Harper's been so bad he needs to go

Reserve Grader
Someone photoshop this please. Manly Vice:
2d2b5ee9d07e34dca28f33d3e1b23a1d9184f947.jpeg.jpg
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
I get w

I get what you're saying but if you look back through the premiership winning teams of the past decade you won't find many/any ptemiers that had 2 defensive centres. The game has changed and the posithas changed but having that X factor is still important.
If someone has time, id love to see the premiership centre pairings over the past decade
@The better Robbo
2020 - Olam / Lee - 1 try Olam
2019 - Mitchell / Manu
2018 - Mitchell / Manu 1 try each
2017 - Chambers / Scott 1 try Scott
2016 - Bird / Leutele
2015 - O'Neill / Linnett 1 try O'Neill
2014 - Walker / Auva'a 1 try Auva'a
2013 - Jennings / Kenny-Dowall 1 try each also Matai/Lyon 1 try each
2012 - Nielsen / Chambers
2011 - Matai / Lyon

I take your point that there aren't m/any defensive centres in that lot but none of them were player of the match - would need to go back through your memory to gauge how their performances with the ball contributed to their teams' wins.
But they are all pretty handy centre pairings nonetheless.

Also didn't look at how many missed tackles said players had.

The game has changed significantly in the past 12 months as we showed this year with both our wingers and fullback scoring over 20 tries each so centres that do their job are what we have.

I've seen with Suli that football smarts isn't his strong suit and Souffs would be looking at the video of Campbell Graham's defensive reads and be thinking...."if only.."
 
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The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
The game has changed significantly in the past 12 months as we showed this year with both our wingers and fullback scoring over 20 tries each so centres that do their job are what we have.
Perspective time

Official NRL stats

Parker 2021 try assists ONE

Harper 2021 try assists FIVE

The moral of the story ...
Our wingers scored 20 tries each thanks to Tom
Because when Tom does not fire Manlys backs fire blanks
 
Member
Perspective time

Official NRL stats

Parker 2021 try assists ONE

Harper 2021 try assists FIVE

The moral of the story ...
Our wingers scored 20 tries each thanks to Tom
Because when Tom does not fire Manlys backs fire blanks
In the last two (and most important) games of the season Harper was the weakest link in the Manly team. Just was not up to 1st grade standard. Perhaps he was playing with an injury? he certainly appeared to have lost his speed. But if he carries that type of performance into 2022, then he will have to be dropped.
 
Member
May have been just a combination of losing a bit of confidence and a slight injury concern for Morgan , Certainly does not lack dedication , not too sure if the comparisons with Skivvy Matai is all that relevant , he did develop into a truly block busting centre type , be surprised if Harper can emulate that trait , Good positional centre and reasonably elusive when he is on his game , usually vigorous defence [ well at least against the less rated sides ] good combination occasionally with Saab . Still think that Manly need at least one strike centre to go to the next level and really challenge for a title . Koula seems the real hope assuming Suli is definitely leaving . Just have to wait and see , an area that does really need some improvement to match the big gun sides '
I hope that Koula gets a decent chance next year. If not, he may well be lost to the club.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Perspective time

Official NRL stats

Parker 2021 try assists ONE

Harper 2021 try assists FIVE

The moral of the story ...
Our wingers scored 20 tries each thanks to Tom
Because when Tom does not fire Manlys backs fire blanks
And they would have scored another crucial one in the Prelim but everyone's favourite centre couldn't run a decent line.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Perspective time

Official NRL stats

Parker 2021 try assists ONE

Harper 2021 try assists FIVE

The moral of the story ...
Our wingers scored 20 tries each thanks to Tom
Because when Tom does not fire Manlys backs fire blanks
@BOZO

Can you please go through the centre pairings l listed above and find their try assist stats please.
If you’re going to quote isolated stats they don’t mean a whole lot if there’s nothing to compare them too.
 
Sea Eagle Lach
Staff member
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
I hope that Koula gets a decent chance next year. If not, he may well be lost to the club.
A recurring theme in the last couple of years, the various talented kids coming through may well up and leave if not given a decent chance. Always a possibility. The other side of the coin is that if he doesn't learn the various lessons about earning your spot in a team game, respecting your coaches and mentors etc those kids may never really make it anyway.

Hoppa Jnr is the only one I can think of who was lost to the club in recent times, Manly may even have withdrawn their offer in the end. He wasn't quite ready and anyhow he's still waiting for his decent chance after a full season at Canberra.

As for Koula, he hasn't played much in the last 2 years due to the pandemic. I've no doubt he figures somewhere in Des's planning and if he gets his NRL debut it will be exciting to see.
 
Reserve Grader
I think our centres compliment the players around them,Parker is a good defender hole runner type which suits playing next to Foz and Shu , Harper is a all-rounder good defence can ballplay,run lines has helped Saab alot , They both take the hard hit ups, Harper had a shocker against Storm but was good for his first year in grade
 
It's only a game ....
Can you please go through the centre pairings l listed above and find their try assist stats please.
Try assists by centres have been sparse in the NRL this year - only three centres placed in the top 50!

2021 Try Assists
  • 19th Gagai 14 TA
  • 24th Burton 13 TA
  • 34th Olam 10 TA
Crichton is ranked 50th with 8 TA, but played multiple positions.

Most try assists were by fullbacks, halves & dummy halves.

Schuster, 41st with 9 TA, is the only non dummy half forward in the top 50.

To compare try assists by centres from all clubs, see Fox Sports Premiership Stats
 
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First Grader
Premium Member
Try assists by centres have been sparse in the NRL this year - only three centres placed in the top 50!

2021 Try Assists
  • 19th Gagai 14 TA
  • 24th Burton 13 TA
  • 34th Olam 10 TA
Crichton is ranked 50th with 8 TA, but played multiple positions.

Most try assists were by fullbacks, halves & dummy halves.

Schuster, 41st with 9 TA, is the only non dummy half forward in the top 50.

To compare try assists by centres from all clubs, see Fox Sports Premiership Stats
In the modern game there are far more variables in scoring tries, the 9's are throwing those close range crash balls against defence on their tryline spiking their ratio and the conventional backline spread....with a centre beating, or getting outside his opposite ala Lyon/Gidley style to put his winger away, is not as common.
The main attacking weapon is a shift either side and the centre used as a decoy, with the fullback adding the extra 2nd man from the back and more often throwing that final pass.....which show on these stats.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Try assists by centres have been sparse in the NRL this year - only three centres placed in the top 50!

2021 Try Assists
  • 19th Gagai 14 TA
  • 24th Burton 13 TA
  • 34th Olam 10 TA
Crichton is ranked 50th with 8 TA, but played multiple positions.

Most try assists were by fullbacks, halves & dummy halves.

Schuster, 41st with 9 TA, is the only non dummy half forward in the top 50.

To compare try assists by centres from all clubs, see Fox Sports Premiership Stats
Thanks @40 nil but was hoping @BOZO would come back with this info as he was the one that pointed the finger at our centres' lack of try assists.
Interesting that those three are from the top 3 teams and the wingers outside them are Johnson, To'o and Addo-Carr.
 
It's only a game ....
Thanks @40 nil but was hoping @BOZO would come back with this info as he was the one that pointed the finger at our centres' lack of try assists.
Interesting that those three are from the top 3 teams and the wingers outside them are Johnson, To'o and Addo-Carr.
Sorry about that @StuBoot. Sometimes, I am just interested to research questions for my own edification. I also noted that the three top try assist centres are from the top three teams, plus as you pointed out, all have gun finishers outside them.

Other points of interest: The Storm are the only team with all of their spine (including their two dummy halves) featuring in the top 50 try assists. The combined total of Turbo + DCE's try assists is 55 - more than any three players from other teams.

I am a Walker supporter & believe if he plays a full season at right centre his try scoring & try assists would easily surpass the current right centre.
 
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Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Sorry about that @StuBoot. Sometimes, I am just interested to research questions for my own edification. I also noted that the three top try assist centres are from the top three teams, plus as you pointed out, all have gun finishers outside them.

Other points of interest: The Storm are the only team with all of their spine (including their two dummy halves) featuring in the top 50 try assists. The combined total of Turbo + DCE's try assists is 55 - more than any three players from other teams.

I am Walker supporter & believe if he plays a full season at right centre his try scoring & try assists would easily surpass the current right centre.
No probs @40 nil, as you've probably noticed I'm interested in that stuff too.
So with the Storm having all of their spine featuring highly in the try assist department is a lesson in itself and gives us an insight into why they've been at the top of the tree for so long.

I do find the "try assist" stat somewhat misleading on it's own, just because you happened to throw the final pass shouldn't necessarily be a stat that determines your worth.

You've probably seen me raise the old errors stat - unforced v forced.
As a sport we could delve so much deeper into our basic stats -
  • Try assists from kicks
  • Try assists from tackle busts
  • Try assists from line breaks
etc
would really give an insight into who does what.

You're probably right in that Walker is a better centre than Harper in attack but I'd say #14 is where Des sees him unless one of our centres goes down long term.
 
Reserve Grader
Halves throw passes and kicks for wingers. That's how roughly a third of all tries are scored. Cody Walker made a career out of catout passing to Alex Johnstone and the footy world cream their jeans ...
 
It's only a game ....
I do find the "try assist" stat somewhat misleading on it's own, just because you happened to throw the final pass shouldn't necessarily be a stat that determines your worth.
I agree. It is not always the final pass that is the try assist. It may be the penultimate pass or an earlier pass or tackle bust etc. Try assist designation probably requires more subjective assessment.

Also, kicks shouldn't really be designated as try assists unless they are well placed & well weighted. Sometimes poor kicks result in tries, e.g. Haumole tapped back a kick over the dead ball line for Jake to score in the recent Cowboys game. I don't know who got the try assist, but it should have been Haumole, not the kicker (DCE?).
 

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