Manase Fainu

[pjayz]

Read what I said again. I said clearly that we as humans cant know absolute truths. I didn't say they don't exist, I just said as humans we cant possibly know them, at least in our present state. It is an illusion to believe you can know an absolute truth. It is always perspective and personal perception. I am certainly not contradicting myself at all. Its quite clear. You can only know from the information available to you, and that is always limited. You can only know things provisionally. In a hundred years what you think is an absolute truth will possibly be viewed with amusement.

I read a lot about the progress of humanity. I was for example intrigued by Lord Kelvin in the late 19th century, probably the foremost physicist of his time (the Kelvin temperature scale starting at absolute zero was his development). A great inventor and thinker. Yet he claimed all major science was known and everything new was merely adding pieces to confirm what was already accepted. Yet within two decade Einstein turned physics on its head, radiation was discovered which was unknown to his time. He believed X Rays were fantasy and that no heavier than air man made object could fly. For him they were, despite his wonderful mind, absolutes. He was wrong. There have been so many examples in this belief of absolute knowledge of things that time and again result in egg on face. We cant know absolute truths. We can only move step by step in knowledge and hope our interpretation is valid.

Bear, I did read it properly and again I think you have missed my point. You have just made an absolute truth statement that we can’t know absolute truths. By making that statement you are saying that you know (absolute truth statement) that we can’t know absolute truths. But you are saying you do know an absolute truth - that we can’t know absolute truths. It is a self-defeating argument.

Anyway, we are probably boring others my friend.

 

[Bearfax]

Bear, I did read it properly and again I think you have missed my point. You have just made an absolute truth statement that we can’t know absolute truths. By making that statement you are saying that you know (absolute truth statement) that we can’t know absolute truths. But you are saying you do know an absolute truth - that we can’t know absolute truths. It is a self-defeating argument.

Anyway, we are probably boring others my friend.

You are playing semantics Pjayz. Saying there is unequivocally no absolute truths is like saying I cant know what tomorrow brings, that I cant know if I will win the lottery next week, that I cant know if Manly will win next year. Can you deny those assertions. What I am saying is no different. I'm saying I absolutely dont know, which is very different to saying I absolutely do know. I'm saying I'm totally open to the possibilities. You're saying something definitive and not open to alternative possibilities. Big difference.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

It's not so much as the witness evidence, it's just the plaintiff's testimony, apart from the parties concerned, because there are no witnesses, and naturally the plaintiff's testimony is going to sound damning.
I's going to be a case of who the jury believes, very difficult case, as all rape cases are.

Having sat on a rape case ( 21 years ago) I’d concur , in that case whilst there was zero doubt he did the act it ultimately came down to “ he said she said “.

She flirted with the man, went back to his house late at night and then claimed it was only to kiss and cuddle.

How do you put a man in goal for 7-10 years for that!!

 

[Budgie]

there was zero doubt he did the act
How do you put a man in goal for 7-10 years for that!!

For rape?

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

For rape?

Well they definitely had sex, that was never denied !

But did he force her ....??

He was acquitted based on the doubt in our minds !!

 

[Ryan]

Horrible subject. If he did what he's accused of, I hope karma gets him good and strong, and he gets it just the same in jail. If he's innocent, this will tar him for the rest of his days. No winners, no matter the outcome.

Also feel so bad for his pregnant partner who has stuck by him.

Talking about JDB here, btw

 

[Woodsie]

Some absolute truths ..

There are no square circles and Parra take it up the butt ...

 

[pjayz]

You are playing semantics Pjayz. Saying there is unequivocally no absolute truths is like saying I cant know what tomorrow brings, that I cant know if I will win the lottery next week, that I cant know if Manly will win next year. Can you deny those assertions. What I am saying is no different. I'm saying I absolutely dont know, which is very different to saying I absolutely do know. I'm saying I'm totally open to the possibilities. You're saying something definitive and not open to alternative possibilities. Big difference.

No bear, I am taking you at your word. You made an absolute statement that you know we can't know absolute truths. It is there to see my friend. I am not playing semantics. My point is this: you probably shouldn't warn others against making statements of absolute truth, by making an absolute truth statement.

I get where you are going with this, and in many respects I agree, and in other respects I don't. Not only do I believe absolute truths exist (which you aren't denying), but that we can at least know some absolute truths; namely, the truth that they exist. The consequences of denying this is illogical and implodes on itself. Therefore, one absolute truth we can hold to, is that absolute truths exist. The reason this is important, is because it allows for life to exist, in whatever belief system you ascribe to, however you may see life - which is different in some way or another for all of us. Even Descartes, who I disagree with on many things concluded: "I think, therefore I am"; that is to say: "we cannot doubt of our existence while we doubt". This doesn't translate into we can know all things in their fullest measure as finite humans - I am 100% with you on that.

One last thing bear. I have the utmost respect for you my friend. You are clearly a deep thinker and have had some incredible experiences in life, particularly in your previous line of work which I have found both intriguing and informative. So please don't take this as anything other than having a 'deep and meaningful' with a fellow Eagles tragic.

So Manase hey... he has a lot of explaining to do that is for sure (oh crap I've done it again ;-)

 

[Bearfax]

No bear, I am taking you at your word. You made an absolute statement that you know we can't know absolute truths. It is there to see my friend. I am not playing semantics. My point is this: you probably shouldn't warn others against making statements of absolute truth, by making an absolute truth statement.

I get where you are going with this, and in many respects I agree, and in other respects I don't. Not only do I believe absolute truths exist (which you aren't denying), but that we can at least know some absolute truths; namely, the truth that they exist. The consequences of denying this is illogical and implodes on itself. Therefore, one absolute truth we can hold to, is that absolute truths exist. The reason this is important, is because it allows for life to exist, in whatever belief system you ascribe to, however you may see life - which is different in some way or another for all of us. Even Descartes, who I disagree with on many things concluded: "I think, therefore I am"; that is to say: "we cannot doubt of our existence while we doubt". This doesn't translate into we can know all things in their fullest measure as finite humans - I am 100% with you on that.

One last thing bear. I have the utmost respect for you my friend. You are clearly a deep thinker and have had some incredible experiences in life, particularly in your previous line of work which I have found both intriguing and informative. So please don't take this as anything other than having a 'deep and meaningful' with a fellow Eagles tragic.

So Manase hey... he has a lot of explaining to do that is for sure (oh crap I've done it again ;-)

Mate I accept you have an alternative point of view and that is your right. I disagree with you on certain points but that's just an opinion based on my life's journey which is different from yours. We all see things differently to varying degrees. In a way that is how we learn, and just reinforces my belief that our journeys never end in seeking knowledge, much of which will be always out of our grasp. But that's the joy of the journey. To know everything would mean there is nothing further to live for. However I rarely take things personally mate, these days. Too old and crotchety to worry of such things. Something that I also had to learn with so many people I dealt with. Never take it personally. Almost always there are other issues unrelated to me that are in play.

 

[40 years an eagle]

For rape?

I'm 100% sure nobody here thinks raping someone isn't worth at least 10 years in jail Budge...the problem is PROVING rape.

Most cases end up being "he said, she said" and incredibly sadly, too many ( one is too many) guys get away with it because PROOF cannot be determined beyond a reasonable doubt.

A vile act and horrendous suffering for the victim which I couldn't even begin to comprehend.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I'm 100% sure nobody here thinks raping someone isn't worth at least 10 years in jail Budge...the problem is PROVING rape.

Most cases end up being "he said, she said" and incredibly sadly, too many ( one is too many) guys get away with it because PROOF cannot be determined beyond a reasonable doubt.

A vile act and horrendous suffering for the victim which I couldn't even begin to comprehend.

And that’s basically it !!

If the prosecution showed photos of a girl beaten up and whose wrists at been tied to a bed head then there’d be little argument , DNA would prove its person A, witness accounts of them leaving the bar arm in arm etc etc would assist and the injury photos would seal the deal BUT ( and everyone needs to put themselves , in a courtroom , as part of a jury ) when you simply have proof they had sex and one says he raped me and the other says she agreed to come back to my house for some hanky panky then as a juror you are compelled to not put some poor bastard in goal for 10 years for that!!

PS: this doesn’t relate to the current case but this isn’t easy for a jury unless it’s clear cut.

 

[Technical Coach]

Tech you have to be careful making definitive statements like that. If there is any absolute fact in life, I've never met one. I think Fainu would have made a significant improvement, but I also don't think that was the primary problem with the team and at best we might have made 8th at a pinch. But I know you are more intelligent than to make any statement that is so absolute. Absolutism is an illusion. Better to say you seriously doubt that he would have made a difference. That is a reasonable judgement

I don't fence sit, i call things as i see it with 100% confidence, i don't care if it comes across like an arrogant definitive statement if it is truly what i believe.

There are a few fan favourites that are over-rated in the squad at the moment but at least with these players i can see a tough side to them, Fainu looks like he takes short cuts effort wise.

As i stated previously if the "new" game is all about points without winning the grind yeah Fainu has a lot going for him, or if Manly become so dominant performance wise his attacking output will be of great value and defence will not matter much. Right now though we lack depth and toughness, that is why with a few injuries we drop off big time, there just isn't enough toughness and resilience sprinkled throughout the squad to remain competitive.

With a full "fresh" squad Manly are competitive that is about it at the moment.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I must admit I’m still a little confused at why Manly would re-sign Fainu ( no don’t worry I know all the reasoning) without trying to look at a decent hooker just in case the **** hits the fan.

And sorry I do not subscribe to Foran at 9 or a relatively inexperienced ( at NRL level ) Cade Cust being first choice.

And please don’t even go there with Croker.

Even IF recruitment knows more than we do it’s still the end of season 21 before the case will be heard so Fainu is a 2022 option at best.

Regardless of all the fresh young experienced or otherwise players we sign we are still very short of probably the key position on the field.

 

[Technical Coach]

C

Yeah definitely a combo of injuries but also loss of spine members. While you don’t rate Fainu though, I’m sure many of others Fainu was a bigger loss than Tom Trbojevic in many ways because even in the early rounds when our defense was solid like in 2019, we looked disjointed in attack and Danny Levi was proving he was more about himself than than committing to the structures of the team.

The only thing I disagree with is that you still seem to be running along with the narrative that Fainu is a bad defender. Unless our eyes deceived us he was competent (at a minimum). Give him a chance TC. Our middles were fine in 2019. Although I do think the periods where we do show weakness (especially in 2020), is when the big props get tired late in games. Hopefully AFB’s loss helps toward fixing that for the periods of games that matter most.

Competent at best----which is enough if Manly are a top performing team and problematic when you are a middle of the road side with injuries.

I'm not saying Levi was or is the answer but for the level Manly are at now he was a good 2nd year option---- for a more stable squad going into 2021.

Remember Levi was late to the squad and i feel would of performed much better in year 2 with a good off season and understanding the squad better.

The pressure to perform on a 1yr contract is immense so you start to over play things or play for yourself because you want to stand out and leave an impression to attract another contract.

I think Levi could of been a solid hooker at a value price using those extra funds saved to strengthen up the depth in other areas.

There was a good indicator of Levi's competitive nature in a game at Brookie, i recall Manly were in a go forward set hitting the short side and i think the centre or backrower(don't recall all the details) wasn't pushed up at the ad line after the play the ball to hit a hole and make good yardage----Levi let it be known to the player to stay alert and be on your toes and he was right---the player just stood back at depth with no urgency to take advantage.

Probably now the reply will be "If Fainu was at hooker all players will be alert and ready to push up along side him at the ad line because he is of such high quality"

 

[robbiea]

I must admit I’m still a little confused at why Manly would re-sign Fainu ( no don’t worry I know all the reasoning) without trying to look at a decent hooker just in case the **** hits the fan.

And sorry I do not subscribe to Foran at 9 or a relatively inexperienced ( at NRL level ) Cade Cust being first choice.

And please don’t even go there with Croker.

Even IF recruitment knows more than we do it’s still the end of season 21 before the case will be heard so Fainu is a 2022 option at best.

Regardless of all the fresh young experienced or otherwise players we sign we are still very short of probably the key position on the field.

Have we bought Wayde Egan ??

 

[eaglebuzz]

Anyway, we are probably boring others my friend.

I can confirm the veracity of this statement.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Have we bought Wayde Egan ??

Where did you hear that one ???

 

[40 nil]

Appears Isaac Luke without a club. A useful signing for the Sea Eagles or not? Don't think his 2020 form was very impressive.

 

[The Who]

Appears Isaac Luke without a club. A useful signing for the Sea Eagles or not? Don't think his 2020 form was very impressive.

A few years ago, yes. But not now; his time has passed.
Are any of the 'second-tier' hookers mentioned as targets for us any better than the bloke we just fired, Danny Levi? I think not.

 

[Mitch]

Have we bought Wayde Egan ??

I saw he was in some Instagram shots with some of the players last week, but he was also close with Waddell etc last off season, so I don’t believe it is the case mate.