Manly Sea Eagles: Does the club need to relocate?

[conanu]

Bottom line [ and pardon the pun ] but that is the main and important reality , even with the standard 13 mil N R l club grants from next season , still having to provide the fiance and money to make up the shortfall to the 20 - 22 mil per season [ as is the case now \ to adequately fund a N R l operating franchise . And that for almost all N R l clubs, is not just for one season but consecutive and ongoing seasons .That is what the Penns are and have been prepared to contribute and cater for and unless some other credible and credentialed individuals or entity can definitely or is prepared to make a similar commitment , i am not too sure what a better alternative is at the present time .[ even allowing for a perceived less then ideal environment at club level at the moment ] Also when the team made the semi"s last season the Penns had their similar current control , so can not see how the relevance for this seasons poor results can be attributed to them .

that is ridiculous! the Manly club are not spending 22 million a year to keep the place operating. That is a broncos outlay. We would be spending around the 13mi. The most lost in a year was 500-1mil we broke even last year.

 

[Mrs D]

Thanks Mark

 

[Mrs D]

You drank the coolaide. Pal, stop believing the trotted out line that the Penns are tipping in money. They have got back every cent and then some through the sale of the leagues club asset. The NRL has always covered most of the players wages and If they aren't smart enough to be able to generate enough income to sustain the club through other streams of revenue they should walk away and allow someone with some real business accumen to run and own it, not some family that have lived off the huge sale of one business 20 odd years ago for the last 20 odd years. I honestly believe if the Penns put a reasonable price tag on the club there would be a suitable buyer found in no time flat, no problem at all. The grant from the NRL covers players wages and another million for administration of the club with a salary cap on football ops, so if they cant make it work with that kind of support then they are clearly not apt at running any business and should give it away. Anthony from URM would be the first guy I would ask to buy the club, he has the right personality and business savvy and really loves the club. The club needs an owner that would push his ego a side for the good of the club and engage positively with the MWRLFC and the fans to generate much needed goodwill and support, winning the hearts and minds of not only Manly supporters but also the NRL, instead of fighting a toxic war with every person involved with the real Manly Warringah club and the NRL. These idiots have been a cancer at that club from the very day they bought into it and the proof is in the pudding, because as soon as they took full ownership the club after blaming all the earlier problems on others the club has dived into freefall and had its worst period since 1947 including the NE debacle and their answer is to once again blame fans. They are scum and need to be steam cleaned off the Manly club. They didn't buy the club outright because they loved it, they bought it because they are corporate bullies who couldn't stand other factions pushing a fan based and love of the club agenda.

There is $10million sitting there from the federal government that the state government said they would match dollar for dollar. No one is lobbying for it as it is of no benefit to the Penn family to remain at Brooky oval. They refused to pay the $500,000 debt owed to stay there hence why lottoland bought it and renamed the oval. It’s a shame really

 

[Mrs D]

BEST EVER first post. Please feel free to write weekly Mrs D, you are already with a legend of the club, now you are one to!

Thankyou. Sometimes I have to remember to keep my mouth shut because I don’t want anyone thinking I’m doing this because Max has bad blood. Max has sad blood like all fans and I hate seeing him depressed each week after the game

 

[Mrs D]

The world is full of great revolutions...let’s start one right now.[/QUOTE]
Max has tried to get back into the club from numerous sources and each time it is denied unfortunately

 

[Mrs D]

The part I don’t get is I still haven’t forgiven max for Twitter comments when he got into a stoush with Ritchie a couple of years ago and to paraphrase said that the penns were running the joint into the ground and he couldn’t wait for the day it happened. That’s not a person that loves manly. That’s a person with an enormous ego who thinks it’s all about him. He also kept saying the club “he built”. Manly has 70 plus years of successful history which is what neither of these millionaires seem to get. Owning a team seems to be like a plaything to stroke an ego (e.g. Nathan tinkler).

You’d never see Arko wishing ill on the club because something was happening he didn’t agree with. But then again he and max aren’t cut from the same cloth. Arko bleeds maroon and white

That was myself sending those tweets to that journalist.
Everything I tweeted was absolutely correct and look where we are now as my paraphrases as you suggest are correct! I must have seen it coming from a mile away and years ago.
You had beef with Max well before any twitter stoush so don’t try and use that as a lame excuse.
Max has never once thought it was about him hence why he gained nothing back from the club financially. But I will add he did get the highest win in NRL history as major sponsor and co owner and that to him was what it was about.

We all know the Penns have wanted to do things to the club for years and Max wouldn’t allow it with the backing of the board. So please don’t try and make out your intentions are to try and set records straight. Max loves Manly and don’t sit there and say he doesn’t. No one I’m their right mind would GIVE $15+ million with no return (unlike the Penns who have made back all money invested plus interest) because they hate the club.

Like seriously!

 

[Dee Why Eagle]

Relocation wont help unless we fix up the infrastructure of the front office which would include an ownership change. If we move and leave the current lot in charge it would be akin to leaving your missus and moving in with the mother in law......more years of hell.

might be an improvement!

 

[G-land Express]

I can handle the team having an off year or couple of years as rebuilding is just the nature of sport. I can also handle mistakes and wrong decisions made internally with the club admin as that's just part of the drama but what I can't handle is how the games admin (The NRL) helps some clubs but then leaves others to fend for themselves. What makes the AFL such a great organisation is that they support ALL clubs across the board fairly. The AFL recognise that traditional Vic clubs like the Western Bulldogs, Tigers and St Kilda are part of the grassroots and they nurture that theory in all their marketing and promos. Even though they are giving massive leg-ups to the GWS and Gold Coast they still keep support in place for St Kilda who are having a bad run. Rugby leagues strength is that it is the peoples game for the states of NSW and Qld and the NRL in their blind obsession with trying to compete with the AFL have left their core behind. People generally want to follow a sport that is seen to be successful and playing out of empty stadiums is not a good look. Well fitted out rectangle suburban grounds with good services and features where you are close to the action is what RL should be about. If Brookvale oval had the reno's done on it that should have been done ages ago and if the NRL had a clue about how to schedule games according to local demographics then the crowds would be good enough. If Manly were forced to relocate then I don't blame the admin or all the other stuff that's gone on, I blame the NRL for not doing their job in supporting and promoting the game.

 

[manly al]

that is ridiculous! the Manly club are not spending 22 million a year to keep the place operating. That is a broncos outlay. We would be spending around the 13mi. The most lost in a year was 500-1mil we broke even last year.

Didn"t say that Manly were outlaying 22 mil per season now in operational costs and just based the at least 20 mil figure for a N R L franchise operation on that level presently and publicly reported as a general guide indication . Souths for instance were reported as spending 20 mil plus on their footy operation last season and i am sure that there would be more including the Broncos . My guess is that Manly "s current overall outlay would be certainly more then 13 mil but no doubt less then say 20 mil . The Penn sports group have reportedly tipped in some 10 mil since their involvement and i think that the club broke even one season in recent times . You seem quite knowledgeable with your general input on here and maybe better informed and my understanding is just based on seemingly reliable reports . Anyway always willing to certainly stand corrected but what is not in doubt is that there have been more losses then break even outcomes for the Penns to cover since their majority ownership situation .

 

[mave]

Luckily for the Penns, the profits from the LC sale will cover them, and then some.

 

[lurker]

That was myself sending those tweets to that journalist.
Everything I tweeted was absolutely correct and look where we are now as my paraphrases as you suggest are correct! I must have seen it coming from a mile away and years ago.
You had beef with Max well before any twitter stoush so don’t try and use that as a lame excuse.
Max has never once thought it was about him hence why he gained nothing back from the club financially. But I will add he did get the highest win in NRL history as major sponsor and co owner and that to him was what it was about.

We all know the Penns have wanted to do things to the club for years and Max wouldn’t allow it with the backing of the board. So please don’t try and make out your intentions are to try and set records straight. Max loves Manly and don’t sit there and say he doesn’t. No one I’m their right mind would GIVE $15+ million with no return (unlike the Penns who have made back all money invested plus interest) because they hate the club.

Like seriously!

I don’t hate max. I’ve never said I hate max. I don’t hate anyone.

I’m grateful for all he did for the club.

All I’m saying is that if he loves the club I’d appreciate him not bagging them publicly. The club is the club regardless of who owns them. I have loved manly since I first remember watching league (I have memories of standing at the back of the hill on milk crates with my old man at 5).

Even if you hate the owners if you love manly you should still want them to succeed even if it means the person you hate succeeds. If you don’t wish that then do you really love the club or are you just bitter?

Max made a choice to put money in and unfortunately it didn’t end well. No one else made him do it. From everything I’ve read (and that is just from articles) he doesn’t seem to have regrets about doing it and enjoyed his time and what he could do for the club.

This isn’t a popularity contest for me. I don’t support someone and not someone else. I support manly. That’s why I write passionately on this forum. So whoever owns the club while they do has my support. They don’t necessarily have my approval but the club has my support.

I just wish max would show more of the love for manly that you say he has rather than complaining about the club or its direction or any number of other things while bringing it back to how much he put in.

That’s all I’m going to say because I don’t want to be drawn in to this again and quite frankly people get a bit nasty

(Edit) one last thing. I hate being accused of having anything to do with the penns. Like ****ing hate it. My great uncle is a life member of the football club and leagues club and was made one before ken Arthurson. I respect the history of the club above all else. We had 50 years of it before we had private owners

 

[BOZO]

Any one who puts their money to own or support their club is a legend as far as I am concerned .

 

[sheridanstand78]

Th club needs serious investment. Frustrating that the club is run on a shoestring budget and the dysfunction that is a highlight of the Penn reign continues to dog the club.

The deafening silence indicates to me that they have no serious intention of getting Brookvale upgraded and we need to understand that soon we will be playing at a new home as the NRL will demand this eventually!!

We need committed owners, and a club that is united rather than fractured like it is right now and we need our club legends around the club to teach the next generation.

I thank the Penns for their investment but if they are not able to or willing to invest further, then please sell the club to a party that will do this and put the fans and members first!!!

 

[lurker]

Th club needs serious investment. Frustrating that the club is run on a shoestring budget and the dysfunction that is a highlight of the Penn reign continues to dog the club.

The deafening silence indicates to me that they have no serious intention of getting Brookvale upgraded and we need to understand that soon we will be playing at a new home as the NRL will demand this eventually!!

We need committed owners, and a club that is united rather than fractured like it is right now and we need our club legends around the club to teach the next generation.

I thank the Penns for their investment but if they are not able to or willing to invest further, then please sell the club to a party that will do this and put the fans and members first!!!

Brookie is a fairly simple equation for me. I blame the council. They own the ground. They won’t put it into a state trust it seems but won’t do anything about it either. The state government isn’t going to put money into a stadium they don’t own or control. Case in point they own parra stadium and it is operated by a trust. Same as the sfs.

The state government hates the ineptitude of local government. In my view the clubs hands are tied and northern beaches council is screwing us all over.

In my view they know the land is worth a crapload and they’d rather make money off it somehow than hand it over for free to the state government

 

[conanu]

Didn"t say that Manly were outlaying 22 mil per season now in operational costs and just based the at least 20 mil figure for a N R L franchise operation on that level presently and publicly reported as a general guide indication . Souths for instance were reported as spending 20 mil plus on their footy operation last season and i am sure that there would be more including the Broncos . My guess is that Manly "s current overall outlay would be certainly more then 13 mil but no doubt less then say 20 mil . The Penn sports group have reportedly tipped in some 10 mil since their involvement and i think that the club broke even one season in recent times . You seem quite knowledgeable with your general input on here and maybe better informed and my understanding is just based on seemingly reliable reports . Anyway always willing to certainly stand corrected but what is not in doubt is that there have been more losses then break even outcomes for the Penns to cover since their majority ownership situation .

Hi Al, sorry if that came across harshly towards you, It certainly wasn’t intended that way. I really respect your input and you have an excellent knowledge of a lot of the legal issues we discuss. You make a very good point on this this issue. My guess is we are spending very close to the grant amount of 13 million and I believe that is why we don’t compete with the big spenders. We won premierships in recent years due to our culture and other players wanting to be part of that. Unfortunately in recent years the Penns have pushed that culture to the side because of bad blood and corporate agendas. Now we perform like a team that only spends enough money to survive. The Penns will never inject huge money hence why they have only lost 10 million over 11 years. Which was more than covered by the leagues club sale. It is a bit like a bank claiming to have bought you a house because they have given you a mortgage. The real dollar figure the Penns have actually tipped in would be very small in reality. Unfortunately because it is no longer a club there is no need for the Penns to publish the figures, so they can exaggerate everything to suit their own agenda. It could actually be quite a handy tax minimisation vehicle for them. We will never know because they will never publish their figures also probably why they distance themselves from the football club. We the fans should buy all the shares back through the actual Manly Warringah RLFC memberships of the real football club, as it is written into the ownership deal that any money raised through the football club allows the fans to purchase back shares, and wrestle ownership back that way. It was set up that way by Max originally so that the fans could buy the club back.That ownership contract could actually be Max’s greatest gift to the fans.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Yes, we need to relocate... relocate to the Shire. Our home ground should be Southern Cross Group Stadium.

 

[manly al]

Hi Al, sorry if that came across harshly towards you, It certainly wasn’t intended that way. I really respect your input and you have an excellent knowledge of a lot of the legal issues we discuss. You make a very good point on this this issue. My guess is we are spending very close to the grant amount of 13 million and I believe that is why we don’t compete with the big spenders. We won premierships in recent years due to our culture and other players wanting to be part of that. Unfortunately in recent years the Penns have pushed that culture to the side because of bad blood and corporate agendas. Now we perform like a team that only spends enough money to survive. The Penns will never inject huge money hence why they have only lost 10 million over 11 years. Which was more than covered by the leagues club sale. It is a bit like a bank claiming to have bought you a house because they have given you a mortgage. The real dollar figure the Penns have actually tipped in would be very small in reality. Unfortunately because it is no longer a club there is no need for the Penns to publish the figures, so they can exaggerate everything to suit their own agenda. It could actually be quite a handy tax minimisation vehicle for them. We will never know because they will never publish their figures also probably why they distance themselves from the football club. We the fans should buy all the shares back through the actual Manly Warringah RLFC memberships of the real football club, as it is written into the ownership deal that any money raised through the football club allows the fans to purchase back shares, and wrestle ownership back that way. It was set up that way by Max originally so that the fans could buy the club back.That ownership contract could actually be Max’s greatest gift to the fans.

All good and i appreciated the good grace in your post

of disquiet with some of the occurrences on the club scene such as the previous instability at the front office and the disbanding of the Eagles angels and a few other instances . Anyway hopefully Gorman can settle things down a bit and some of the well intenti

 

[Peter C]

Hi Al, sorry if that came across harshly towards you, It certainly wasn’t intended that way. I really respect your input and you have an excellent knowledge of a lot of the legal issues we discuss. You make a very good point on this this issue. My guess is we are spending very close to the grant amount of 13 million and I believe that is why we don’t compete with the big spenders. We won premierships in recent years due to our culture and other players wanting to be part of that. Unfortunately in recent years the Penns have pushed that culture to the side because of bad blood and corporate agendas. Now we perform like a team that only spends enough money to survive. The Penns will never inject huge money hence why they have only lost 10 million over 11 years. Which was more than covered by the leagues club sale. It is a bit like a bank claiming to have bought you a house because they have given you a mortgage. The real dollar figure the Penns have actually tipped in would be very small in reality. Unfortunately because it is no longer a club there is no need for the Penns to publish the figures, so they can exaggerate everything to suit their own agenda. It could actually be quite a handy tax minimisation vehicle for them. We will never know because they will never publish their figures also probably why they distance themselves from the football club. We the fans should buy all the shares back through the actual Manly Warringah RLFC memberships of the real football club, as it is written into the ownership deal that any money raised through the football club allows the fans to purchase back shares, and wrestle ownership back that way. It was set up that way by Max originally so that the fans could buy the club back.That ownership contract could actually be Max’s greatest gift to the fans.

I don't know the Penns at all, but you seem to think that a 10 million dollar loss over 11 years is not substantial , then tell me, who elso was prepared to come in and lose more money to make it substantial.
The Penn purchase and resale of the Leagues Club was a one off event and totally unrelated to the Sea Eagles, Penns got lucky simple as that, it could have gone pearshaped for them, no one forced the Leagues Club to sell the property to them, if anything blame the directors for not having the foresight that the Penns had.
Good luck getting the members to come up with 12 million to buy the club and also kick in another 1 to 2 million every as well.

 

[conanu]

I don't know the Penns at all, but you seem to think that a 10 million dollar loss over 11 years is not substantial , then tell me, who elso was prepared to come in and lose more money to make it substantial.
The Penn purchase and resale of the Leagues Club was a one off event and totally unrelated to the Sea Eagles, Penns got lucky simple as that, it could have gone pearshaped for them, no one forced the Leagues Club to sell the property to them, if anything blame the directors for not having the foresight that the Penns had.
Good luck getting the members to come up with 12 million to buy the club and also kick in another 1 to 2 million every as well.

They pocketed more than 10 million from that sale, so they haven’t lost a cent. Trust me these guys aren’t tipping in money, we get a 13 million grant we have sponsorships, memberships naming rights to cover the ground costs. They aren’t paying in money which is why we can’t compete. Brenda the lovely lady that sponsors players has tipped in more money than the Penns.

 

[Loobs]

In my view the clubs hands are tied and northern beaches council is screwing us all over.

In my view they know the land is worth a crapload and they’d rather make money off it somehow than hand it over for free to the state government

They are looking at that Meriton monstrosity going up in DY which they green lit and are licking their lips thinking about what they could throw up on Brookie oval...