Josh Aloiai, and membership discussions.

Ben said:
Was your mate under contract? That would be the difference.
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No, but there are so many instances in the "normal" world where people break their contracts. In high end sales it is outrageously common. There are always ways to wrangle out of a contract. Employers are faced with either matching the competitors offer, or having a disgruntled employee on hand.

Almost every person alive would find it hard to knock back being paid more for doing the same job. Nothing new under the sun....
 
Woodsie said:
Yes, what you say is true .. but as much as Flannigan's dignity was hurt ... he was never in danger of having his contract forcefully broken ... coach's, CEO's trainers, accountants and all manner of employee's in all industries are paid out of contracts or moved sideways if their performance is no longer up to scratch or their employers are "moving" in a different direction ... it is a common and normal part of human resources and commercial transaction ...

It still remains different from a player, by his actions, forcing a club to let him "break" his contract .



Ado Carr asked and was given permission to negotiate with other clubs ... to my knowledge there was no demand to be released or attempt to force a contract to be broken ..

AFB to my knowledge also asked to be released and there was no mention of a demand or attempt to force a contract to be broken ...
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Technically in regards to Ado Carr you are right. The storm technically said no., thus the current situation. I.e. Addo Carr asks for permission to negotiate with other clubs ( aka permission to break contract) Storm say well yes provided it is worth while to us knowing that it will be an unlikely event. Addo Carr ends up apparently staying next year but with the benefit of a out of contract pay rise ( most likely the main objective) I still don’t see this as an example of probity by either the clubs or player ( players manager). Tigers hoping to benefit from Addo Carr being able to break his contract. This is not probity. If the tigers are so morally precious about integrity they would refuse to negotiate with players trying to break their contract ( unless it was really for genuine personal reasons) not just get precious about it when it is not in alignment with their objectives.
In regards to AFB i strongly suspect he was better coached by his manager ( in comparison to Aloiai) on how to ask for his release ( break his contract) knowing that the warriors were waiting the wings) the speed in which their offer and subsequent deal was done is testament to this. It would be naive to believe IMO that warriors were not in on this.
 
Kevinward777 said:
A mate of mine recently gave his employer four weeks notice that he was taking up a similar position with a competitor. The reason he decided to jump ship-they offered him an annual package which was 30k more than what he was presently on.

His employer let him go immediately to take up the position with their competitor.
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Are you mates with AFB?
 
Red Pill said:
Technically in regards to Ado Carr you are right. The storm technically said no., thus the current situation. I.e. Addo Carr asks for permission to negotiate with other clubs ( aka permission to break contract) Storm say well yes provided it is worth while to us knowing that it will be an unlikely event. Addo Carr ends up apparently staying next year but with the benefit of a out of contract pay rise ( most likely the main objective) I still don’t see this as an example of probity by either the clubs or player ( players manager). Tigers hoping to benefit from Addo Carr being able to break his contract. This is not probity. If the tigers are so morally precious about integrity they would refuse to negotiate with players trying to break their contract ( unless it was really for genuine personal reasons) not just get precious about it when it is not in alignment with their objectives.
In regards to AFB i strongly suspect he was better coached by his manager ( in comparison to Aloiai) on how to ask for his release ( break his contract) knowing that the warriors were waiting the wings) the speed in which their offer and subsequent deal was done is testament to this. It would be naive to believe IMO that warriors were not in on this.
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If both parties agree to a move ... it is a commercial transaction .. not a breaking of a contract, and in both JAC and AFB's cases this appears to be the case .. (Whether in AFB's case it may have escalated is unknown) .. but certainly both parties appear to be happy with the result ..

I maintain ... that unlike the current Aloiai situation ... where the club doesn't want him to leave .. neither party threatened to behave in a manner that made the situation untenable for the club and force them to allow them to break their contracts ..
s
 
Woodsie said:
If both parties agree to a move ... it is a commercial transaction .. not a breaking of a contract, and in both JAC and AFB's cases this appears to be the case .. (Whether in AFB's case it may have escalated is unknown) .. but certainly both parties appear to be happy with the result ..

I maintain ... that unlike the current Aloiai situation ... where the club doesn't want him to leave .. neither party threatened to behave in a manner that made the situation untenable for the club and force them to allow them to break their contracts ..
s
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Hey good chatting with you. My points have been specifically about probity ( ethics, governance and principals leading up to the commercial transactions you are referring too). I suspect Manly agreed to release AFB their best! forward to avoid the likelihood of such an event ( a untenable ugly situation ) Imagine if Manly knocked back his request? Imagine the nonsense that would likely occur especially across social media. The threat of a ugly and untenable situation is why clubs in the past have agreed to release players. Dessie himself has first hand experience in this area. He wanted to break his 2012 contract with Manly and found a way to make it happen no doubt with his new clubs backing ( headed by Greenturd)
 
Red Pill said:
Hey good chatting with you. My points have been specifically about probity ( ethics, governance and principals leading up to the commercial transactions you are referring too). I suspect Manly agreed to release AFB their best! forward to avoid the likelihood of such an event ( a untenable ugly situation ) Imagine if Manly knocked back his request? Imagine the nonsense that would likely occur especially across social media. The threat of a ugly and untenable situation is why clubs in the past have agreed to release players. Dessie himself has first hand experience in this area. He wanted to break his 2012 contract with Manly and found a way to make it happen no doubt with his new clubs backing ( headed by Greenturd)
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Cheers ... I guess my over-riding point is that when a club wants to move a player on ... the player, apart from his ego, is still guaranteed that his entitlements will be honoured ... but when a player "forces" a move, the club is in a practical sense left aggrieved .. they lose a player they didn't want to lose, they have in all probability lost the opportunity to plan and sign a suitable replacement, their salary cap situation may be disadvantaged.

One of the profound effects this new world order is having though ... is it is removing the influence any good administrators and recruitment personel can have .. They spot a young talent, sign him for a figure the player is rapt to get, say $300k, for 3 years, .. parents and everybody says thank you, great job done for the club ... only to have same player a year later throw a hissy fit and demand a release to get $500k elsewhere ... all good management down the drain ... and a big step backwards as far as their playing roster is concerned ..

Poor old Arko would be reduced to being just another wood=duck under the current culture ...
 
Woodsie said:
Cheers ... I guess my over-riding point is that when a club wants to move a player on ... the player, apart from his ego, is still guaranteed that his entitlements will be honoured ... but when a player "forces" a move, the club is in a practical sense left aggrieved .. they lose a player they didn't want to lose, they have in all probability lost the opportunity to plan and sign a suitable replacement, their salary cap situation may be disadvantaged.

One of the profound effects this new world order is having though ... is it is removing the influence any good administrators and recruitment personel can have .. They spot a young talent, sign him for a figure the player is rapt to get, say $300k, for 3 years, .. parents and everybody says thank you, great job done for the club ... only to have same player a year later throw a hissy fit and demand a release to get $500k elsewhere ... all good management down the drain ... and a big step backwards as far as their playing roster is concerned ..

Poor old Arko would be reduced to being just another wood=duck under the current culture ...
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We used to have the June 30 deadline - couldn''t sign with another club for the following season until then.
The main argument for moving that date forward was to enable players more time to relocate interstate if they needed too.
Kind of strange really when the sport is only played in three states all on the eastern seaboard with the same time zone.
Players seem to be able to pack up and move within weeks these days when it suits them.
I can't remember players agitating for a release from the last six months of the contract - "...well I've signed for next year but they want me now..."

It's now a well worn tactic when Nov 1 rolls around - "hey, we've signed you for the years after next but what do reckon about coming across now, your current club won't want you there if you're leaving anyway?"

Surely if they took it back to June 30 to be able to sign elsewhere then this sort of shenanigans wouldn't happen.
 
Even with a draft and salary cap in AFL , does not seem to offer a much different situation there in terms of club - player agitating for a release . Look at Collingwood with some of their contracted players that the club has moved on recently . Manly did insist the Steve Matai see out his contract when he received overtures and much more money from the Warriors some seasons ago . Did receive a reasonable upgrade from Manly for his remaining contract years but still short of the Warriors offer . Seems more prevalent now and no doubt player manages intentionally trying to flout the guidelines . Really can not blame a player in most instances to try and get a better remuneration and if his form warrants it but also of course a two way street if a club has a wish to act in their interests Ethics are another matter . This is a professional sport in essence . AFB was upgraded to almost the Warriors proposition and Manly could have pressed him to stay but then the other considerations come into play in the for and against issue of the benefit of retaining him and other similar instances are definitely not unusual now in club land .
 
Kevinward777 said:
A mate of mine recently gave his employer four weeks notice that he was taking up a similar position with a competitor. The reason he decided to jump ship-they offered him an annual package which was 30k more than what he was presently on.

His employer let him go immediately to take up the position with their competitor.
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Sounds to me like your mate may be B S ing you.

just sayin
 
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