the Warriors lost that match because they conceded 22 points in 10 minutes with 12 men on the field, I would not have been too sympathetic.
 
Our problem was that we continually tried to spin the ball wide and run the big warriors forwards around when we should have been belting it up the middle and letting Api, Fainu and Turbo run on the back of it. We obviously had a game plan for dry weather footy and didn't change that when the rain belted down. I blame Des

If your pigs get beat, then your backs are obsolete........
 
Blaming Api who passes almost instantly to a very flat tired not timing his run Jake is really sticking up for "the local product" to new levels here. Jake was the only real go forward option putting his hand up and placed too much pressure on the dummy half with a lack of depth.(yes it doesn't mean Api has to pass the ball but at that time of the game he shouldn't have to be second guessing a pass)

Api makes the tackle before the final play the ball and is at marker, Tom is to the left and once again on the try-line doesn't react fast, is too far forward at the play the ball to assist the marker in a tackle on the line and doesn't get down low enough to assist in the tackle also, yet that fails to get a mention when it is a common occurrence.

Api's game was no worse than any other in the team, made a nice incisive run and per minute makes more tackles than most. I'm sure Api easily does Fainu in this department(by a large margin) but to be fair on Fainu some games it is easier to rack up tackles in the first 20-25mins or less tackles coming on during a period we are attacking more.(plus playing time with an interchange a player can play at a higher intensity but to be honest i am stretching the analysis to give Fainu the benefit of the doubt)

Api is two weeks returning from injury and even though he is blowing hard and lacks match fitness after 15mins is still playing at a defensive intensity and output much higher than Fainu.

Saying Fainu would make a difference in the red zone is laughable,(especially in the opening 20-25 with less fatigue around) he may have made a difference further back off a quick play the ball a short run, engaging the markers, staying on his feet and offering a beautiful offload but not much more.
 
Laughable that Fainu is more threatening in the red zone lol. TC at his best with this one

Your agenda is laughable

80 percent of our points come with Fsinu on the field. Fainu has scored half a dozen tries.When was APIs last try or try assist ? I can’t remember one this year but he did score 1. And you say it’s laughable Fainu might make a difference in the red zone.
Fsinus offloads have created so many try scoring opportunities in the red zone, especially for Tommy.Do you even watch the actual games.??? You can’t be watching

Apis figures for year
1 try
1 offload
2 ine breaks
0 try assists

Yep he’s a real killer in the red zone or anywhere in attack. API is a defender and inspires with that. Players love playing with him.

Fainu has 5 tries emanating from the red zone and 34 offloads! API has one try and one offload all year! Fainu has hree times as many linebreaks and twice as many tackle busts.His stats are right up there with the very elite attacking hookers. API Is at the very bottom of attacking stats.

API is a very valuable member of the side in other ways but to suggest Fsinu is not a bigger threat in the red zone in attack regardless of when he plays during the game is absolute rubbish and another feeble agenda driven observation.
 
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Just on this point:

We have had a few players binned this year for pretty dud reasons, but I am pretty sure in that time we have scored more points than we have conceded.

If the Warriors lost that match because they conceded 22 points in 10 minutes with 12 men on the field, I would not have been too sympathetic.
I take your point but it might be comparing apples and oranges; so many variables.

I thought the Blair binning was tough. If it happened to a Manly player, I think we’d be crying poor at the refs. We didn’t deserve to win the other night regardless of our little come back.
 
Laughable that Fainu is more threatening in the red one lol. TC at his best with this one

Your agenda is laughable

80 percent of our points come with Fsinu on the field. Fainu has scored half a dozen tries.When was APIs last try or try assist ? I can’t remember one this year but he did score 1. And you say it’s laughable he might make a difference in the red zone.
Fsinus offloads have created so many try scoring opportunities in the red zone, especially Tommy.Do you even watch the actual games.??? You can’t be watching

Apis figures for year
1 try
1 offload
2 ine breaks
0 try assists

Yep he’s a real killer in the red zone or anywhere in attack. API is a defender and inspires with that. Players love playing with him.

Fainu has 5 tries emanating from the red zone and 34 offloads! API has one try and one offload all year! Fainu has hree times as many linebreaks and twice as many tackle busts.His stats are right up there with the very elite attacking hookers. API Is at the very bottom of attacking stats. The only laugh is on you.

API is a very valuable member of the side in other ways but to suggest Fsinu is not a bigger threat in the red zone in attack regardless of when he plays during the game is absolute rubbish and another feeble agenda driven observation.

If TC makes a post nowadays containing long or multiple paragraphs then I just skip reading the post altogether because you know it’s going to be full of bull****.
 
I take your point but it might be comparing apples and oranges; so many variables.

I thought the Blair binning was tough. If it happened to a Manly player, I think we’d be crying poor at the refs. We didn’t deserve to win the other night regardless of our little come back.

I agree
Warriors were better than us simply as that, we were pretty terrible though I thought.
 
Laughable that Fainu is more threatening in the red one lol. TC at his best with this one

Your agenda is laughable

80 percent of our points come with Fsinu on the field. Fainu has scored half a dozen tries.When was APIs last try or try assist ? I can’t remember one this year but he did score 1. And you say it’s laughable he might make a difference in the red zone.
Fsinus offloads have created so many try scoring opportunities in the red zone, especially Tommy.Do you even watch the actual games.??? You can’t be watching

Apis figures for year
1 try
1 offload
2 ine breaks
0 try assists

Yep he’s a real killer in the red zone or anywhere in attack. API is a defender and inspires with that. Players love playing with him.

Fainu has 5 tries emanating from the red zone and 34 offloads! API has one try and one offload all year! Fainu has hree times as many linebreaks and twice as many tackle busts.His stats are right up there with the very elite attacking hookers. API Is at the very bottom of attacking stats. The only laugh is on you.

API is a very valuable member of the side in other ways but to suggest Fsinu is not a bigger threat in the red zone in attack regardless of when he plays during the game is absolute rubbish and another feeble agenda driven observation.
How many games has Api played this year compared to Fainu,
Api plays the opening exchanges doing more tackles at a far higher intensity and against fresh defensive lines.

I'm not saying Fainu in a general attacking sense is not more dangerous "in some instances" but it is over exaggerated about his impact when you take all things into consideration.

Do i think Fainu has more points in him than Api = yes
Do i think Fainu if he started and played the opening 25-30mins would of made a difference in this game regarding points scored = No

The redzone attack we had on a slow wet day consisted of slower play the balls and not working off fast play the balls rolling forward off previous tackles to take advantage of which Fainu is good at. (engages the markers and defence in a unique way and being able to offload)

Just linking to stats and not analyzing them further is very lazy Sue.

Fainu is a good mid level contract(under $400,000) player for the near future who will absorb less of the cap allowing for the purchase of or retaining of another half decent youngish hooker.

Fainu can only command top tier pay if his defensive intensity and work rate improves and adds more elements to his attacking arsenal beyond what good things Fainu has shown now.(Directing attack with footy IQ beyond taking advantage of opportunities after a quick play the ball, kicking, leadership, defensive intensity+work rate and making strong tackles not just absorbing the runner and waiting)
 
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When my son was 6 years old and playing his first year of football ... he thought the same as you .... but when he grew up and started playing u/7's he realised it was a team sport that went for 50 mins and to blame one error or team mate for losing a game was childish, asinine and simply wrong headed ...

PSS .... Asinine extremely stupid or foolish.
"Lydia ignored his asinine remark"
synonyms: stupid, foolish, pointless, brainless, mindless, senseless, doltish, idiotic, imbecilic, imbecile, insane, lunatic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, preposterous, nonsensical, fatuous, silly, childish, infantile, puerile, immature, juvenile, inane, witless, half-baked, empty-headed, unintelligent, half-witted, slow-witted, weak-minded
That just reminded me of Chevy Chase going off in Christmas vacation.
 
I like what Api brings and his energy in shoring up the middle is big early in the contest, but Fainu gives that strike and not sure about the posts feeling he can't tackle well....very solid defensively.
Just on who to blame for that pass (which I 100%agree with Sue) may have been costly, but only 1 small factor in relation to an 80 minute game which they pretty much owned.
Truth is, Api has this habit in general due to picking up the ball and not getting out quick enough, making these flat passes a common theme, off the ground there was plenty of time, as Api does not have the zip of Fainu who can get outside the marker and bring his team mate onto the ball from a further point, helping the support not over run the ball.
Keep in mind also, there was a lot of times players got the ball stationary due to the extra time it took to play the ball and the players often mistimed the run throughout the game.
Plenty learned from this game and if there is such thing as a good loss, this could turn out to be it to prepare for finals footy where the refs could well keep the whistles in the pockets and overcoming adversity and finding other ways to combat spoiling tactics is vital.
 
I like what Api brings and his energy in shoring up the middle is big early in the contest, but Fainu gives that strike and not sure about the posts feeling he can't tackle well....very solid defensively.
Just on who to blame for that pass (which I 100%agree with Sue) may have been costly, but only 1 small factor in relation to an 80 minute game which they pretty much owned.
Truth is, Api has this habit in general due to picking up the ball and not getting out quick enough, making these flat passes a common theme, off the ground there was plenty of time, as Api does not have the zip of Fainu who can get outside the marker and bring his team mate onto the ball from a further point, helping the support not over run the ball.
Keep in mind also, there was a lot of times players got the ball stationary due to the extra time it took to play the ball and the players often mistimed the run throughout the game.
Plenty learned from this game and if there is such thing as a good loss, this could turn out to be it to prepare for finals footy where the refs could well keep the whistles in the pockets and overcoming adversity and finding other ways to combat spoiling tactics is vital.

Fainus defence is fine. It’s another myth.On three or four occasions this year he has made the saving play chasing back so there is nothing wrong with his desperation and effort.
API has missed 34 from 458 , Manase 31 from 492. API tries to hit harder so misses a few more.
Both are good defenders with API having an edge in this area with his energy and uncanny ability to force an error on big men with his technique.

Manase has 150 runs to 82 and has racked up
1357 metres to APIs 682. Manase generally plays a few extra minutes and has had two or three extra games but this shows Manase is way more active out of dummy half.

In not a big one for stats usually but these basic stats and the ones in my original post comprehensively show in every department what we all know and see with our eyes each week.

Fainu is an elite standard offensive hooker and a good defender while API is the hardest hitting and most aggressive hooker defensively in the comp, lacks variety in attack but adds significantly to the team with the intangibles that don’t find the stat sheet.

It’s pretty damn obvious to anyone who just simply watches the game with their eyes open.
 
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Fainus defence is fine. It’s another myth.On three or four occasions this year he has made the saving play chasing back so there is nothing wrong with his desperation and effort.
API has missed 34 from 458 , Manase 31 from 492. API tries to hit harder so misses a few more.
Both are good defenders with API having an edge in this area with his energy and uncanny ability to force an error on big men with his technique.

Manase has 150 runs to 82 and has racked up
1357 metres to APIs 682. Manase generally plays a few extra minutes and has had two or three extra games but this shows Manase is way more active out of dummy half.

In not a big one for stats usually but these basic stats and the ones in my original post comprehensively show in every department what we all know and see with our eyes each week.

Fainu is an elite standard offensive hooker and a good defender while API is the hardest hitting and most aggressive hooker defensively in the comp, lacks variety in attack but adds significantly to the team with the intangibles that don’t find the stat sheet.

It’s pretty damn obvious to anyone who just simply watches the game with their eyes open.
Nice post Sue. Shows that Fainu isn't as bad as TC makes him out to be. And it's not just the stats that show this. We can see it every week by the way he plays the game.

I was also surprised at how long it took Des to bring on Fainu. When Manly were camped on their tryline, I was thinking how much of a difference Fainu would have made if he had been out there. He's shown that he can play for the full 80 miinutes so why play Api at all?
 
Api is a great player and if we lose him I doubt very much we will have to pay any freight. The salary cap for most clubs is a real issue meaning that sometimes good players have to be let go. I will be sorry to see him go.
 
Fainus defence is fine. It’s another myth.On three or four occasions this year he has made the saving play chasing back so there is nothing wrong with his desperation and effort.
API has missed 34 from 458 , Manase 31 from 492.

Manase has 150 runs to 82 and has racked up
1357 metres to APIs 682. Manase generally plays a few extra minutes and has had two or three extra games but this shows Manase is way more active out of dummy half.
.

You’ve got to look harder at these stats! They are just numbers!!

Defensively, Api has tackled more guys with big hair than Fainu, so statistically, his worth to Hair Dressers can_not be understated!! Fainu’s stats point to him preferring to tackle short haired guys more often, which means that smart coaches like Belyache will eventually cotton on to the fact that they can nullify his defensive efforts later in the season with a simple haircut ban @:D@:D

150 runs v 82, and roughly double the meters?? Means nothing unless you take windspeed, direction, relative altitude, humidity and the psi level of the balls used!!

NOTHING I SAY!!!

I mean.. if he’s running with the a plus 2m/s wind, with a ball with 2psi extra in it, on a humid day, downhill with the sun over his left shoulder.. he’s always gunna make more yards. It’s simple statistics one would think!!

;)@:p
 
If TC makes a post nowadays containing long or multiple paragraphs then I just skip reading the post altogether because you know it’s going to be full of bull****.
Seems you don't rate all that highly the ability of people here to make up their own minds on this subject or you need others to validate your views for a short term high.
Reminding me you don't rate my dribble is all good though, helpful hint Dan has provided you a function below each post to do just that, might help open up more time in your day using this function more.
 
Geez theres a lot of hate on this thread. Some may call it passion but I'm not so sure.

I will add 2 cents worth.

From year one of Male Model taking over as coach I made 2 observations.

1. Male model was not a good coach
2. Api while having heart was not good enough

Now as we are on an Api thread I shall just forget point 1.

I'm the first to admit Api has heart, is a great defender and tries his arse off most weeks. Yes there are moments where he plays a blinder but those moments are too far apart to be a premiership winning hooker (I know he won with the bunnies but that was Luke's year day in day out. They wouldn't have made it with Api as first choice)....

Thing is his pass distribution is really poor even non first grade at times. Most passes are behind the attacking line or even worse looped into the air taking away valuable attacking flow.

The 1 2 punch of Api and Manese worked well at the beginning of the season when Manese wasnt ready for 80 min. Thing is hes ready now and our game is so much better with the kid at 9. It flows and his partnership with turbo is something special.

Is it just coincidental that the last 2 matches tommy has been a bit off Api has started? I dont think so. The really top teams have 1 hooker who the rest of the team know what their getting all match. With us we have a poor passing yet nail tough guy starting and a dynamic runner and great passer coming on to fire up the side.

Sorry to the Api lovers but he has to go and will. Hes not good enough for a top side. His passing game is lax and misdirected which is why we stutter in attack. Good luck at your next side...
 
You’ve got to look harder at these stats! They are just numbers!!

Defensively, Api has tackled more guys with big hair than Fainu, so statistically, his worth to Hair Dressers can_not be understated!! Fainu’s stats point to him preferring to tackle short haired guys more often, which means that smart coaches like Belyache will eventually cotton on to the fact that they can nullify his defensive efforts later in the season with a simple haircut ban @:D@:D

150 runs v 82, and roughly double the meters?? Means nothing unless you take windspeed, direction, relative altitude, humidity and the psi level of the balls used!!

NOTHING I SAY!!!

I mean.. if he’s running with the a plus 2m/s wind, with a ball with 2psi extra in it, on a humid day, downhill with the sun over his left shoulder.. he’s always gunna make more yards. It’s simple statistics one would think!!

;)@:p
People here seem to think i rate Api more highly than i actually do, Api has his limitations that are obvious, the point i am making is Fainu is not as good as people are making out (at the moment and might not ever reach the heights people expect here) and getting ahead of themselves.

In a wet game like Friday where the Warriors slowed down the play the ball and read all our plays really well Fainu would make little difference in the opening 20-25 mins as he rarely does much creative work out of dummy half in this period. (like most hookers but in varying degrees), if anything a fit Api with his crazy ducking under tacklers arms that sometimes works and sometimes is worthy of a hit to the head probably offered more chance of an opportunity under such conditions and he showed a glimpse in that game.

Both hookers passing from dummy half is not all that creative or crisp at all and not something that really opens up(meaning defences just can't expect short simple passes to the obvious short spaced leading runner) or second guesses defensive lines like a Cam Smith, Ballin, Buderus type.(referring to the quality and variety of passing they offer from dummy half as examples)

Des obviously feels the same way that Fainu is more dangerous after the opening exchanges and wants to save the more attacking hooker option for when it can shine more. On top of that Api's high work rate will ease the workload in defence of others in the middle along with staying switched on and closing up gaps.

The way fans here are giving "too much praise" for a hooker that really only excels in one department and is adequate to poor in defence is what i am addressing. If you think his weakness in defence and work rate are a myth you can have this view and i will have mine but you really don't back up your views other than showing stats at face value and not looking into them.

Api does more tackles per minute of game time than Fainu, and does so at greater intensity, even taking into account the faster opening exchanges offering an opportunity to pad up stats a little more compared to later in the game if Manly are dominating more in attack.

Looking at stats like tackle efficiency or missed tackles even tackles made and taking them on face value is really asking for trouble in the way you view a players qualities.

No point making 40 tackles a game of third man ins, not moving forward to chop down a player, no line speed to lead the defensive line, no sprinting out to put pressure on the hooker, not proactive on the inside and switching off, etc etc on top of forwards having to work harder in either supporting a weak defender or making more tackles in general.

You might create double the assists per season and nullify those gains with not being up to par in defence.

Take it this way i would take a lower assist/ low attacking output hooker with crisp ball delivery from dummy half that has variety with great defensive workload qualities and intensity over a high assist, high attacking output hooker with adequate to poor defence any day of the week.(even though speed around marker is required more these days than the not too distant past)

Now if the NRL (and i hope they don't go down this path) go down to six interchanges and focus on speeding up the play the ball then a hooker who can take advantage of touch football play the balls with adequate defence(more fatigue in forwards throughout the game will not expose weak defenders as often with lower impact tackles made) and a good motor to not put pressure on the interchange is required.
 
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