keep politics out of the game

[chuckee]

Thanks @Woodsie Personally, I'm not that interested in @chuckee 's left nut (or his right one for that matter) but, as I have argued in a previous post, human history over the past 60,000 -70,000 years would demonstrate that @chuckee 's argument in relation to rainbow symbolism is erroneous. Lets just look at the Dreamtime meaning of the Rainbow Serpent to our First Nations people over that time. Are you seriously arguing that historical and traditional rainbow symbolism is now invalid due to its resonance in one part of our community today?

Come on fella, we know what rainbow was intended on the jersey. Let’s not skip around it and include previous instances where a rainbow was used and the message they portrayed.
Anyhoo, everyone’s got their opinions on the matter. Who’s right? Who’s wrong?
But the can of worms has been opened. That is the fact that social issues should not be politicised in sports. Exhibit A.
Everyone here is a fan of the club, we all are United by Manly. We don’t need to divide us with issues that have nothing to do with rugby league.

 

[Eagles4Life]

Everyone here is a fan of the club, we all are United by Manly. We don’t need to divide us with issues that have nothing to do with rugby league.

I agree with you @chuckee We are all "United by Manly" (for better or for worse) As I said before I respect your right to your opinion. I don't agree with it on this issue, and I will keep making points that differ from it, but your opinion is as valid as mine, or anyone else's on this site.

 

[47MVEagle]

Perhaps you can help me by explaining exactly what “the deeper meaning of the rainbow” is?

@chuckee ?

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Well it is 2022 ... and I will bet chuckie's left nut .. that if you got a clipboard and a poll and stood a street corner and asked people what the rainbow symbolizes today .. the results would overwhelmingly support the excellent promotion of it by the LGBT community over the past decade ..

If you mean the rainbow flag symbol, you're probably right. But a plain old rainbow? Or a rainbow-coloured stripe on a footy jersey? Probably not.

The only people who looked at that Manly jersey as symbol of gay pride and nothing but gay pride were people who wanted to see it as a symbol of gay pride and nothing but gay pride so they could voice their opposition to it.

As for anyone looking at that Manly jersey and immediately seeing the wholesale corruption of innocent children at the hands of a cadre of pitchfork-wielding leftie perverts, well, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

 

[Woodsie]

Thanks @Woodsie Personally, I'm not that interested in @chuckee 's left nut (or his right one for that matter) but, as I have argued in a previous post, human history over the past 60,000 -70,000 years would demonstrate that @chuckee 's argument in relation to rainbow symbolism is erroneous. Lets just look at the Dreamtime meaning of the Rainbow Serpent to our First Nations people over that time. Are you seriously arguing that historical and traditional rainbow symbolism is now invalid due to its resonance in one part of our community today?

Okay ... exactly the same argument ... the swastika is an ancient symbol in the Asiatic area .. and in San script means .. "conclusive to wellbeing" ... it has been thus for more than 3000 years, and is still used today in Hindu architecture throughout the region ...

Yet ... you, and most of the rest of the world immediately connect it to Nazi Germany.

Whatever the rainbow symbol may have meant, the Gay movement has done an amassing job of making it their own throughout the western world in the last decade ...

 

[47MVEagle]

“Oh but the Hindu swastika”

 

[Woodsie]

The only people who looked at that Manly jersey as symbol of gay pride and nothing but gay pride were people who wanted to see it as a symbol of gay pride and nothing but gay pride so they could voice their opposition to it.

But ... nobody looked at it and thought .. isn't it wonderful that Manly is supporting suicide awareness . ... or thought I bet the disabled are thankful for the recognition .. or the women in league etc etc ..

 

[47MVEagle]

“Amassing”

 

[Jerry1]

I'm always very reluctant to write something on these more profound topics as I suffer from Conflict Avoidance Syndrome. I particularly dislike those who use a label such as lefty or woke or Mary or far right nut job as a simplistic way of supporting their view - whatever that might be. There is no doubt I fall very much into the so called "socially progressive" end of the spectrum but that doesn't mean I can't sometimes have concerns with how those views are argued. Would I support blockading bulldozers to save something like the Franklin River wilderness? - No doubt. Would I destroy a piece of art or culturally significant structure (that wasn't a monument to inhumanity)? - no I wouldn't. And so there is no absolute in my mind and hence I am conflicted to a certain degree.

Therefore my question @Jerry1 is - Do you respect my right for me to disagree with me?

As long as you don’t try to impose your will or values on me you can do whatever you like as long as it’s legal. Disagree with yourself all you like. You may wish to consider the views I post here are not necessarily mine and I also may not agree with them. One doth like stiruthing the pot.

 

[HK_Eagle]

“Oh but the Hindu swastika”

And tattooed on the poor children's' foreheads.... oh think of the children...

 

[47MVEagle]

But ... nobody looked at it and thought .. isn't it wonderful that Manly is supporting suicide awareness . ... or thought I bet the disabled are thankful for the recognition .. or the women in league etc etc ..

Speaking for everyone now, are you?

It became all about the rainbow because of the 7 players who refused to wear it.

Those of us with any intellectual honesty were aware it was also for the Women in League round & the inaugural Gotcha4Life cup between Manly & Easts.

 

[Seagles68]

As long as you don’t try to impose your will or values on me you can do whatever you like as long as it’s legal. Disagree with yourself all you like. You may wish to consider the views I post here are not necessarily mine and I also may not agree with them. One doth like stiruthing the pot.

Gotcha (I don't mean, caught you out) Life is so confusing..

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

So getting back on track do politics and sport mix ???

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

But ... nobody looked at it and thought .. isn't it wonderful that Manly is supporting suicide awareness . ... or thought I bet the disabled are thankful for the recognition .. or the women in league etc etc ..

No, they probably didn't, mate. And running that jersey during the Women in League round and the Gotcha4Life Cup game was thoughtless and regrettable. No argument there. But that's really an argument about the timing of the jersey.

None of our players who refused to wear it were objecting on the grounds that it would distract attention from other worthy causes and issues or that it wasn't inclusive enough. They were objecting because it was too inclusive, and… "faith".

 

[47MVEagle]

@chuckee ?

@chuckee nope, nothing, radio silence, crickets chirping, tumbleweeds…

 

[Eagles4Life]

Okay ... exactly the same argument ... the swastika is an ancient symbol in the Asiatic area .. and in San script means .. "conclusive to wellbeing" ... it has been thus for more than 3000 years, and is still used today in Hindu architecture throughout the region ...

Yet ... you, and most of the rest of the world immediately connect it to Nazi Germany.

Whatever the rainbow symbol may have meant, the Gay movement has done an amassing job of making it their own throughout the western world in the last decade ...

Thanks @Woodsie it's a pretty longbow to compare Hitler's use of the swastika to symbolise Aryan purity, to the LGBT's communites adoption of the Rainbow Flag to symbolise equality with the wider community.
One is essentially to symbolise exclusion, while the other is designed to symbolise inclusion.

On another point the Rainbow Flag that you reference doesn't actually form part of the Manly Jerseys design. I would argue that the multi-coloured stripes on the jersey have more in common with "some" Rainbow Serpent imagery, than the Rainbow Flag.

 

[Woodsie]

Thanks @Woodsie it's a pretty longbow to compare Hitler's use of the swastika to symbolise Aryan purity, to the LGBT's communites adoption of the Rainbow Flag to symbolise equality with the wider community.
One is essentially to symbolise exclusion, while the other is designed to symbolise inclusion.

On another point the Rainbow Flag that you reference doesn't actually form part of the Manly Jerseys design. I would argue that the multi-coloured stripes on the jersey have more in common with "some" Rainbow Serpent imagery, than the Rainbow Flag.

My only comparison is the fact that through common usage .. both symbols have come to represent a different meaning than the original ... in many ways the same as when somebody says they are gay

... today, you would immediately take that to mean they are homosexual ... not that they are happy, like we would have thought before the 80's ...

 

[highlandeagle]

Reproductive organs are so similar in a way that they don't matter, and sexuality is not the organ. In simple terms identity is an illusion. You think you are what you want others to think you are.
But really you are not "I" and your "sexuality" does not matter.

Wow. Only in a parallel universe

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

And part of this rainbow propaganda supports the claim of there being 500 genders. What a load of hogwash.

I ask the serious question to the few people who are in support of the jersey. Do you seriously think innocent children should be taught all of this information about sexual preferences and alterations? Please answer honestly.

I haven't read through yet so others may have given answers but firstly there are plenty of threads about jerseygate so not sure why you put your question in this one. Maybe the thread has morphed while I was gone.

Aside from that - you ask why 'innocent' kids should be taught about propaganda and hogwash? I don't know, who do you think would do that?
If 5yo Johnny says Mum why are therir rainbow coloured hoops on Manly's jersey she could say 'It's just to show everyone is welcome in the game (or whatever). If the kid is a bit older mum or dad can decide what to say, can't they? And by the time most kids are 11 or so they have internet access and probably know as much about this stuff as you and I might.
Not sure its an issue at all really, I doubt the club or NRL would put out a whole brochure explaining all that stuff, why would they.
By the way kids might not be so innocent as you may imagine, or at least not in some ways. Freud? Polymorphous perverse?
Whatever, it seems a non-issue to me, maybe that's just me.

 

[Spartan Eagle]

My only comparison is the fact that through common usage .. both symbols have come to represent a different meaning than the original ... in many ways the same as when somebody says they are gay

... today, you would immediately take that to mean they are homosexual ... not that they are happy, like we would have thought before the 80's ...

Hey @Woodsie stop wasting your time explaining things.. your post was extremely clear. It's frustrating when people deliberately go off tangent.