Manase Fainu

Mataiforerver said:
Serious?

He was lapping Api - basically everyone on here said that. Api was hampering our attack with poor service - Fainu started our attack.

He was that much more effective in attack than Api. Maybe a factor of rotation as well. But I remember watching every game going 'just get Fainu on', then he would come on and completely change momentum.

He is one of those players that has so much time with the ball. Not comparing him to these guys at all but theres some of those freak just real footy players ,i.e. your Johns / JT, that have that time with the ball where they just pick every right option. Cleary had it somewhat this year. His running game added a threat and he just perfectly timed his passes, created go forward through running e.g.

He comes back we move up minimum 4 teams in the ladder. His inclusion would still maybe make us scrape the 8. There is a huge difference between a first grade hooker and Danny Levi and Lachlan Croker, let alone a hooker that was a form one of the comp last year.

Bring in Tom and Dylan with fitness, we probably scrape the 4 (or fight for it).

Its concerning the lack of signings but still fully fit with luck we can beat anyone. We just need a couple of budget shrewd signings: 2. Saab 12. Garner 18. Backup Hooker (literally anyone proven in case the Cade / Foran experiment doesn't go well)

We don't need a prop - Paseka is ready to step up, so is Olakau'atu into a starting bench role and more minutes. Saddler deserves some game time. S.Fainu will probably be our starting prop in a couple years or so, may as well start thinking about him too. K Titmuss looks up to it physically.

Saab would be huge - added point of attack --> the air. Something we missed a lot this year.
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As i have stated a million times Fainu would of made zero difference this year with all the injuries, if anything he would of been shown up defensively.

Fainu's positives come out when the team is at full strength and going forward not in an average squad losing field position and racking up tackling numbers.

As per normal people here just focus on the attacking elements of his game like it is the be all and end all.

Look i'm no big Api fan and i have mentioned several times now over the years about his poor passing from dummy half----but in saying that Api was not utilized well under Des or shown much confidence in him to bring out his best.

I stated before last season started that Api will work wonders at Penrith on a faster track and from a coach that has belief in him----not Mr Hindsight here that is for sure.

The GF also showed up Api's limitations being his predictable short passing game from dummy half that was not expansive enough, crisp enough or had enough variety----an area Fainu needs to address also.

When injuries hit our squad big time again don't expect Fainu to be keeping the middle tight and working his ass off in defence that is for sure.
 
Bearfax said:
Seems to be a fetish for 'Yesterday's Hero', someone who has hardly set the world alight and been shown the door by two clubs and let go by the third, having played little more than half a season, and generally less, for the past five years, and is somehow seen as the messiah returned to save us at 5/8. I must be seeing a different player.

And to risk a naturally gifted 5/8 in Schuster, aged 19, who in 60 minutes showed more skill than anything we have had since Foran left, and is ready and a potential star player himself, bewilders me. As said Foran was 19 when he took the 5/8 spot from a champion in Lyon, who was pushed to the centre. Sensible move as was shown. Back at 5/8 with Schuster in the wings, not a sensible move in my opinion.

Part time as hooker? Yep that could work for Foran. 5/8? May see some good games, and he might surprise but risking the ante on two of a kind when there's a probable royal flush across the table is very risky. The work load has already shown in the past he'll struggle, and suddenly we are in trouble again. Why risk the potential 'Today's Hero' on a falling star
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This is for you @Bearfax . I can’t get the bloody song outta my head now.

 
Technical Coach said:
As i have stated a million times Fainu would of made zero difference this year with all the injuries, if anything he would of been shown up defensively.

Fainu's positives come out when the team is at full strength and going forward not in an average squad losing field position and racking up tackling numbers.

As per normal people here just focus on the attacking elements of his game like it is the be all and end all.

Look i'm no big Api fan and i have mentioned several times now over the years about his poor passing from dummy half----but in saying that Api was not utilized well under Des or shown much confidence in him to bring out his best.

I stated before last season started that Api will work wonders at Penrith on a faster track and from a coach that has belief in him----not Mr Hindsight here that is for sure.

The GF also showed up Api's limitations being his predictable short passing game from dummy half that was not expansive enough, crisp enough or had enough variety----an area Fainu needs to address also.

When injuries hit our squad big time again don't expect Fainu to be keeping the middle tight and working his ass off in defence that is for sure.
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Tech you have to be careful making definitive statements like that. If there is any absolute fact in life, I've never met one. I think Fainu would have made a significant improvement, but I also don't think that was the primary problem with the team and at best we might have made 8th at a pinch. But I know you are more intelligent than to make any statement that is so absolute. Absolutism is an illusion. Better to say you seriously doubt that he would have made a difference. That is a reasonable judgement
 
Bearfax said:
Tech you have to be careful making definitive statements like that. If there is any absolute fact in life, I've never met one. I think Fainu would have made a significant improvement, but I also don't think that was the primary problem with the team and at best we might have made 8th at a pinch. But I know you are more intelligent than to make any statement that is so absolute. Absolutism is an illusion. Better to say you seriously doubt that he would have made a difference. That is a reasonable judgement
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So you are absolutely sure that absolutism is an illusion? Sounds like an absolutism bear.
 
pjayz said:
So you are absolutely sure that absolutism is an illusion? Sounds like an absolutism bear.
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Yes I am absolutely sure absolutism in everything but mathematics is an illusion for humans. Its the only thing I can be absolutely sure of, just as I can be absolutely sure I cant know today what will happen tomorrow and whether I go on living. I'm not saying there is not an absolute truth, I'm saying for we humans it is unattainable, at least in our present state. Otherwise we would be gods and therefore omniscient. In reality we are simians barely starting preschool on the journey of discovery, and that journey is what makes living worthwhile.

We all have different perspectives on everything and that exists because we each have different journeys in life and are therefore inevitably biased by our individual genetic makeup, conditionings and experience. Its all about perception, and perception stains reality with our own slant. Even what we see is an illusion brought about by natures development of three nodules in our eyes that interpret visual wavelengths in a manner so that we can interpret the world for survival. But it isn't as we see it, its merely how our mind has been developed to interpret that information. In fact its just a small parcel of energy we perceive on the huge EM spectrum.. Its all about perception and that's merely our individual interpretation of reality, not what reality truly is.
 
Technical Coach said:
As i have stated a million times Fainu would of made zero difference this year with all the injuries, if anything he would of been shown up defensively.

Fainu's positives come out when the team is at full strength and going forward not in an average squad losing field position and racking up tackling numbers.

As per normal people here just focus on the attacking elements of his game like it is the be all and end all.

Look i'm no big Api fan and i have mentioned several times now over the years about his poor passing from dummy half----but in saying that Api was not utilized well under Des or shown much confidence in him to bring out his best.

I stated before last season started that Api will work wonders at Penrith on a faster track and from a coach that has belief in him----not Mr Hindsight here that is for sure.

The GF also showed up Api's limitations being his predictable short passing game from dummy half that was not expansive enough, crisp enough or had enough variety----an area Fainu needs to address also.

When injuries hit our squad big time again don't expect Fainu to be keeping the middle tight and working his ass off in defence that is for sure.
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Yeah definitely a combo of injuries but also loss of spine members. While you don’t rate Fainu though, I’m sure many of others Fainu was a bigger loss than Tom Trbojevic in many ways because even in the early rounds when our defense was solid like in 2019, we looked disjointed in attack and Danny Levi was proving he was more about himself than than committing to the structures of the team.

The only thing I disagree with is that you still seem to be running along with the narrative that Fainu is a bad defender. Unless our eyes deceived us he was competent (at a minimum). Give him a chance TC. Our middles were fine in 2019. Although I do think the periods where we do show weakness (especially in 2020), is when the big props get tired late in games. Hopefully AFB’s loss helps toward fixing that for the periods of games that matter most.
 
eaglebuzz said:
I don't think De Bellend is going to do Fainu any favours. The witness testimony against him sounds pretty damning.
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It's not so much as the witness evidence, it's just the plaintiff's testimony, apart from the parties concerned, because there are no witnesses, and naturally the plaintiff's testimony is going to sound damning.
I's going to be a case of who the jury believes, very difficult case, as all rape cases are.
 
Bearfax said:
Yes I am absolutely sure absolutism in everything but mathematics is an illusion for humans. Its the only thing I can be absolutely sure of, just as I can be absolutely sure I cant know today what will happen tomorrow and whether I go on living. I'm not saying there is not an absolute truth, I'm saying for we humans it is unattainable, at least in our present state. Otherwise we would be gods and therefore omniscient. In reality we are simians barely starting preschool on the journey of discovery, and that journey is what makes living worthwhile.

We all have different perspectives on everything and that exists because we each have different journeys in life and are therefore inevitably biased by our individual genetic makeup, conditionings and experience. Its all about perception, and perception stains reality with our own slant. Even what we see is an illusion brought about by natures development of three nodules in our eyes that interpret visual wavelengths in a manner so that we can interpret the world for survival. But it isn't as we see it, its merely how our mind has been developed to interpret that information. In fact its just a small parcel of energy we perceive on the huge EM spectrum.. Its all about perception and that's merely our individual interpretation of reality, not what reality truly is.
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Bear, with great respect, you have contradicted your own argument. By your reasoning, your own interpretation based on your presuppositions have led you to believe that there is absolutely no absolutism outside of mathematics - that is an antimony. You are affirming an absolute of the human condition in order to dispel absolutism in the human condition. It should lead you to the conclusion that there is absolutely, absolute truths. The points and examples you make are referring to matters of perfection or omniscience - not whether absolutism is real. Absolutism is not a condition to be attained, it either exists or doesn't regardless of our abilities. If you are really saying that we cannot know all things and cannot be all things then I am with you; however, the belief that absolute truths don't exist is the illusion. Whether you are religious or a person of science - both rely on absolutism to be a reality; otherwise everything is transient and pointless. This would include this conversation as nothing we say or do is actually happening on any level - not just on a particular perceived level - but on any level, otherwise you are saying that there is absolutely something happening, we just can't know what it really is - that is still an absolute truth statement.
 
pjayz said:
Bear, with great respect, you have contradicted your own argument. By your reasoning, your own interpretation based on your presuppositions have led you to believe that there is absolutely no absolutism outside of mathematics - that is an antimony. You are affirming an absolute of the human condition in order to dispel absolutism in the human condition. It should lead you to the conclusion that there is absolutely, absolute truths. The points and examples you make are referring to matters of perfection or omniscience - not whether absolutism is real. Absolutism is not a condition to be attained, it either exists or doesn't regardless of our abilities. If you are really saying that we cannot know all things and cannot be all things then I am with you; however, the belief that absolute truths don't exist is the illusion. Whether you are religious or a person of science - both rely on absolutism to be a reality; otherwise everything is transient and pointless. This would include this conversation as nothing we say or do is actually happening on any level - not just on a particular perceived level - but on any level, otherwise you are saying that there is absolutely something happening, we just can't know what it really is - that is still an absolute truth statement.
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That is way beyond my level of comprehension 🙂 I think I understand but had to google a few words haha
 
pjayz said:
Bear, with great respect, you have contradicted your own argument. By your reasoning, your own interpretation based on your presuppositions have led you to believe that there is absolutely no absolutism outside of mathematics - that is an antimony. You are affirming an absolute of the human condition in order to dispel absolutism in the human condition. It should lead you to the conclusion that there is absolutely, absolute truths. The points and examples you make are referring to matters of perfection or omniscience - not whether absolutism is real. Absolutism is not a condition to be attained, it either exists or doesn't regardless of our abilities. If you are really saying that we cannot know all things and cannot be all things then I am with you; however, the belief that absolute truths don't exist is the illusion. Whether you are religious or a person of science - both rely on absolutism to be a reality; otherwise everything is transient and pointless. This would include this conversation as nothing we say or do is actually happening on any level - not just on a particular perceived level - but on any level, otherwise you are saying that there is absolutely something happening, we just can't know what it really is - that is still an absolute truth statement.
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Intellectualism is the great paradox. In an attempt to sound sophisticated and enlightened, the direct opposite starts to happen as an overly complicated argument becomes convoluted and nonsensical.
 
Snake said:
Intellectualism is the great paradox. In an attempt to sound sophisticated and enlightened, the direct opposite starts to happen as an overly complicated argument becomes convoluted and nonsensical.
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I think we all would agree, Bear included, that we are finite and limited in our understanding about all things. My working theory is that the off season following on from a disastrous 13th place finish absolutely results in discussions about anything to distract us from the reality that we completely sucked!

Come on Des and co, save us from ourselves and tell us Staggs has signed, even the untested Saab so we can place the weight of Silvertail's expectations on his shoulders. What about the Rooster backrower...something... hello...Desmond??!!
 
Peter C said:
It's not so much as the witness evidence, it's just the plaintiff's testimony, apart from the parties concerned, because there are no witnesses, and naturally the plaintiff's testimony is going to sound damning.
I's going to be a case of who the jury believes, very difficult case, as all rape cases are.
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Yes I meant the plaintiff. But it is true it will be a difficult one to iron out. Seems to me like one of those things that started consensual then got ugly as it unfolded. If I had to guess...
 
pjayz said:
Bear, with great respect, you have contradicted your own argument. By your reasoning, your own interpretation based on your presuppositions have led you to believe that there is absolutely no absolutism outside of mathematics - that is an antimony. You are affirming an absolute of the human condition in order to dispel absolutism in the human condition. It should lead you to the conclusion that there is absolutely, absolute truths. The points and examples you make are referring to matters of perfection or omniscience - not whether absolutism is real. Absolutism is not a condition to be attained, it either exists or doesn't regardless of our abilities. If you are really saying that we cannot know all things and cannot be all things then I am with you; however, the belief that absolute truths don't exist is the illusion. Whether you are religious or a person of science - both rely on absolutism to be a reality; otherwise everything is transient and pointless. This would include this conversation as nothing we say or do is actually happening on any level - not just on a particular perceived level - but on any level, otherwise you are saying that there is absolutely something happening, we just can't know what it really is - that is still an absolute truth statement.
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Read what I said again. I said clearly that we as humans cant know absolute truths. I didn't say they don't exist, I just said as humans we cant possibly know them, at least in our present state. It is an illusion to believe you can know an absolute truth. It is always perspective and personal perception. I am certainly not contradicting myself at all. Its quite clear. You can only know from the information available to you, and that is always limited. You can only know things provisionally. In a hundred years what you think is an absolute truth will possibly be viewed with amusement.

I read a lot about the progress of humanity. I was for example intrigued by Lord Kelvin in the late 19th century, probably the foremost physicist of his time (the Kelvin temperature scale starting at absolute zero was his development). A great inventor and thinker. Yet he claimed all major science was known and everything new was merely adding pieces to confirm what was already accepted. Yet within two decade Einstein turned physics on its head, radiation was discovered which was unknown to his time. He believed X Rays were fantasy and that no heavier than air man made object could fly. For him they were, despite his wonderful mind, absolutes. He was wrong. There have been so many examples in this belief of absolute knowledge of things that time and again result in egg on face. We cant know absolute truths. We can only move step by step in knowledge and hope our interpretation is valid.
 
Not sure if this is the correct thread for this pic so just taking a punt really...
1604709505956.png
 
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