Liam knight

[Bearfax]

Hi Ryan. Might as well have my bit of a say. Looks like you're a committed supporter who has tried to do much for the club. Well done.

But mate when it comes to young blokes coming through the ranks, working damned hard to become among the cream, it is understandable, especially in this day and age when Rugby League is now virtually a full time job, that they will seek to get the best deal for themselves that they can. They have a small window of opportunity as Rex pointed out, and in the end while they enjoy the game and no doubt the adulation, the hard facts are that decisions about their future are business decisions and quite frankly none of the supporters business.

Years ago when players held a primary source of income in employment away from the game, the question of sticking with a club if you were wanted, was probably much easier. Today it isnt. Knight has to do first and foremost what is best for him and his future family. That big money will only be there for 10-15 years. And negotiations behind the scenes are par for the course these days, and as you saw with Will Hopoate, or even Des Hasler, and more recently Toovey, it can hit you unexpectedly. But that is their right and that is business. We dont own them. And quite frankly we dont really know the details of negotiations.

The question of loyalty may have been a major issue decades ago. But today loyalty, both ways from the clubs and the players point of view, only goes as far as whether the club has a place for you and whether they are paying what you think you're worth. Mercenary maybe, but is that any different from any employment decisions in business. And League is very much a business, and Liam has to make the wise decision for HIS future, not ours.

 

[Loobs]

Never begrudge someone taking the money. Everyone here would do it any and every day and those who say they wouldn't are full of ****. As has been said, league is a small window of earning potential. Take what you can get and use your head and not your heart.

You also can't compare NRL contracts with American sports because they have a signing period that opens at the end of the season. If someone is not going to resign with their team, the fact they are willing to become an unrestricted free agent says everything about their intention. So in a lot of cases their teams will try to trade them away before that happens to avoid losing them for nothing. In the NRL on the other hand, you can sign during the season before which is why it is destabilising. That aspect of NRL contracts is just ****ing stupid. Like an NRL player is too precious to sign a deal AND arrange a cross town or interstate move during the same off season.

Anyway, here's hoping Liam turns into a top talent here but good luck to him if he gets the godfather offer somewhere else...

 

[Ryan]

Here is what I said that got you riled:



Having paper-thin ego issues again Ryan? Wanting to make this all about you? Wanting to brag?

There's only two options here:

1. That description doesn't fit you
If so, there's no reason at all to get offended.

2. The description does fit you
i.e. You are arguing that "players should not negotiate hard in their tiny window of opportunity to earn a living out of the game". THAT is what I said.

In which case we can discuss the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands you've given out of your personal bank account, no strings attached to match exactly what you think the players should be doing. If you've done that we can discuss non-zero credibility levels.

Not sure what your on about? Hard to hear you from behind your dias.

If all you can do in a debate, is focus on the poster, rather than the topic at hand, it shows how little quality depth you have about you? Sorry. Like I say, it's Habib Eagle like.

Now, if you care to debate the topic rather than obsessing about me, I'm yet to hear your opinion about the etiquette in and around contract negotiation.

Ok, I'm sure you'll traul more dribble about me and/or my ego, and frankly, your obsession is quite flattering, so I don't know if I'm wasting my time here.

As I said to @maxta while I shouldn't have made it specific about Liam, my point stands.

Some players are extremely professional, private, specific and driven when renegotiating a contract. No one begrudges a player getting as much leverage as they can to get a top dollar, but where is the line in the sand?

Is it open season now, when all the players just portray themselves as non committed to the jersey employment wise, so a club is scared into offering as big a dollar, as fast as possible - forget the goodwill (customers).

If so, God help the sport. And I hope you don't complain when we are being circled by the media, with unhappy players openly admitting they are unhappy here and/or are looking elsewhere, because you have condoned it all in this thread by saying, they have family and or friends who may read the negative comments. LOL.

Try, without focusing on me (if your capable) to respond and add value to the debate.

I dont begrudge anyone a buck. But for the love of God, handle the negotiations with cooth and etiquette, and that means to ALL the stakeholders (club, fans, sponsors etc).

Wonder how Kaspersky felt hearing Foran didn't "feel" like playing for us at times. Pissed me off to the point of considering not renewing. But I remembered guys like Beaver, King & others that were only ever 100% positive and commited to the club.

 

[Rex]

You write that waffle, once again totally diverting from the point raised. It's a pattern Ryan. And when losing the argument you consistently - always - resort to troll ratings. Just like Habib. Predictable Ryan. Childish really.

 

[Ryan]

Hi Ryan. Might as well have my bit of a say. Looks like you're a committed supporter who has tried to do much for the club. Well done.

But mate when it comes to young blokes coming through the ranks, working damned hard to become among the cream, it is understandable, especially in this day and age when Rugby League is now virtually a full time job, that they will seek to get the best deal for themselves that they can. They have a small window of opportunity as Rex pointed out, and in the end while they enjoy the game and no doubt the adulation, the hard facts are that decisions about their future are business decisions and quite frankly none of the supporters business.

Years ago when players held a primary source of income in employment away from the game, the question of sticking with a club if you were wanted, was probably much easier. Today it isnt. Knight has to do first and foremost what is best for him and his future family. That big money will only be there for 10-15 years. And negotiations behind the scenes are par for the course these days, and as you saw with Will Hopoate, or even Des Hasler, and more recently Toovey, it can hit you unexpectedly. But that is their right and that is business. We dont own them. And quite frankly we dont really know the details of negotiations.

The question of loyalty may have been a major issue decades ago. But today loyalty, both ways from the clubs and the players point of view, only goes as far as whether the club has a place for you and whether they are paying what you think you're worth. Mercenary maybe, but is that any different from any employment decisions in business. And League is very much a business, and Liam has to make the wise decision for HIS future, not ours.

Thx for being respectful in your response Bear. Ask you this in reply though:

Don't know what industry you work in, but just say you worked for Holden as an area manager. The particular Holden dealer you work for always gets media attention. Your also in a scheme, where you progress through the industry really quickly.

Ford approach you, and want you to work for them. How do you handle that decision, while you still mull over the decision?

Do you tell your customers, the media, your employers that at times you don't want to be at Holden, or you tell all those stakeholders your talking to other potential employers, OR do you handle it discreetly, quietly and quickly, so that the situation is handled with tgoughts towards customers, your current employer and things.

It's different in footy, I know, but the premise is the same, as are the stakeholders...because without these, there is no game.

The NRL still play the, without the fans, there.is no game.

As someone else really wisely said in this thread, the contract strategy in tje NRL is a debacle, but it is, what it is I guess.

 

[Bearfax]

Ryan you seem to think that these players owe us something. They dont.

Their decisions about whether to stay or dont stay in a club only involves two elements. The first is whether the club wants the player to stay. The second is whether the player wants to stay. Most players will usually want to stay with the club they grew up with, but hey look at how many players in the Manly squad who grew up somewhere else.

The market determines whether a player stays at a club or not more often these days. If the player wants to stay, they're not going to stay if one club offers $200,000 a season and your club offers $50,000 a season. Would you stay even though you would like to. Usually if the amount offered by the home team is close, players will stay, because of mateship, familiarity, maybe even family.

But whether we want a player to stay or not, it really has nothing to do with we the supporters. The market is the primary factor. And we just have to accept that, even though we may feel disappointment. You want to take it up with someone, I would suggest the Penns, Fulton and Barrett. They'll do their best to get what they want within the limitations of the cap. And they cant keep everyone. If they dont offer Liam something within the ballpark of other offers, he'll go...I would.

 

[Ryan]

You write that waffle, once again totally diverting from the point raised. It's a pattern Ryan. And when losing the argument you consistently - always - resort to troll ratings. Just like Habib. Predictable Ryan. Childish really.

You're obsessing mate. All about me again. Hope you don't have a dark quiet room in your house all dedicated to me with pictures and things. Should I be concerned?

Even after requesting a value add to the debate, you still are infatuated.

The fact that your incapable of debating the topic at hand in a healthy way like most others have done here, is - well - troll like, hence troll.

Move on. Actually, scratch that, there is an easier way to deal with your osbsession. A mave said, ignored.

 

[manlyfan76]

You write that waffle, once again totally diverting from the point raised. It's a pattern Ryan. And when losing the argument you consistently - always - resort to troll ratings. Just like Habib. Predictable Ryan. Childish really.

Couldn't help myself Rex.

 

[Pittwater Legend]

You guys will be hugging it out when we smash the Dogs this Friday

 

[Bearfax]

In answer to your Ford, Holden issue, I can tell you I was in a position where I was employed for a long time in one field and was offered a position in another. I did not discuss it with my employer. I did talk with a few close friends. It was my decision, no one elses and at the time I was considering a change. I wanted to be free to consider the alternatives without pressure. In the end I decided not to accept the offer because I felt I was gaining more from the first position. Loyalty had nothing to do with it. There was even an increase in salary offered. But, totally selfishly I decided to stay, and told few that the offer had been made. You and this forum are now among the few who know. You see it was MY decision and mine alone (I was no longer married or with children so that wasnt an issue)

 

[Rex]

You're obsessing mate. All about me again. Hope you don't have a dark quiet room in your house all dedicated to me with pictures and things. Should I be concerned?

Even after requesting a value add to the debate, you still are infatuated.

The fact that your incapable of debating the topic at hand in a healthy way like most others have done here, is - well - troll like, hence troll.

Move on. Actually, scratch that, there is an easier way to deal with your osbsession. A mave said, ignored.

Nice hissy fit Ryan. Keep it up you're funny.

 

[Frank]

Here's a question. Not particularly directed at anybody. How much discretion and loyalty was shown to over a dozen players over the last 6 months? Some still had a year or two to run on their contacts. And what about the coach who is also a club legend and the outrageous way he was treated and made a fool of in the media.

And people complain that a player is talking to other clubs. Give me a break.

 

[Ryan]

In answer to your Ford, Holden issue, I can tell you I was in a position where I was employed for a long time in one field and was offered a position in another. I did not discuss it with my employer. I did talk with a few close friends. It was my decision, no one elses and at the time I was considering a change. I wanted to be free to consider the alternatives without pressure. In the end I decided not to accept the offer because I felt I was gaining more from the first position. Loyalty had nothing to do with it. There was even an increase in salary offered. But, totally selfishly I decided to stay, and told few that the offer had been made. You and this forum are now among the few who know. You see it was MY decision and mine alone (I was no longer married or with children so that wasnt an issue)

Thanks for sharing mate. In my industry, it's the same, but I'd say it would be tougher for a footy player, because these are also their social circle.

But you see what I mean, you wouldnt tell your employer, or your customers you were thinking of leaving because of the ultimate added pressure.

If I'd read a quote that the sole focus was Manly, playing 1st grade, and his management group is sorting all the business side of things out, there's absolutely no angst.

I admit im a bit more sensative given the complete breakdown of the club and debacle off the park we saw for the past two years.

Thanks the stars the footy was still very good. Even though we just missed the finals, the way we came home was sensational.

Why add pressure to themselves suggesting they are talking to a number of clubs?

Anyways, I just hope we have lots of pride in our jersey, and we see one solid, together ship heading towards a premiership. Honestly, without getting my hopes up, I actually think we can do itm

 

[Ryan]

Here's a question. Not particularly directed at anybody. How much discretion and loyalty was shown to over a dozen players over the last 6 months? Some still had a year or two to run on their contacts. And what about the coach who is also a club legend and the outrageous way he was treated and made a fool of in the media.

And people complain that a player is talking to other clubs. Give me a break.

Frank, I absolutely adore Ballin mate. I think what the club did to him, and Toovey, and Hiku was an absolute disgrace.

To answer: It goes both ways. Players AND clubs should be more dilligent with the way they treat each other.

I want more Hindy, Beaver, Lockyer types in the game. I hope the club give Bullet (should he want it) as long as he likes.

I get what your saying mate, but I think both need to be better. Hope that answers it.

I'll never forget what happened to Matty Ballin (apart from maybe Krillich) the best hooker we have ever had (that's another debate all together though) .. I probably think Ballin. Sedaris was pretty good as well.

 

[Rex]

So Liam is 21 this year and from the Entrance (so trusting like a country boy) and a reporter asks him about rumours.

Does he lie? He gets damned for lying
Does he avoid the question? He gets damned for being evasive
Does he hide the truth but not lie? He gets damned for being deceitful
Does he tell the truth? He gets damned for not being loyal

There is really no right answer. My preference is they just tell the truth. Like a real person does.

If it upsets me that he's talking to other clubs, and I fret and sweat about this - then that's an opportunity for me to bloody grow up!

 

[double hoops]

WTF is going on. Lads. It's time to stick that supporters word back into this forum. We got a few games to win Friday. The off season is almost over it is time to cheer. And that includes one Liam Knight.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Gee I hope Knight actually amounts to something after all the hand wringing, brow beating, chest thumping and dummy spitting that has gone on in this thread. It'd be a shame to waste it all.

 

[Briza]

@Dan can we please clean this **** up, I truly am tired of opening a thread hoping for some interesting news/articles on relevant subject matter.
Only to find page upon page of grown adult's acting like petulant children, if I'd wanted this I'd have stayed on FRF.
I appreciate so much on this Forum, but am close to ceasing my contribution.

 

[winnyason]

@Dan can we please clean this **** up, I truly am tired of opening a thread hoping for some interesting news/articles on relevant subject matter.
Only to find page upon page of grown adult's acting like petulant children, if I'd wanted this I'd have stayed on FRF.
I appreciate so much on this Forum, but am close to ceasing my contribution.

Agree this makes us all look like fools. Liam dad unlike most players parents came on here and being bagged. People have crossed the line. Where all on here as fans pastime.when it's his income and he has a short shelf life then good luck to him.
Loyalty is dead if it was my son do what's best for you not the raving fans.

 

[TOCC]

Agree this makes us all look like fools. Liam dad unlike most players parents came on here and being bagged. People have crossed the line. Where all on here as fans pastime.when it's his income and he has a short shelf life then good luck to him.
Loyalty is dead if it was my son do what's best for you not the raving fans.

Well said. He is only a kid and like any parent you do what's best. It's a business