Kapow / Walker - there's a new sheriff!!

[Ryan]

@Batty and @Ryan there is sense to both your points .... my opinion is that as important as your 4/5 high price stars ... the real talent of putting your roster together is the choice of the 4/5 cheap work horses or up and coming stars to compliment them ....

Every team has there marque players .... the genius lies in the add ons ..... Jake, DCE, Kapow will do what they do, this year as they did last year .... it is what Waddell, Garrick, Elgey, GoJetSki, Suli and others do that will determine how our season goes .....

Des had the absolute nouse to turn those lesser players into stars no doubts. Guys like Hall, Bryant, Robertson & others. Gold mines.

I have faith it'll happen mate.

But we need to also keep those young superstars to build around in my opinion.

Kelly was also one of those unfortunately in my view, Very disappointed to lose him. He was a bright spot on our team.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Not every team has the financial backing to have say 21 top players and 9 for depth, Roosters, Storm and Broncos yes , the rest no.

I think the trouble we have had in recent years ( Thommo aside) is we haven’t been able to recruit fair to good depth players.

No we get the likes of Winterstein/ Perrett who wouldn’t make first grade at any other side.

With a a better year behind us, and a coach players might want to work with I’d expect the 2020 signings might look better!!

 

[Woodsie]

Think there's multiple discussions going on within this thread.

My original point was we don't need go forward (in my opinion) that costs us $900k. We will get a slight drop in metres from someone else who will cost a fraction of the price. Add to that the improvement predicted in Paseka, AFB etc I think we'd be fine and then have funds to spend elsewhere.

I'm all for hanging onto stars who are worth their value and adding to the success of the team but for me, Taupau is surplus to that.

So is Walker at his supposed +$600k price tag.

We have Turbo, Walker, DCE, Taupau, Jake, Thommo on approx half the salary cap. If it was me, I'd redistribute some of the lesser "value for money players" funds into our problem areas.

Completely agree with your suggestion about up and comers. I'd love to see a junior forward or a guy like Amone whos busting down the door to get a start ahead of paying $900k for a prop that plays 50mins a week.

My point has never been about releasing all our stars, it's not about releasing quality players, it's about value for money.

I don't think Taupau and Walker are adding value for money. Some might, I don't. That's the beauty of the forum, everyone has differing opinions. Each to their own.

On the point of Kapow it would be difficult to argue conclusively against you, and I agree in principle .... but in the case of Walker ... good dynamic strike centres are harder to come by than effective props ... if he settles in at centre this year I think Walker will justify his wage cheque ...

I know you only used Amone as an example, but it is interesting to note that he hasn't been snapped up by another club .. and latest report is he has re-signed with Blacktown .... is it a case of he is an outstanding reggie player but not a first grader ??? Old mate Cullen was in that category I think ....

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I don't think Taupau and Walker are adding value for money.

Batty I might well be misunderstanding your point ... but it sounds a little like the employees are great value Monday through Thursday as they don't get paid, but bad value on Friday because that is payday. Most workers won't mind which day is payday so long as there is a payday... (?)

As for a seamless transition were we to lose Taupau and replace him with Amone ... I completely disagree, even though I've said for a couple of years I like Amone as a development player. There is no substitute for experience up front, not to mention Taupau on his day is as dynamic as any forward in the comp.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

On the point of Kapow it would be difficult to argue conclusively against you, and I agree in principle .... but in the case of Walker ... good dynamic strike centres are harder to come by than effective props ... if he settles in at centre this year I think Walker will justify his wage cheque ...

I know you only used Amone as an example, but it is interesting to note that he hasn't been snapped up by another club .. and latest report is he has re-signed with Blacktown .... is it a case of he is an outstanding reggie player but not a first grader ??? Old mate Cullen was in that category I think ....

And my mate Leary!!

 

[Ryan]

Think there's multiple discussions going on within this thread.

My original point was we don't need go forward (in my opinion) that costs us $900k. We will get a slight drop in metres from someone else who will cost a fraction of the price. Add to that the improvement predicted in Paseka, AFB etc I think we'd be fine and then have funds to spend elsewhere.

I'm all for hanging onto stars who are worth their value and adding to the success of the team but for me, Taupau is surplus to that.

So is Walker at his supposed +$600k price tag.

We have Turbo, Walker, DCE, Taupau, Jake, Thommo on approx half the salary cap. If it was me, I'd redistribute some of the lesser "value for money players" funds into our problem areas.

Completely agree with your suggestion about up and comers. I'd love to see a junior forward or a guy like Amone whos busting down the door to get a start ahead of paying $900k for a prop that plays 50mins a week.

My point has never been about releasing all our stars, it's not about releasing quality players, it's about value for money.

I don't think Taupau and Walker are adding value for money. Some might, I don't. That's the beauty of the forum, everyone has differing opinions. Each to their own.

Mate, I won't give details, but you remember when the media were 100% and telling everyone Choc was on $900k with us those years ago?

Well, I can say as 100% fact they were all wrong. VERY wrong. He was on something nowhere NEAR that. Not only that, he was taking a haircut so that the team could remain together in the contract I saw.

The only parties that actually know a real contract values existence, is a player manager, the player themselves, a respective club, and the NRL. Aside from that, it's all guesswork.

Secondly, you'd be surprised mate how little DCE's contract would count towards our actual salary cap. Remember these exemptions:
X Marquee player allowance
X Long Serving Player allowance
X Motor Vehicle allowance
X Education allowances (many of these)
X Third Party arrangements

People are saying his contract is hurting us, but I personally believe (Cap Hit wise), he'd be almost average.

Remember, we offered Mitchell Pearce almost a mill to play here. Since then, we've lost guys like Myles, Lussick, Green, Brown and many others.

We've acquired unknowns.

Also remember, Trent Barrett said we've not been spent anywhere NEAR the cap the last quite a few years, so that $350k penalty is really nothing in terms of what we are actually spending anyway.

This isn't inclusive of a cap increase this coming season.

Also take into consideration Kelly was in hot demand, when he was re-upped, and we had that cap space, so there would have to be quite a huge amount available considering we've actually acquired no-one of note. Honestly, maybe Elgey had some options, but I don't think Hodko, Suli, Keppie, Waddell, Garrick and that other guy would get a run at any other club whatsoever.

Lastly, apart from around 5-6 players, this is a contract year for EVERYONE, which bodes well for us. Players want to go into party mode, then it's at their peril, as any complacency may cost them their entire NRL careers.

In my point of view, they then get what they deserve.

 

[Ryan]

Yep, 100% agree. I'm speculating that he is on $900k and has a backended deal. That's the article I read and that's what my entire point is in relation to.

If backended deals don't happen then move along....nothing to see here....

At the end of the day Ryan, I see Manlys weaknesses as game management and quality depth.
You may see our weaknesses as metres gained and forward attacking options.

How we would both restructure our sides to fix those weaknesses would be entirely different as a result.

We won't see eye to eye all the time but the discussion is fun nonetheless.

Agree mate, and even if we disagree, I do it with 100% respect and appreciation for your thoughts, input and opinion.

Weaknesses? Outside backs only in my opinion. Get that right, and with some quality, we are a force again. This base, is top 3-4 in my opinion:

01. Tom Trbojevic
02.
03.
04. Dylan Walker
05.
06. Kane Elgey
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Marty Taupau
09. Apisai Koroisou
10. Addin Fonua-Blake
11. Joel Thompson
12. Curtis Sironen
13. Jake Trbojevic

14.
15. Taniela Paseka
16. Kelepi Tanginoa
17. Corey Waddell

Those holes are our problem, because the rest of our squad is depth only (which kind of supports what you are saying).

It's those important try scoring holes, that make us bottom 4 in my view.

Taufua, Suli, Parker, Garrick, Funa, Anderson are reserve grade, at best, which is where they all should be.

 

[40 years an eagle]

Remember, we offered Mitchell Pearce almost a mill to play here. Since then, we've lost guys like Myles, Lussick, Green, Brown and many others.

We've acquired unknowns.
.

I said this last time you pointed this out:

We bought Thommo 600k, Hodko 300k-ish, upgraded Suli and then were hit with the 330k cap penalty.

There goes 1.2M+.

Just sayin'. I agree with the rest and guess we have something like 500k to spend and that we will yet sign someone of note and hope it's Will Hoppa to finish his career here at FB.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Facebook still going off about Marty wanting out!!

FMD there’s some gullible people in this world.

Mind you it might be true but I doubt it.

 

[Bearfax]

Agree about our backs although I would prefer wait and see how some go with the squad before labelling them destined for Ressies.

Agree with Taufua. He's passed his best unfortunately.
I have seen enough talent from fat Suli to expect a huge improvement under Des, Singe and Randall. He's a natural footballer with size and footwork.
Parker unfortunately isn't FG material.
Garrick, Funa and Anderson I would have to see in a FG setting with Manly before writing them off.

For me, our 2019 success hinges on how Elgey does his dance with DCE. If that gels, nothing else will matter......until we get injuries.

I think you're overlooking Albert Hopoate. He'll be 18 in 2019, and from the looks of him he's already big enough, fast enough and strong enough to cope with first grade. I think you'll find him in first grade at least by mid season. They didn't select him in the 27 so far identified to sit on the bench all season. Wing first and then I wouldn't be surprised if Turbo and Albert change positions, Turbo to centre, Hopa Jnr to full back. That would make the centre pairing of Turbo and Walker...worth waiting to see. Hopefully then Anderson will get a chance on the wing (he also covers full back well)

 

[Bearfax]

I was commenting on the players Ryan was leaving out of his lineup.

But in relation to Hoppa, he's never played against men. He's coming off an ACL. He may never be the same player again....who knows.

I hope you are wrong and the club doesn't plan on putting our $900k fullback to centre... It will seriously screw out salary cap until Turbos next deal, especially if we are pressured into then paying for Hoppa who would also be on FB money.

Personally, I think they'll play him on the wing in Ressies and see how he goes. Until that is known, I don't believe we will see him unless there are multiple injuries to our backline. And even then, he will enter first grade as a winger (that's if his knee holds up in Ressies).

Just my opinion though.

Fair enough Batty. You have good points there and certainly my comments are very 'what if' and on the optimistic side. It does very much depend on if he comes off his injury successfully, and generally at that age they do. And certainly they wouldn't rush the switch I suggested, at least during the 2019 season. But we've seen how effective Turbo is at centre and if young Hopa is anywhere near as good as is being suggested (better than his brothers and father), then he would be wasted in the long term anywhere other than at full back. The salary cap issue will be a problem, but that happens when you have effective X factor players in your side. Manly will just have to play it very carefully because if the Third Trbojevic and Schuster are anywhere near as good as they seem to be then Manly is likely to have to make several sacrifices to keep the 3 Ts, Schuster, Hopa and DCE.