more COVID discussion

[Smokin Joe]

I'm not sure about the people of Samoan heritage Joe, but I can promise you, some of the most vocal anti vaxxers are of Arabic extraction. It was amazing how many of them had mask exemptions.

All you had to do was listen to the daily updates we used to have.

Every single day they'd read out the list of suburbs, Merrylands, Guildford, Auburn, Punchbowl, Lakemba....Every one with a high Lebanese population. It got so bad, that Arabic doctor (can't recall his name) had to set up the drive through vaccination centre at Belmore Sports Ground.

Yeah,just talking about the footy players in the media...

 

[Smokin Joe]

I'm probably crazy for sticking my head up and I'll start by saying that I am fully vaccinated as are all the members of my family. We all wear masks where required and scan in and display our passports as required. I'm no one's idea of a rebel

BUT

Haven't we got this arse around. Posters on here (and governments) seem to be concerned that they will contract Covid from unvaccinated people but think they're safe around vaccinated people.

Publicly available scientific evidence suggests that vaccination reduces the adverse health impacts of Covid on the vaccinated person but does little to stop that person getting infected or carrying the disease. The only thing that stops you from contracting and carrying Covid is to contract the disease and then recover. A very extensive study in Israel determined that people who recover are 16 times more resistant to Covid than the vaccinated. If you're at the football standing next to a vaccinated person on one side and an unvaccinated person on the other they are both as likely to be carrying the disease. The unvaccinated person is more likely to get sick from it though.

I think it is more about not bringing the health and emergency systems to their knees....(not far off it already listening to some paras.)

 

[Kevinward777]

It won’t work. He won’t be able to be on the field unless vaccinated. You watch, they won’t be able to do much. Theatres in Sydney have said they won’t admit unvaccinated even after 1 December. This is because they feel people won’t attend if there is a possibility unvaxed will be there. Stadia will likely follow.

What I can't understand is why a vaccinated person gives a hoot about someone who is unvaccinated. If the efficacy of the vaccine doesn't protect a person from catching Covid - then wtf are we all getting jabbed for?

The chicken Pox vaccine works, as does the Polio vaccine and the Measles vaccine. They work really well. I think I'm gonna need a couple of glasses of Clayton's to prepare me for my second shot. The vaccine you have when you're not having a vaccine.

 

[Kevinward777]

I thought 90% of Australians over the age of sixteen in NSW are already vaccinated. Surely the vaccine will protect us from the unwashed 10%. Surely.

 

[Shoe1]

What I can't understand is why a vaccinated person gives a hoot about someone who is unvaccinated. If the efficacy of the vaccine doesn't protect a person from catching Covid - then wtf are we all getting jabbed for?

The chicken Pox vaccine works, as does the Polio vaccine and the Measles vaccine. They work really well. I think I'm gonna need a couple of glasses of Clayton's to prepare me for my second shot. The vaccine you have when you're not having a vaccine.

There are a couple of reasons to care.

The vaccine works, but that doesn't mean you can't catch or carry covid. As a vaccinated person, if I work with an unvaccinated person who brings me in contact with the disease, I could then bring the disease home where there are kids under 12 - I probably wouldn't get sick, but they are unprotected because there is no vaccine for them yet.

The other reason is because the health system will be very busy with sick unvaccinated people, already there are reports of people with other medical needs not being able to get treated because of the covid patient numbers. More cancers not being caught early etc.

Minimising the number of carriers in the community is the objective - to protect those who cannot get vaccinated. I know an adult with long term leukemia for example - it is under control but her immune system is poor, and she can't be vaccinated because of that. She is pretty much trapped inside now, but she was able to get out and about pre-covid. I believe this is the case for people with MS and other chronic diseases too.

The list goes on, people with Down's syndrome often have bad respiratory systems, and even mild covid can be deadly for them. Get vaxxed to protect those that can't.

 

[Cioran]

I think it is more about not bringing the health and emergency systems to their knees....(not far off it already listening to some paras.)

That's the argument the English government was pushing and now the Australian governments have taken it up as well. It's a little hard to understand though. Every year a certain number of people die from pneumonia and other severe respiratory ailments, often, brought on from viral infections. It's likely that a significant proportion of these people spend time in intensive care units. The number of people who died of respiratory ailments in 2020 was more than 17,000 fewer than in 2019. The number this year is unlikely to be much higher. If our hospitals coped in 2019 why are they overloaded now. If some one has figures on the total number of people being hospitalised and the total numbers passing through ICU I'm happy to be corrected.

I realise that someone dying of pneumonia after contracting Covid isn't treated in the same way as someone dying of pneumonia after contracting the flu. If someone has figures on the numbers of hours spent treating each Covid patient (including time spent sterilising and changing into PPE) and can compare this to the number of hours spent treating other severe respiratory cases, please share.

 

[Smokin Joe]

That's the argument the English government was pushing and now the Australian governments have taken it up as well. It's a little hard to understand though. Every year a certain number of people die from pneumonia and other severe respiratory ailments, often, brought on from viral infections. It's likely that a significant proportion of these people spend time in intensive care units. The number of people who died of respiratory ailments in 2020 was more than 17,000 fewer than in 2019. The number this year is unlikely to be much higher. If our hospitals coped in 2019 why are they overloaded now. If some one has figures on the total number of people being hospitalised and the total numbers passing through ICU I'm happy to be corrected.

I realise that someone dying of pneumonia after contracting Covid isn't treated in the same way as someone dying of pneumonia after contracting the flu. If someone has figures on the numbers of hours spent treating each Covid patient (including time spent sterilising and changing into PPE) and can compare this to the number of hours spent treating other severe respiratory cases, please share.

My 2 year old contracted pneumonia in June(3 trips to the ER before diagnosed correctly),it was enough of a nightmare without having to have extra people taking up ambulances and doctors and beds and the extra medical staff off due to being isolated because of exposure etc.....He would have been at extra risk if he had contracted covid whilst at the hospital from numpties who are there being treated for covid and exposing the medicos to it.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I'm probably crazy for sticking my head up and I'll start by saying that I am fully vaccinated as are all the members of my family. We all wear masks where required and scan in and display our passports as required. I'm no one's idea of a rebel

BUT

Haven't we got this arse around. Posters on here (and governments) seem to be concerned that they will contract Covid from unvaccinated people but think they're safe around vaccinated people.

Publicly available scientific evidence suggests that vaccination reduces the adverse health impacts of Covid on the vaccinated person but does little to stop that person getting infected or carrying the disease. The only thing that stops you from contracting and carrying Covid is to contract the disease and then recover. A very extensive study in Israel determined that people who recover are 16 times more resistant to Covid than the vaccinated. If you're at the football standing next to a vaccinated person on one side and an unvaccinated person on the other they are both as likely to be carrying the disease. The unvaccinated person is more likely to get sick from it though.

You might be right ( and very probably are ) but what I’ve heard over the time is that “ being vaccinated doesn’t mean you can’t contract the disease only means you won’t die from it, BUT also means you are far less likely to catch and SPREAD the disease as a result of being vaccinated”.

 

[pt73]

The other is issue is regional areas where many only have small hospitals.

The CEO of one in NSW was interviewed this morning and said she was terrified of what could happen once people were allowed to travel regardless of their vax status.

Her small hospital doesn't have any negative pressure rooms which are key to treating COVID patients and keeping other patients and the staff safe.

COVID-19 and Negative Pressure Rooms in Hospitals

When rooms are not properly pressurized (positive pressure rooms or negative pressure rooms), the health of patients and staff are at risk.

www.chthealthcare.com

That means they would have to arrange an airplane to transfer the patient to a hospital that does as road transport takes too long and creates a potential for the paramedic to contract COVID.

 

[Cioran]

My 2 year old contracted pneumonia in June(3 trips to the ER before diagnosed correctly),it was enough of a nightmare without having to have extra people taking up ambulances and doctors and beds and the extra medical staff off due to being isolated because of exposure etc.....He would have been at extra risk if he had contracted covid whilst at the hospital from numpties who are there being treated for covid and exposing the medicos to it.

Must have scarred the sh#t out of you. My daughter had some pretty mild illnesses at about the same age requiring trips to the hospital. It wasn't fun for me but she bounced back like a rubber ball as most 2 year olds seem to. I hope your young fella is on the up now.

If it helps to put your mind to rest, two recent studies ( one in the US and one in Spain) have put the death rate from Covid at about 0.68 percent. 6.8 people in every 1000 who catch it die. This is about twice the rate of the seasonal flue but significantly lower than SARS (10% mortality) and MERS (34% mortality). The death rate for Covid is very much higher for the very old and sick than it is for young children or even healthy adults. Just take sensible precautions and you should be fine.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I thought 90% of Australians over the age of sixteen in NSW are already vaccinated. Surely the vaccine will protect us from the unwashed 10%. Surely.

We are light years behind !!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Must have scarred the sh#t out of you. My daughter had some pretty mild illnesses at about the same age requiring trips to the hospital. It wasn't fun for me but she bounced back like a rubber ball as most 2 year olds seem to. I hope your young fella is on the up now.

If it helps to put your mind to rest, two recent studies ( one in the US and one in Spain) have put the death rate from Covid at about 0.68 percent. 6.8 people in every 1000 who catch it die. This is about twice the rate of the seasonal flue but significantly lower than SARS (10% mortality) and MERS (34% mortality). The death rate for Covid is very much higher for the very old and sick than it is for young children or even healthy adults. Just take sensible precautions and you should be fine.

That is correct the most at risk being the over 70’s BUT my 45 year daughter lost a 45 year old friend ( a Mum of two ) in Melbourne recently so it’s certainly not just us oldies at risk!!

 

[Highflier]

I have noticed that many if not all of the footy players who seem anti-vax and not just talking about the covid vax seem to be of Samoan heritage,I wonder if it is a cultural or religious issue?

maybe SJ, but they don't mind plenty of Tatt's ink and needles and alot of their wives and girlfriends are all botoxed up to the max yet they are concerned about a vaccine that although not crazy on it ,most of us have taken for the greater good of all of us not just ourselves

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

maybe SJ, but they don't mind plenty of Tatt's ink and needles and alot of their wives and girlfriends are all botoxed up to the max yet they are concerned about a vaccine that although not crazy on it ,most of us have taken for the greater good of all of us not just ourselves

I find it terribly hypocritical that they won’t take the vaccine for the good of at least their own families but yeah as you say , load me up with Botox , stick any needle you want in me to give me tattoos, oh and that white substance that I inject through my nose well that’s all good too BUT don’t stick a needle with vaccine in me !!

****ing hypocrites.

 

[Cioran]

That is correct the most at risk being the over 70’s BUT my 45 year daughter lost a 45 year old friend ( a Mum of two ) in Melbourne recently so it’s certainly not just us oldies at risk!!

I hope this isn't overly insensitive but did her friend have co-morbidities? I'm not trying to pound any drum but Covid and our response to Covid is a huge and fascinating subject. I'm trying to come to some understanding of the impacts of the disease and of our responses to the disease (social, economic, political, ethical et al). For example several economists have warned of impending hyperinflation because governments have been printing money in vast quantities, while doctors and scientists are struggling to understand phenomenons like long Covid and vaccine effectiveness, labs are pioneering new types of vaccines, and there's a world wide shortage of aluminium because the Chinese won't buy Australian coal. Just the tip of the iceberg.

I do realise that some otherwise healthy people die of Covid.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

One of the strange things (and perhaps it’s an ongoing part of the ‘dumbing down’ of the populace) about all this is that we all live in a world where smallpox was eradicated years ago (albeit the odd potential outbreak) and polio is almost gone. Imagine if social media had existed from the late 1950s onwards when the work of Salk and Sabin started the process of eradicating polio? The 1960s equivalents of Winterstein’s wife or wannabe Trumpians like Craig Kelly, or Christensen of the Philippines, would be out there spruiking their noxious disinformation - instead of having an audience little bigger than that at the nightly dining table.

Meanwhile these same fools will presumably accept the need to have a driver’s/motorcycle licence and your vehicle must be registered and insured; that they have to stop at a red light; or that they have to vote; that their children must attend school; that they should not litter streets and public places; that they should not defecate or urinate in public. I could go on.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

I hope this isn't overly insensitive but did her friend have co-morbidities? I'm not trying to pound any drum but Covid and our response to Covid is a huge and fascinating subject. I'm trying to come to some understanding of the impacts of the disease and of our responses to the disease (social, economic, political, ethical et al). For example several economists have warned of impending hyperinflation because governments have been printing money in vast quantities, while doctors and scientists are struggling to understand phenomenons like long Covid and vaccine effectiveness, labs are pioneering new types of vaccines, and there's a world wide shortage of aluminium because the Chinese won't buy Australian coal. Just the tip of the iceberg.

I do realise that some otherwise healthy people die of Covid.

Do you mean bauxite rather than metallurgic coal? Or steel rather than aluminium?

 

[Smokin Joe]

Must have scarred the sh#t out of you. My daughter had some pretty mild illnesses at about the same age requiring trips to the hospital. It wasn't fun for me but she bounced back like a rubber ball as most 2 year olds seem to. I hope your young fella is on the up now.

If it helps to put your mind to rest, two recent studies ( one in the US and one in Spain) have put the death rate from Covid at about 0.68 percent. 6.8 people in every 1000 who catch it die. This is about twice the rate of the seasonal flue but significantly lower than SARS (10% mortality) and MERS (34% mortality). The death rate for Covid is very much higher for the very old and sick than it is for young children or even healthy adults. Just take sensible precautions and you should be fine.

Unfortunately the reason viruses survive is mutation,we are already seeing people contracting and having issues at a younger age than first thought.
My wife and I are both double vaccinated and at the 6 month interval will get the booster shot.
I am worried for people who have medical issues that will be at higher risk,I believe the mortality rate for influenza is about 0.1%(I may have misheard).
Anyhow I am more concerned about our health system,I have a friend who is a paramedic and she and her colleagues are at the breaking point when it comes to stress at the moment and that is before opening up.
I have many work colleagues who are vocal anti-vaxers and the best line I have for them is that they can choose to not be vaccinated,but if they or their immediate family contract covid and need emergency help then they can just sit at home and ride it out.If they live so be it,if they die so be it,they have made their choice.....

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I hope this isn't overly insensitive but did her friend have co-morbidities? I'm not trying to pound any drum but Covid and our response to Covid is a huge and fascinating subject. I'm trying to come to some understanding of the impacts of the disease and of our responses to the disease (social, economic, political, ethical et al). For example several economists have warned of impending hyperinflation because governments have been printing money in vast quantities, while doctors and scientists are struggling to understand phenomenons like long Covid and vaccine effectiveness, labs are pioneering new types of vaccines, and there's a world wide shortage of aluminium because the Chinese won't buy Australian coal. Just the tip of the iceberg.

I do realise that some otherwise healthy people die of Covid.

Honestly no idea , reasonably fit and healthy , part of my daughters local “ walking group “. She wasn’t one of her “ besties “ just a bunch of Mums with the common interest that their kids went to the same primary school and they formed a walking group.

She hadn’t seen her for a while because in Melbourne you could only walk with one other person.

So other than she was 45 , seemingly healthy, no idea.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Unfortunately the reason viruses survive is mutation,we are already seeing people contracting and having issues at a younger age than first thought.
My wife and I are both double vaccinated and at the 6 month interval will get the booster shot.
I am worried for people who have medical issues that will be at higher risk,I believe the mortality rate for influenza is about 0.1%(I may have misheard).
Anyhow I am more concerned about our health system,I have a friend who is a paramedic and she and her colleagues are at the breaking point when it comes to stress at the moment and that is before opening up.
I have many work colleagues who are vocal anti-vaxers and the best line I have for them is that they can choose to not be vaccinated,but if they or their immediate family contract covid and need emergency help then they can just sit at home and ride it out.If they live so be it,if they die so be it,they have made their choice.....

I wish your last paragraph would happen but you and I both know it won’t.

They’ll be the ones screaming and raving about no help coming.