Manase Fainu

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I can hear the noise now.
 
It makes complete sense Mark.

If we don’t sign him, others can approach him and if he gets off, we lose him.

If we sign him and he gets off, we get him cheap.

If we sign him and he gets charged, contract null and void.

It’s a win win situation to re-sign him on unders.

The club gets dispensation for him being stood down so the club isn’t disadvantaged. I think it has zero to do with loyalty and all to do with the potential of him getting off. He’s a superstar in the making in the 9 jersey. You don’t let them go.
You didn't factor in losing potentially 2yrs of development as a hooker or restricting the ability to recruit a high quality option in that time.

Also could be losing 3yrs if Fainu takes time to get back to form in his first year.
 
Agree hate the gangster bull****, it's so hard to not cringe at the little hand signs and the Gucci hats w/ branded shoes, branded tops, branded pants. That's one thing I don't like about Fainu at all. Surely by the time he retires (supposing he gets free from the charges) at age 35 or whatever he will be past this phase. Surely?

Anyways, as for what I see first hand, and putting those stats in perspective, I'd rather Fainu make 38 tackles a game, yet miss less than Api does. Sure he makes 3 more tackles a game on average but that isn't all that exciting and probably is a little distorted by their average game time. So 50/50 on defence. I don't think either are horrible by any strech in that regard although do think Api is less consistent, pulling off awesome one-on-one tackles but slacking at times. Personally I vote Fainu in that department, but when it comes to attacking structure and all-round attack i'd say hands down Fainu. As for off-field as we've established Fainu is a little concerning (same w/ Suli) and definitely Api takes the cake there.

Fair enough to vote Api as the all-round better influence, but if we want results i'd have to say we try sort through Fainu's off-field problems and get him in a place to play some footy in the 9 jersey.
Those stats are a hand picked year along with not looking into stats with any depth i'm sure of it.

Not all missed tackles are as bad as made out.

1)It's easier to reduce your missed tackles if you stand back in the line and just absorb the go forward with help on either side for example.
2)Trying to be proactive and attempt attacking tackles or applying defensive pressure with intensity can increase missed tackles
3) GPS readings combined with intensity levels.
4) Moving around not making tackles just to keep the middle tight will exhaust a defender more.
5) Is it better to attempt 65 tackles and miss 10 or 45 tackles and miss three.
6) Tackles per minute and minutes played.
7) Ability to slow down the ruck in each tackle.
8)Different periods of the game are played at a higher intensity, for example the first 25mins large fresh forwards will often punch through smaller defenders who try and instigate contact.
9)Field position of missed tackles.
10) Quality of defenders around you helping out along with fatigue levels of others.
(that is just a small sample of things you should look into before jumping to conclusions)

The list goes on and on, but just reading stats as stats can hide the real reasons, numbers mean nothing if you don't understand how they came about.

Look at Api's tackle stats this season often hitting mid 50's (highest was 69) for a team at the top of the table sometimes that can actually lower your tackle stats as they tend to dominate possession and field position---not always though. Most games he was playing 70-80mins so reducing the load on the interchange.

If Fainu improves his defensive intensity and tackling along with playing long minutes often then we can start talking about how good Fainu is , until then he still has a long long way to go.
 
Those stats are a hand picked year along with not looking into stats with any depth i'm sure of it.

Not all missed tackles are as bad as made out.

1)It's easier to reduce your missed tackles if you stand back in the line and just absorb the go forward with help on either side for example.
2)Trying to be proactive and attempt attacking tackles or applying defensive pressure with intensity can increase missed tackles
3) GPS readings combined with intensity levels.
4) Moving around not making tackles just to keep the middle tight will exhaust a defender more.
5) Is it better to attempt 65 tackles and miss 10 or 45 tackles and miss three.
6) Tackles per minute and minutes played.
7) Ability to slow down the ruck in each tackle.
8)Different periods of the game are played at a higher intensity, for example the first 25mins large fresh forwards will often punch through smaller defenders who try and instigate contact.
9)Field position of missed tackles.
10) Quality of defenders around you helping out along with fatigue levels of others.
(that is just a small sample of things you should look into before jumping to conclusions)

The list goes on and on, but just reading stats as stats can hide the real reasons, numbers mean nothing if you don't understand how they came about.

Look at Api's tackle stats this season often hitting mid 50's (highest was 69) for a team at the top of the table sometimes that can actually lower your tackle stats as they tend to dominate possession and field position---not always though. Most games he was playing 70-80mins so reducing the load on the interchange.

If Fainu improves his defensive intensity and tackling along with playing long minutes often then we can start talking about how good Fainu is , until then he still has a long long way to go.
At the end of the day for a majority of people Fainu was by far the better dummy half in 2019, gauged more importantly on seeing him first-hand. I agree we can talk in loops about stats but the reality is that Fainu outplayed Api to get the starting role, then Api was let go because we threw the eggs in Fainu's basket and banked on him not getting accused of a church stabbing (who would've thought). Even if Api stayed here had Fainu not been stood down, Fainu would still be the starting number 9 and for a good reason. As contrarian as some want to be when it comes to Fainu vs Api, this is the reality of the situation.

I also agree that tackle and miss-tackle stats are subjective and in my opinion aren't the be all and end all. For me it's more about their choices. With both Api and Fainu our middle was pretty secure so I don't think defence is a bragging point for either of them, nor is it a dwelling point. Attack is where it is at and Fainu was more direct, had better support and had a playmaking vision rather than Api who is a great attacking opportunist and good with second-phase play (as is Fainu). I hope we get Fainu back in 2021 because he is a significant individual toward the combinations and direction of our team as a whole, his game is very team-orientated.
 
If Fainu improves his defensive intensity and tackling along with playing long minutes often then we can start talking about how good Fainu is , until then he still has a long long way to go.
Freddy Fittler highly impressed with Fainu....
It is a measure of how highly Manase Fainu is regarded that Brad Fittler recently summoned the Manly hooker to his wife’s cafe in Warriewood (26 June 2019). Fainu’s younger brother, Sione, has already represented NSW at junior State of Origin level and Fittler wanted to know if Manase - a Tongan international - had similar representative ambitions. NSW coach Brad Fittler says rising Manly star Manase Fainu has 'something different'. So Fittler invited Fainu and his parents to The Kanteen to discuss football, life and the prospect of wearing the sky blue jersey in the future. “He’s definitely got a good future, he just seems to have something different, without a doubt,” Fittler said.

 
Fainu is a star in the making.
Was a star in the making.
The effect of the long lay-off on his own development as a player won't really be known until he's back playing footy.
I'm sure we're all hoping, but I'm certainly not assuming he walks straight back in as the player he was when we last saw him.
Some players who miss a couple of years playing NRL struggle to regain the same trajectory they were on. Will Hoppa became a top, consistent player but there are plenty who think he is a level below where he may have got to without time off for his Mormon mission.
 
Not saying he can't do it, just that for me it is a question mark. I hope you are spot on.
I had back to back knee recos and spent nearly 2 yrs off. When I came back from injury I remember thinking "holy ****" these boys hit hard, it actually hurts :) it took about 6 to 8 weeks back playing to feel comfortable again, it was more just getting used to the brutality of it again.
 
I had back to back knee recos and spent nearly 2 yrs off. When I came back from injury I remember thinking "holy ****" these boys hit hard, it actually hurts :) it took about 6 to 8 weeks back playing to feel comfortable again, it was more just getting used to the brutality of it again.
same with diving on grass, or catching a cricket ball after a long lay off. Both are easy if you do it often, but they bloody hurt once you get out of the habit.
 
I disagree and think Will Hoppa is a bad example. Going on a Morman mission for 2yrs is a little different than training full time (less of course his shoulder recovery).

Each to their own. I’m of the belief that players don’t lose natural skill whilst training full time, others clearly think different.
Your 100% right - been training for a while again now, the operation a success and will not take long to regain form.
 

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