more COVID discussion

[SeaEagleRock8]

If it helps to put your mind to rest, two recent studies ( one in the US and one in Spain) have put the death rate from Covid at about 0.68 percent. 6.8 people in every 1000 who catch it die. This is about twice the rate of the seasonal flue

Just take sensible precautions and you should be fine.

I hope this isn't overly insensitive but did her friend have co-morbidities? I'm not trying to pound any drum but

people have been found to be Covid positive after dying of other causes. They still get counted as Covid deaths.

They were still counted as Covid deaths. I think we can safely assume that Covid deaths aren't undercounted.

Are you sure you aren't pounding a drum? Seems you are trying to minimise the seriousness of the virus?

By the way, worldwide there have been 245 million cases and 4.98 million deaths, so of each 100 who catch it more than 2 died.

The rates vary - eg Israel has a low death rate - and treatments hopefully will continue to improve. However there are certainly parts of the world where covid deaths have not all been recorded and parts of the world with very low vaccination rates so further dangerous mutations are entirely possible.

As for people dying of other causes being counted as covid deaths - no. WHO has clear reporting protocols which Australia and most countries follow:

Definition of deaths due to COVID 19 
A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death. 
A death due to COVID-19 may not be attributed to another disease (e.g. cancer) and should be counted independently of pre-existing conditions that are suspected of triggering a severe course of COVID-19. 
Deaths due to COVID-19 are the ones that are counted in cause of death data collection (for the purposes of COVID-19 death reporting).
NOTE: Deaths due to COVID-19 are different from COVID-19-related (or COVID-19–associated) deaths. These may be deaths due to accidental or incidental causes, or natural causes when COVID-19 is not identified as the underlying cause of death according to ICD coding guidance (see Section 4.2)
Guidance for certifying COVID-19 as a cause of death: In view of the need for accurate COVID-19 statistics, it is important to record and report deaths due to COVID-19 in a uniform way.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Anyone who dies with covid, or after having covid in the last 30 days is attributed as a covid death. That is a fact, and easy to check if a person is interested in doing so. It's why so many deaths are reported as - "five people have died with covid overnight." As opposed to - "five people have died from covid." You will hear it tomorrow if you want to listen.

I'm not a covid denier or an anti vax merchant. I've had my first shot and it will either work or it won't. But that doesn't mean I'm swallowing the narrative being pushed hook, line and sinker. There should always be room for discussion, irrespective of whether the subject invokes strong emotional responses.

I hope your son is doing well.

Am I missing something?
This IS a discussion and it is pretty calm and civil.....people are putting their views and opinions across.
Thanks,my son is fine now and is an irresistible force of nature.
As I have stated,vaccination is not going to get rid of the virus,it is about making sure our health systems don't collapse due to increased people needing medical help,particularly if there is something the general population can do to help.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Am I missing something?
This IS a discussion and it is pretty calm and civil.....people are putting their views and opinions across.
Thanks,my son is fine now and is an irresistible force of nature.
As I have stated,vaccination is not going to get rid of the virus,it is about making sure our health systems don't collapse due to increased people needing medical help,particularly if there is something the general population can do to help.

That’s the absolute number 1 reason FULLSTOP!!

 

[Woodsie]

My 2 year old contracted pneumonia in June(3 trips to the ER before diagnosed correctly),it was enough of a nightmare without having to have extra people taking up ambulances and doctors and beds and the extra medical staff off due to being isolated because of exposure etc.....He would have been at extra risk if he had contracted covid whilst at the hospital from numpties who are there being treated for covid and exposing the medicos to it.

Hope your little one made a full recovery mate .. can't imagine going through the pain of seeing your child that sick ...

 

[Woodsie]

What is being understated in this pleasant discussion ... is the impact that the passing of time will have on all the plans of mice and men ... cancelling your star players contract in Feb ... only to see ALL Covid restrictions lifted in April because of a 95% vax rate ...

 

[Cioran]

Are you sure you aren't pounding a drum? Seems you are trying to minimise the seriousness of the virus?

By the way, worldwide there have been 245 million cases and 4.98 million deaths, so of each 100 who catch it more than 2 died.

The rates vary - eg Israel has a low death rate - and treatments hopefully will continue to improve. However there are certainly parts of the world where covid deaths have not all been recorded and parts of the world with very low vaccination rates so further dangerous mutations are entirely possible.

As for people dying of other causes being counted as covid deaths - no. WHO has clear reporting protocols which Australia and most countries follow:

Definition of deaths due to COVID 19 
A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death. 
A death due to COVID-19 may not be attributed to another disease (e.g. cancer) and should be counted independently of pre-existing conditions that are suspected of triggering a severe course of COVID-19. 
Deaths due to COVID-19 are the ones that are counted in cause of death data collection (for the purposes of COVID-19 death reporting).
NOTE: Deaths due to COVID-19 are different from COVID-19-related (or COVID-19–associated) deaths. These may be deaths due to accidental or incidental causes, or natural causes when COVID-19 is not identified as the underlying cause of death according to ICD coding guidance (see Section 4.2)
Guidance for certifying COVID-19 as a cause of death: In view of the need for accurate COVID-19 statistics, it is important to record and report deaths due to COVID-19 in a uniform way.

Let's see if I can get some steam coming out of your ears.

Yes I am beating a drum and I rather hope there's someone out there who will appreciate and think about the rhythm.

I don't care about Covid deaths. The disease simply doesn't kill enough people to have a significant impact on society and the people who it does kill are largely evolutionarily and economically unimportant. If this was the black death, small pox, cholera, Ebola, the Spanish flue, MERS, SARS, typhoid, malaria etc than the death rate would be sufficient to disrupt society. Covid won't do that. Scomo claimed that if we hadn't acted to stamp out Covid we may have had 30 thousand deaths in 2020. If that had happened the number of Australians who died in 2020 would have been similar to the number who died in 2019. Not significant to society. In the first 18 months of Covid 4 million people died of the disease. In the same period 7.5 million children under 5 died in the third world because they didn't have adequate food, clean water, or access to medical care. I suspect the annual death of 5 million babies in developing countries doesn't keep you awake at night. 20 million people in East Africa face starvation due to a locust infestation partly caused by global warming and exacerbated by a lack of insectacide. I'm guessing this isn't keeping you awake either. I know it doesn't keep me awake. It's terrible but inconsequential to our society.

A few million deaths aren't important. What's important is society. Society provides the support and framework that enables the human race to continue and prosper. This human race includes generations of your decendants who will live and die long after you're gone. Your grand parents and great grandparents understood this and they sacrificed 100s of millions of lives in bloody wars to protect their society, sovereignty and the futures of their children. Now we're sacrificing the society they fought for to extend a handful of lives.

When this disease first emerged I wrote that it reminded me of hoof and mouth disease. It's not the disease that kills every animal in 200 miles, it's our response to the disease.

I'm watching our society, economy, community, international relationships, and political structures being demolished and reshaped in response to a pretty ineffectual pandemic and I find it fascinating and more than a bit scary. It's the biggest and most significant even of the past 100 years and I'd like to be able to discuss it, study it, and come to some understanding of all its ramifications and of how we got into this mess.

Stay safe and keep posting. You always have good input on football and social issues.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

What is being understated in this pleasant discussion ... is the impact that the passing of time will have on all the plans of mice and men ... cancelling your star players contract in Feb ... only to see ALL Covid restrictions lifted in April because of a 95% vax rate ...

Do you think we’ll get to 95%??

NSW will , as will VIC, but unless we get the mother of all outbreaks up here I reckon less than 80% will pull us up.

And don’t even think about WA ( although they want to leave and form their own country).

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Let's see if I can get some steam coming out of your ears.

Yes I am beating a drum and I rather hope there's someone out there who will appreciate and think about the rhythm.

I don't care about Covid deaths. The disease simply doesn't kill enough people to have a significant impact on society and the people who it does kill are largely evolutionarily and economically unimportant. If this was the black death, small pox, cholera, Ebola, the Spanish flue, MERS, SARS, typhoid, malaria etc than the death rate would be sufficient to disrupt society. Covid won't do that. Scomo claimed that if we hadn't acted to stamp out Covid we may have had 30 thousand deaths in 2020. If that had happened the number of Australians who died in 2020 would have been similar to the number who died in 2019. Not significant to society. In the first 18 months of Covid 4 million people died of the disease. In the same period 7.5 million children under 5 died in the third world because they didn't have adequate food, clean water, or access to medical care. I suspect the annual death of 5 million babies in developing countries doesn't keep you awake at night. 20 million people in East Africa face starvation due to a locust infestation partly caused by global warming and exacerbated by a lack of insectacide. I'm guessing this isn't keeping you awake either. I know it doesn't keep me awake. It's terrible but inconsequential to our society.

A few million deaths aren't important. What's important is society. Society provides the support and framework that enables the human race to continue and prosper. This human race includes generations of your decendants who will live and die long after you're gone. Your grand parents and great grandparents understood this and they sacrificed 100s of millions of lives in bloody wars to protect their society, sovereignty and the futures of their children. Now we're sacrificing the society they fought for to extend a handful of lives.

When this disease first emerged I wrote that it reminded me of hoof and mouth disease. It's not the disease that kills every animal in 200 miles, it's our response to the disease.

I'm watching our society, economy, community, international relationships, and political structures being demolished and reshaped in response to a pretty ineffectual pandemic and I find it fascinating and more than a bit scary. It's the biggest and most significant even of the past 100 years and I'd like to be able to discuss it, study it, and come to some understanding of all its ramifications and of how we got into this mess.

Stay safe and keep posting. You always have good input on football and social issues.

What is scary is the power that’s been handed to these state premiers , they literally decide on a whim what our lives can be like.

 

[BOZO]

Am I missing something?
This IS a discussion and it is pretty calm and civil.....people are putting their views and opinions across.
Thanks,my son is fine now and is an irresistible force of nature.
As I have stated,vaccination is not going to get rid of the virus,it is about making sure our health systems don't collapse due to increased people needing medical help,particularly if there is something the general population can do to help.

Good news your little one is fine feathered friend

 

[Cioran]

What is scary is the power that’s been handed to these state premiers , they literally decide on a whim what our lives can be like.

There's a new professional political class who no longer represent their constituents they rule them. It all started with the development of the party political system which circumvented democracy and put the country into the hands of just a few individuals. Those individuals passed the power to their children and proteges and the new ruling class was born. The ruling class has a powerful new weapon with which they can control people. All in the name of keeping us safe. "It's all for your own good".

What's particularly scary is that our kings and queens can be purchased for depressingly small amounts of money. One was bought recently by people unknown for a million dollars. When the prime minister was 'made aware of this' the prime minister's immediately responce was to cover it up. Worrying eh?

 

[Smokin Joe]

Hope your little one made a full recovery mate .. can't imagine going through the pain of seeing your child that sick ...

Cheers,3 weeks of stress...I can remember the exact moment when we realized the fever/pain had broken and it was like the weight of the world had lifted(even though he was not out of the woods at that point).
Of course if he had contracted the virus from being in hospital and exposed to it and then died it would not have mattered to some as long as their freedoms are not being affected.

 

[Smokin Joe]

There's a new professional political class who no longer represent their constituents they rule them. It all started with the development of the party political system which circumvented democracy and put the country into the hands of just a few individuals. Those individuals passed the power to their children and proteges and the new ruling class was born. The ruling class has a powerful new weapon with which they can control people. All in the name of keeping us safe. "It's all for your own good".

What's particularly scary is that our kings and queens can be purchased for depressingly small amounts of money. One was bought recently by people unknown for a million dollars. When the prime minister was 'made aware of this' the prime minister's immediately responce was to cover it up. Worrying eh?

Democracy is a nice ideal,but it has always been corrupt.The rich and powerful have always ruled and influenced and society has been in decline for a long time.(it is the same no matter what form of government/political/ruling system is in place in any country)
Maybe if people and our pollies had pulled their fingers out and gotten vaxed earlier instead of thinking that we were ok and did not care we might be able to get back to whatever normal is now.
I respect your view of how freedoms may have been lost,but to take your example....it does not keep me awake at night because it does not affect me or my family,I have not lost any freedoms from the pandemic.

 

[Kevinward777]

Am I missing something?
This IS a discussion and it is pretty calm and civil.....people are putting their views and opinions across.
Thanks,my son is fine now and is an irresistible force of nature.
As I have stated,vaccination is not going to get rid of the virus,it is about making sure our health systems don't collapse due to increased people needing medical help, mainly if there is something the general population can do to help.

No, you aren't missing something. My inference regarding people having a platform to speak had nothing to do with this thread. However, the mainstream media and many other social platforms don't allow a counter-narrative to get air time. Well, they do, but only when it paints a person as a tinfoil hat-wearing, flat earther who believes reptiles control the earth. This thread is an exception to the shut the @#$% up sentiment, delivered in in the kind of blinding mockery that many favour.

Glad your son is well.

 

[Kevinward777]

Let's see if I can get some steam coming out of your ears.

Yes I am beating a drum and I rather hope there's someone out there who will appreciate and think about the rhythm.

I don't care about Covid deaths. The disease simply doesn't kill enough people to have a significant impact on society and the people who it does kill are largely evolutionarily and economically unimportant. If this was the black death, small pox, cholera, Ebola, the Spanish flue, MERS, SARS, typhoid, malaria etc than the death rate would be sufficient to disrupt society. Covid won't do that. Scomo claimed that if we hadn't acted to stamp out Covid we may have had 30 thousand deaths in 2020. If that had happened the number of Australians who died in 2020 would have been similar to the number who died in 2019. Not significant to society. In the first 18 months of Covid 4 million people died of the disease. In the same period 7.5 million children under 5 died in the third world because they didn't have adequate food, clean water, or access to medical care. I suspect the annual death of 5 million babies in developing countries doesn't keep you awake at night. 20 million people in East Africa face starvation due to a locust infestation partly caused by global warming and exacerbated by a lack of insectacide. I'm guessing this isn't keeping you awake either. I know it doesn't keep me awake. It's terrible but inconsequential to our society.

A few million deaths aren't important. What's important is society. Society provides the support and framework that enables the human race to continue and prosper. This human race includes generations of your decendants who will live and die long after you're gone. Your grand parents and great grandparents understood this and they sacrificed 100s of millions of lives in bloody wars to protect their society, sovereignty and the futures of their children. Now we're sacrificing the society they fought for to extend a handful of lives.

When this disease first emerged I wrote that it reminded me of hoof and mouth disease. It's not the disease that kills every animal in 200 miles, it's our response to the disease.

I'm watching our society, economy, community, international relationships, and political structures being demolished and reshaped in response to a pretty ineffectual pandemic and I find it fascinating and more than a bit scary. It's the biggest and most significant even of the past 100 years and I'd like to be able to discuss it, study it, and come to some understanding of all its ramifications and of how we got into this mess.

Stay safe and keep posting. You always have good input on football and social issues.

This is a brilliant summary - great work. You have a beautiful thinking mind.

 

[Cioran]

Democracy is a nice ideal,but it has always been corrupt.The rich and powerful have always ruled and influenced and society has been in decline for a long time.(it is the same no matter what form of government/political/ruling system is in place in any country)
Maybe if people and our pollies had pulled their fingers out and gotten vaxed earlier instead of thinking that we were ok and did not care we might be able to get back to whatever normal is now.
I respect your view of how freedoms may have been lost,but to take your example....it does not keep me awake at night because it does not affect me or my family,I have not lost any freedoms from the pandemic.

Your confusing me with a Qanon luny when I'm really just a garden variety luny. Personal liberty is just a tiny part of what I'm blathering about. Remember that millions of people who died in WW2 were fighting for national socialism or for communism. Social systems that traditionally don't list personal freedom high on their list of priorities. I'm much more worried about the long term damage being done to the economy, society and the political system. I can see some advantages in a heavily regulated society providing the dictator is truly benevolent. I'd probably nominate Ellen Johnson Serleaf as the last one of those I observed. I note her successor is some what less caring.

As for your little boy, I'm genuinely glad he's doing well and I'd be deeply saddened if he died. It would be hypocritical to say I'd be heart broken (I don't know him that well) but I would be deeply sad for you and your loss. However, to quote Carrot, personal isn't the same as important.

 

[Cioran]

This is a brilliant summary - great work. You have a beautiful thinking mind.

You made me blush 😎

 

[BOZO]

You made me blush 😎

I hope you are blushing with pride and with our famous maroon colour feathered friend

 

[Cioran]

I hope you are blushing with pride and with our famous maroon colour feathered friend

My heart swells with pride everytime I see our colours 🙂

 

[Woodsie]

Do you think we’ll get to 95%??

NSW will , as will VIC, but unless we get the mother of all outbreaks up here I reckon less than 80% will pull us up.

And don’t even think about WA ( although they want to leave and form their own country).

Could be right .. but at some point in time all restrictions will end .. this year .. next year ..

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

What's important is society. Society provides the support and framework that enables the human race to continue and prosper.

The human race is prospering? Which society is that, exactly?

Well, obviously the dead babies and starvation in Africa you mention are not signs of prospering, so clearly by ‘the human race’ you just mean the important part. The white, privileged part. Fought for by our forebears in bloody wars, but sadly now under threat thanks to weak govts fussing around to protect unimportant lives.

Or did you mean something different?