more COVID discussion

[SeaEagleRock8]

I've got the Covid

That said thus far (and touch wood) its just a bit of lethargy.

I'll thank my double pfizer jabs for that.

NYE ruined though....

Good luck. You may be the first Silvertail to disclose having contracted the virus?
Last week my daughter on the central coast tested positive, then her husband and 4 yo child too. They are pretty much over it now, only had minor symptoms,headaches lethargy (double vaxed) and the boy no symptoms.
It seems many of us will be going through this before too much longer, so good luck everyone (and get vaxxed!)

 

[mave]

Just let it rip, the sooner we all get it the better, the anti vaxers have had plenty of time to make up their mind

Seems to be exactly what the Feds and NSW govt are doing

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

our system educated doctors simply memorise and practice pharmaceutical industry policy, procedure and dogma.

What is your evidence for this sweeping statement? I agree with you that big pharma has the resources to lobby and buy politicians but they don't have a monopoly on science.

There is a clear line between mistrust of politicians and profit-motivated business on the one hand and mistrust of science on the other.

Yes big business has a demonstrated record of buying some scientists to muddy the waters (to claim smoking doesn't harm you/fossil fuels don't damage the atmosphere/ etc etc). But eventually the weight of credible peer-reviewed scientific opinion worldwide can't be denied.

@Spartan Eagle is quite right to point out the appalling history of Pfizer but @Volley has put that concern neatly into context.

I'm lucky in having a scientist in the family so I've got first hand knowledge that there are indeed highly ethical people in the field who cannot be bought by vested interests. Contrary to what @BOZO likes to say, it is not the case that everyone is corrupt!

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Seems to be exactly what the Feds and NSW govt are doing

They have decided to follow the Boris Johnson herd immunity plan.

 

[mave]

They have decided to follow the Boris Johnson herd immunity plan.

Which is probably a pretty good call in Australia, if this Omicrom is as mild as some experts are predicting.

Time will tell.

 

[Smokin Joe]

News reports from Adelaide of student drivers being used to drive ambulances and police ferrying patients to hospital as ambulances taking too long to get to those in need.....

 

[Woodsie]

From this debacle I have learned not to trust conventional medicine. Conventional medicine has lost it’s way and has been sold out, our system educated doctors simply memorise and practice pharmaceutical industry policy, procedure and dogma.

The amount of weight pharmaceutical companies have under governments is astonishing.

I am pretty certain that the actions of company directors to maximise profits doesn't effect the performance of their medicine ..

 

[Woodsie]

News reports from Adelaide of student drivers being used to drive ambulances and police ferrying patients to hospital as ambulances taking too long to get to those in need.....

21,000 new cases in NSW alone yesterday ... can you imagine the chaos if this was the Delta strain and it occurred 18 months ago, before we had gotten 90% vaxxed .. and if we hadn't trampled the rights of the precious with social distancing, masks and travel restrictions ... we would have had death toll in the 100,000's and a complete collapse of the healthcare system ...

Thank goodness we were smart enough to delay the inevitable until 95% got vaxxed ... and thank goodness the Omnicon strain is much much milder with only a very small % needing hospitalisation .. we got lucky there .. but there is no quarantee the next mutation/variation will be so kind ..

 

[manly al]

Delta variant is still around apparently and most of the hospital covid admissions in N S W are Delta related . Still plenty of people of all ages in OZ with pre existing conditions and compromised health systems . They should be still entitled to some reasonable form of community health prevention measures . Boris Johnson 's overall covid approach and looks like some Australian poli"s approach also highly questionable and largely discredited for some balanced control . Dominant omicron or not dominant omricron strain , still a lot of potential to cause a lot of grief and disruption to communities all over Australia if the let it rip policy is allowed to prevail over at least some still surely necessary and effective control measures .

 

[Technical Coach]

Lol,I am a simple man.
If the message from the start has been to get vaccinated to help our health systems not be overloaded and others who are in need of the systems unable to access them,then I am not so worried about any complications (eg heart disease)in the future.
If we have our health system in order in the future thanks to vaccination then it would not be a problem with overloaded numbers accessing it in the future?
Using people who play football etc...as an example is really stretching it when comparing them to a pandemic,taking drugs and an STD is also not passed on to the person in the supermarket next to you,so I don't buy that argument...(those personal choices have limited impact on the people surrounding you in your community,if you say **** the community as long as I get what I want then that is your choice).
If the government had been seen to be doing nothing about the virus they would have been destroyed being accused of doing nothing to help people(it is not just self serving as they represent what the majority want)
I actually find it a little ironic about the loss of freedom view.I do not know you and am not saying that you fall into this category....but many people who are in the minority now and demanding their views heard and acted on seem to also be the same people who get pissed that minority groups in the past that they do not like or have any association with demand to be heard and want to dismiss them because that is not what the majority of "Aussies" want.
It is not here in Australia but Eagle of London has stated that the UK has exploding infection numbers but the hospitalizations are remaining relatively stable,maybe hinting that vaccination in working?

Probably the biggest burden on the healthcare system is due to alcohol and that burdens many peoples lives directly and indirectly.(i would be more than happy to ban alcohol consumption but i know this will never happen, yet at the same time i respect people should have the choice)

The comments in this thread were made from the angle of "burden on the healthcare system" and i'm just illustrating how on both sides of the fence you can easily have a confirmation bias if you look at things from a different perspective.

There is enough "newish" developments in regards to the Covid vaccines for people to rightly have hesistations, to question, to read up more on especially due to the pace of development, even if you take into account the large sums of money directed towards research and the speeding up of data gathering to make the advances happen.

Many people working in the UK healthcare system are saying the opposite and that the numbers are not as stable as being promoted and there is strain as the Omicron variant builds momentum.

What the very early data shows is this variant is less lethal but multiplies 70 times faster than Delta, which means less people dieing as a percentage of infections but more people infected still leading to the healthcare system being overwhelmed through sheer weight of numbers.

Do you fear a slow moving version (talking in relative terms) with say for simple numbers sake a 1 in 10 death rate or a fast moving version that kills 3 or 4 in 70, both are going to burden the healthcare system either through it's lethalness/strength or sheer weight of numbers.

Hopefully as more people become infected or vaccinated the strain as predicted will weaken in it's lethal nature to survive(which tends to happen but no guarantees) but i do fear the more targetted vaccine design in these modern vaccines will only offer short term relief which may prolong and offer opportunities for Covid to evolve more.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Probably the biggest burden on the healthcare system is due to alcohol and that burdens many peoples lives directly and indirectly.(i would be more than happy to ban alcohol consumption but i know this will never happen, yet at the same time i respect people should have the choice)

The comments in this thread were made from the angle of "burden on the healthcare system" and i'm just illustrating how on both sides of the fence you can easily have a confirmation bias if you look at things from a different perspective.

There is enough "newish" developments in regards to the Covid vaccines for people to rightly have hesistations, to question, to read up more on especially due to the pace of development, even if you take into account the large sums of money directed towards research and the speeding up of data gathering to make the advances happen.

Many people working in the UK healthcare system are saying the opposite and that the numbers are not as stable as being promoted and there is strain as the Omicron variant builds momentum.

What the very early data shows is this variant is less lethal but multiplies 70 times faster than Delta, which means less people dieing as a percentage of infections but more people infected still leading to the healthcare system being overwhelmed through sheer weight of numbers.

Do you fear a slow moving version (talking in relative terms) with say for simple numbers sake 1 in 10 death date or a fast moving version that kills 3 or 4 in 70, both are going to burden the healthcare system either through it's lethalness/strength or sheer weight of numbers.

Hopefully as more people become infected or vaccinated the strain as predicted will weaken in it's lethal nature to survive(which tends to happen but no guarantees) but i do fear the more targetted vaccine design in these modern vaccines will only offer short term relief which may prolong an offer opportunities for Covid evolve more.

My only real concern through all of this has been to keep our health care systems open and accessible,all strains have their issues,who knows what the next strain will offer us...

 

[Technical Coach]

I am pretty certain that the actions of company directors to maximise profits doesn't effect the performance of their medicine ..

I'm all for people earning as much as they want even if it disgusts me, we always need to provide an environment that provides a variety of incentives for people to develop,research and profit.

But at the same time when the FDA and TGA are receiving large sums of money(from the same companies they regulate over) to fund their associations and first time approvals of drugs is increasing at a rapid rate in line with the increased funding i think it is perfectly acceptable to be very very hesitant and do a little more self research beyond "the health advice".

Lets not equate hesitation and self research along with speaking to people qualified in this field for a wide range of opinions to being "Anti Vax" or conspiracy theorist.

I chose and also felt pressured to get vaccinated at the same time so i waited it out until the FDA approval(even though these days i have a lack of trust due to the funding model), i mean what else can a regular Joe Blow do but i most certainly wasn't going to get the jab within the first 6-8 months at the very least.

 

[Technical Coach]

My only real concern through all of this has been to keep our health care systems open and accessible,all strains have their issues,who knows what the next strain will offer us...

My only concern was to not rush to a decision so in the long term if things turn out bad at least i can say to myself "i made an effort even with my limited capabilities and inside knowledge to make the right decision", health care system was secondary to that.

 

[Smokin Joe]

My only concern was to not rush to a decision so in the long term if things turn out bad at least i can say to myself "i made an effort even with my limited capabilities and inside knowledge to make the right decision", health care system was secondary to that.

That is fine,but if a decision was not made quickly and we ended up with a death toll like the US for example people would have been losing their ****....we responded well to the situation in my opinion.

 

[Woodsie]

I'm all for people earning as much as they want even if it disgusts me, we always need to provide an environment that provides a variety of incentives for people to develop,research and profit.

But at the same time when the FDA and TGA are receiving large sums of money(from the same companies they regulate over) to fund their associations and first time approvals of drugs is increasing at a rapid rate in line with the increased funding i think it is perfectly acceptable to be very very hesitant and do a little more self research beyond "the health advice".

Lets not equate hesitation and self research along with speaking to people qualified in this field for a wide range of opinions to being "Anti Vax" or conspiracy theorist.

I chose and also felt pressured to get vaccinated at the same time so i waited it out until the FDA approval(even though these days i have a lack of trust due to the funding model), i mean what else can a regular Joe Blow do but i most certainly wasn't going to get the jab within the first 6-8 months at the very least.

Personally, as arrogant as I am I have never been arrogant enough to considered that my half hour self research on YouTube would in anyway equal that of every single developed country's FDA and entire medical systems.

 

[Technical Coach]

Personally, as arrogant as I am I have never been arrogant enough to considered that my half hour self research on YouTube would in anyway equal that of every single developed country's FDA and entire medical systems.

Well that is your own choice for only taking 30mins of your time, if that is all the self research you did then i would say you probably don't respect yourself too much and trust Govt wayyyyy too much.

And if you just limited yourself to Youtube and not go into research papers etc then that is just pure laziness.

It is that kind of laziness from the general population that allows Govts to get out of control in a variety of ways and the people become powerless.

I didn't see enough smoking guns in my research to not get vaccinated but i still have grave concerns we are not being told the full story in an open honest manner.

 

[Technical Coach]

That is fine,but if a decision was not made quickly and we ended up with a death toll like the US for example people would have been losing their ****....we responded well to the situation in my opinion.

Our death toll and healthcare management was due to the strict lockdowns and border policy, the healthcare system now is already showing signs of strain in the early stages of the new variant.

I'm not debating the effectiveness of vaccination, never have, it is purely freedom of choice above all.

Filtering and tailoring online information creates distrust and mandates give people a reason to distrust also. Let the effectiveness and safeness(short and long term) of the vaccines speak for themselves and many who distrust Govt or have a predisposition to always doubt everything will more than likely come on board.

 

[Woodsie]

Well that is your own choice for only taking 30mins of your time, if that is all the self research you did then i would say you probably don't respect yourself too much and trust Govt wayyyyy too much.

And if you just limited yourself to Youtube and not go into research papers etc then that is just pure laziness.

It is that kind of laziness from the general population that allows Govts to get out of control in a variety of ways and the people become powerless.

I didn't see enough smoking guns in my research to not get vaccinated but i still have grave concerns we are not being told the full story in an open honest manner.

Well given it would take roughly a min of 10 to 15 years of study and education to even begin to understand the medical science behind the peer reviewed conclusions.. I didn't think I had enough time.

But hey .. I don't want to be called lazy .. I have a spare hour .. Facebook here I come ... now all I need is a medical science dictionary for all those big strange words you obviously know the meaning and importance of but have me scratching my head..

Beware all you PhD professors I coming for you.. and if I get a spare 15min tomorrow to go on snapchat you will be truly screwed..

 

[Technical Coach]

Well given it would take roughly a min of 10 to 15 years of study and education to even begin to understand the medical science behind the peer reviewed conclusions.. I didn't think I had enough time.

But hey .. I don't want to be called lazy .. I have a spare hour .. Facebook here I come ... now all I need is a medical science dictionary for all those big strange words you obviously know the meaning and importance of but have me scratching my head..

Beware all you PhD professors I coming for you.. and if I get a spare 15min tomorrow to go on snapchat you will be truly screwed..

Why are you making sweeping generalizations to enhance your argument when they are not reflective of my views or how i went about my research, "in the end" i came to the conclusion i should still get vaccinated so what is your problem.

If your aim is to appear tough and arrogant behind a "sense of humour or sarcasm" you are failing in both departments big time---- well to me anyway, obviously the broader demographic probably finds you entertaining though so maybe Facebook is where you should spend more time at.(glad you found your home)

 

[Disco]

Good luck. You may be the first Silvertail to disclose having contracted the virus?
Last week my daughter on the central coast tested positive, then her husband and 4 yo child too. They are pretty much over it now, only had minor symptoms,headaches lethargy (double vaxed) and the boy no symptoms.
It seems many of us will be going through this before too much longer, so good luck everyone (and get vaxxed!)

Yeah it has ripped through my social circle but everone vaxxed and everyone mild at this stage.

Was meant to be on a catamaran on the harbour tomorrow though so sucks to miss that