more COVID discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Really? Sorry about that.
You posted that keeping our nation great is about keeping "freedom of choice". The context being, we should be free to refuse the vaccine without risking losing our jobs.

My point was, many people don't even have a job. And of those, many may never have a job.

So how does the concept of 'freedom' even have any relevance to employment in Australia? Don't you think the issue is really job security, and the right to work?
See how much easier it is to get a point across when you're not liquored up to the eyeballs. I read the post TC referred to and thought - my goodness SER8 - get off the hard stuff.
 
Interesting indeed, but I'm not entirely sure what point you and Cioran are getting at here.
It sounds like you think that is excessive.

If so - what would you say is the appropriate number of new pharma billionaires? Only one or two?

And if you are worried about the executives getting so much, do you have any concerns about the shareholders? I mean, the CEO and executives only do the bidding of the board, who are appointed to represent the shareholders. (Democracy!)

Do you think we should limit how many shares a person can hold in Pfizer (for example)?

If so, how can we come up with the right number? And how could it ever be regulated? Seeing how the richer they get the more they hire specialists to bury their assets deep in elaborate corporate hiding places so no-one can even work out what they own!!

Stone the crows, you might have opened a big can of worms here. Well done!
They're not just making money - It's raining cash. Now if they'd just share the patent on their vaccines so the poor folk can get vaccinated. That would be the moral thing to do in such a humanitarian crisis.
 
Strong's #5331: pharmakeia (pronounced far-mak-i'-ah)



from 5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft.




Thayer's Greek Lexicon:



́



pharmakeia



1) the use or the administering of drugs

2) poisoning

3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

4) metaphorically the deceptions and seductions of idolatry
 
Profits are unparalleled if you take into consideration that $0 went into development (this was all funded by governments / tax payers) and $0 into advertising. The 3-4 main companies have a monopoly on world market. This is unheard of. Normally with any drug millions and years go into research and development and even then there is no guarantee the product will hit the shelves depending on safety/efficacy from trials. We are in the hands of the 'science' of big pharma. No independant studies on safety or efficacy is being carried out by our government/ body. And our government has also indemnified Pfizer, Moderna and Astra of any liability for potential harm. So those that do legitimitaly get injuries from vaccines have no recourse. The green light run is on for big pharma for the forceable future.

If you want to watch a series that fully backs your distrust in big Pharma, check out this series called Dopesick. Micheal Keaton is in it, and as usual is brilliant in the character he plays.

https://disneyplus.com/series/dopesick/vaEHfF8OZHUP?sharesource=iOSI thought you might like 'Dopesick' on Disney+.
 
Last edited:
I personally am fine if people choose to be unvaxed,I however would hope that if any who do and then fall sick show the courage of their convictions and stay home and ride it out without burdening the healthcare system(essentially you made your bed,now lie in it,if you live then so be it,if you die then so be it)
Unfortunately that is not the case.......
First of all Australias control over the outbreak is largely due to strict lockdown measures and securing our borders, vaccination for now has contributed to some degree but will show it's impact/benefits from now on as we are free to move around----but we don't know as of yet if it will make a large enough impact so that the healthcare system can cope with the numbers.(we are still in the early stages at around 6000 new cases a day i think in NSW and there is already small signs of struggling to cope)

Secondly the "stay at home ride it out without burdening the healthcare system" is an over simplistic way of looking at things.(i am actually the type in many ways agrees with this statement but i just don't ever see that line of thinking working so i try to remain balanced "at times" lol) We don't make the same argument with people who are not vaccinated for the flu for example, so are you happy to "ride it out at home" if we find out in years to come that people who chose to be vaccinated are at greater risk of heart disease or other issues.

We have a healthcare system to provide indivuals greater support for all related health issues and also to provide our lives with a greater range of choice with the security of being looked after if things happen to us in our daily lives. Your statement can be stretched with every choice we make in life, from unprotected sex, playing Rugby League over Netball(in relation to all sorts of injuries) from drug taking etc etc are you going to tell everyone "its all on you, you made a choice now don't burden the healthcare system".

My issue once again is not against vaccination, it is about the Govt having an over reach into our freedoms. The Govt should of remained neutral on vaccination until at the very least FDA and TGA approval,even though these days i don't fully trust either but it is the best we can rely on in this corrupted world.
 
Don’t worry I’ve had both my shots vaccination tequila  Men's round neck T-shirt
 
Really? Sorry about that.
You posted that keeping our nation great is about keeping "freedom of choice". The context being, we should be free to refuse the vaccine without risking losing our jobs.

My point was, many people don't even have a job. And of those, many may never have a job.

So how does the concept of 'freedom' even have any relevance to employment in Australia? Don't you think the issue is really job security, and the right to work?
I still don't get the angle you are taking or how it relates to what i am talking about.

You are merely stating the obvious that has always existed in relation to who is employed and who isn't in this world.

At the moment by and large we don't have a wide ranging mandate in terms of being vaccinated to retain your job it is limited to certain sectors/job descriptions, but there is a growing general mentality that it is acceptable to have this line of thinking in all jobs as if it is basically already law.

There is a difference between limiting a persons job opportunities due to mandates focussed on some work sectors and having no right to work in all areas because you are not vaccinated.
 
First of all Australias control over the outbreak is largely due to strict lockdown measures and securing our borders, vaccination for now has contributed to some degree but will show it's impact/benefits from now on as we are free to move around----but we don't know as of yet if it will make a large enough impact so that the healthcare system can cope with the numbers.(we are still in the early stages at around 6000 new cases a day i think in NSW and there is already small signs of struggling to cope)

Secondly the "stay at home ride it out without burdening the healthcare system" is an over simplistic way of looking at things.(i am actually the type in many ways agrees with this statement but i just don't ever see that line of thinking working so i try to remain balanced "at times" lol) We don't make the same argument with people who are not vaccinated for the flu for example, so are you happy to "ride it out at home" if we find out in years to come that people who chose to be vaccinated are at greater risk of heart disease or other issues.

We have a healthcare system to provide indivuals greater support for all related health issues and also to provide our lives with a greater range of choice with the security of being looked after if things happen to us in our daily lives. Your statement can be stretched with every choice we make in life, from unprotected sex, playing Rugby League over Netball(in relation to all sorts of injuries) from drug taking etc etc are you going to tell everyone "its all on you, you made a choice now don't burden the healthcare system".

My issue once again is not against vaccination, it is about the Govt having an over reach into our freedoms. The Govt should of remained neutral on vaccination until at the very least FDA and TGA approval,even though these days i don't fully trust either but it is the best we can rely on in this corrupted world.
Lol,I am a simple man.
If the message from the start has been to get vaccinated to help our health systems not be overloaded and others who are in need of the systems unable to access them,then I am not so worried about any complications (eg heart disease)in the future.
If we have our health system in order in the future thanks to vaccination then it would not be a problem with overloaded numbers accessing it in the future?
Using people who play football etc...as an example is really stretching it when comparing them to a pandemic,taking drugs and an STD is also not passed on to the person in the supermarket next to you,so I don't buy that argument...(those personal choices have limited impact on the people surrounding you in your community,if you say **** the community as long as I get what I want then that is your choice).
If the government had been seen to be doing nothing about the virus they would have been destroyed being accused of doing nothing to help people(it is not just self serving as they represent what the majority want)
I actually find it a little ironic about the loss of freedom view.I do not know you and am not saying that you fall into this category....but many people who are in the minority now and demanding their views heard and acted on seem to also be the same people who get pissed that minority groups in the past that they do not like or have any association with demand to be heard and want to dismiss them because that is not what the majority of "Aussies" want.
It is not here in Australia but Eagle of London has stated that the UK has exploding infection numbers but the hospitalizations are remaining relatively stable,maybe hinting that vaccination in working?
 
Lol,I am a simple man.
If the message from the start has been to get vaccinated to help our health systems not be overloaded and others who are in need of the systems unable to access them,then I am not so worried about any complications (eg heart disease)in the future.
If we have our health system in order in the future thanks to vaccination then it would not be a problem with overloaded numbers accessing it in the future?
Using people who play football etc...as an example is really stretching it when comparing them to a pandemic,taking drugs and an STD is also not passed on to the person in the supermarket next to you,so I don't buy that argument...(those personal choices have limited impact on the people surrounding you in your community,if you say **** the community as long as I get what I want then that is your choice).
If the government had been seen to be doing nothing about the virus they would have been destroyed being accused of doing nothing to help people(it is not just self serving as they represent what the majority want)
I actually find it a little ironic about the loss of freedom view.I do not know you and am not saying that you fall into this category....but many people who are in the minority now and demanding their views heard and acted on seem to also be the same people who get pissed that minority groups in the past that they do not like or have any association with demand to be heard and want to dismiss them because that is not what the majority of "Aussies" want.
It is not here in Australia but Eagle of London has stated that the UK has exploding infection numbers but the hospitalizations are remaining relatively stable,maybe hinting that vaccination in working?
Omicron has widely been reported as a much weaker strain in terms of illness and side effects. To put this into perspective, allow me to share the following. So far, I know eleven people who have tested positive to Omicron. Eight of them are either double or triple vaxxed. None of them required hospitalisation or special care, nor did they report as feeling very sick. The vast majority were over it in a day or two. One of them is still feeling a bit lethargic on day three.
 
Omicron has widely been reported as a much weaker strain in terms of illness and side effects. To put this into perspective, allow me to share the following. So far, I know eleven people who have tested positive to Omicron. Eight of them are either double or triple vaxxed. None of them required hospitalisation or special care, nor did they report as feeling very sick. The vast majority were over it in a day or two. One of them is still feeling a bit lethargic on day three.
Not sure what point or points you are making......if the ones who were vaxed were not,could you guarantee that their reaction would not have been worse?
There are only a small percentage who require hospitalization from the stats as we all know,of the 3 not vaxed it would be highly unlikely that any of them would require hospitalization,Kev....they do not make judgements or assessments about the virus and its impacts based on a case study of 3 of Kevs' mates.
You doubt the science and govt etc....but this is where the problem arises,too many people making judgements based on a mate or someone who had it and they didn't die so no problem....
 
If you want to watch a series that fully backs your distrust in big Pharma, check out this series called Dopesick. Micheal Keaton is in it, and as usual is brilliant in the character he plays.

https://disneyplus.com/series/dopesick/vaEHfF8OZHUP?sharesource=iOSI thought you might like 'Dopesick' on Disney+.
I don't understand how anyone can trust Pfeizer?? Especially given their tainted history in Nigeria. They gave trovafloxacin to children an experimental treatment and failed to obtain informed consent from parents. The children died. After many years it was settled out of court. And now the world is blindly trusting this Pharma giant with their lives and the future lives of their children. It's f madness.
 
I don't understand how anyone can trust Pfeizer
But seriously, do you think any of the same people are even in the company now? That was in 1996!
Anyway, surely you aren't suggesting the US FDA and the Australian TGA approved the Pfizer jab just because the Pfizer CEO emailed them to say "We've got one! It works fine".
Can we trust Moderna and A-Z?
Can we trust our own scientists and health officials?
Who (if anyone) do you recommend we should trust?
 
They're not just making money - It's raining cash. Now if they'd just share the patent on their vaccines so the poor folk can get vaccinated. That would be the moral thing to do in such a humanitarian crisis.
So now you accept it IS a humanitarian crisis?

Haven’t you been at pains to support the idea that it's a pretty ineffective pandemic? Not all that many even die, most were already dying of something else anyway …wasn’t that your position?

Well it's good to see we're making some progress at least 🙂
 
Not sure what point or points you are making......if the ones who were vaxed were not,could you guarantee that their reaction would not have been worse?
There are only a small percentage who require hospitalization from the stats as we all know,of the 3 not vaxed it would be highly unlikely that any of them would require hospitalization,Kev....they do not make judgements or assessments about the virus and its impacts based on a case study of 3 of Kevs' mates.
You doubt the science and govt etc....but this is where the problem arises,too many people making judgements based on a mate or someone who had it and they didn't die so no problem....
But its not just Kev's family and friends; the government have released the information that Omicron is a much milder strain. Greg Hunt said they have definitive proof on channel seven news this morning.
 
Last edited:
But seriously, do you think any of the same people are even in the company now? That was in 1996!
Anyway, surely you aren't suggesting the US FDA and the Australian TGA approved the Pfizer jab just because the Pfizer CEO emailed them to say "We've got one! It works fine".
Can we trust Moderna and A-Z?
Can we trust our own scientists and health officials?
Who (if anyone) do you recommend we should trust?
But seriously, do you think any of the same people are even in the company now? That was in 1996!
Anyway, surely you aren't suggesting the US FDA and the Australian TGA approved the Pfizer jab just because the Pfizer CEO emailed them to say "We've got one! It works fine".
Can we trust Moderna and A-Z?
Can we trust our own scientists and health officials?
Who (if anyone) do you recommend we should trust?
That's precisely what they have done in terms of any long term side effects. A current Affair reported last night that there has been 79000 adverse reactions to the vaccine in Australia, and the government is now rolling out a compensation program.
 
So now you accept it IS a humanitarian crisis?

Haven’t you been at pains to support the idea that it's a pretty ineffective pandemic? Not all that many even die, most were already dying of something else anyway …wasn’t that your position?

Well it's good to see we're making some progress at least 🙂
I see that hyperbole is lost on you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Team P W L PD Pts
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
Back
Top Bottom