Harper's been so bad he needs to go

The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Try assists by centres have been sparse in the NRL this year - only three centres placed in the top 50!

2021 Try Assists
  • 19th Gagai 14 TA
  • 24th Burton 13 TA
  • 34th Olam 10 TA
Crichton is ranked 50th with 8 TA, but played multiple positions.

Most try assists were by fullbacks, halves & dummy halves.

Schuster, 41st with 9 TA, is the only non dummy half forward in the top 50.

To compare try assists by centres from all clubs, see Fox Sports Premiership Stats
Thanks for those stats @40 nil
There is our proof
Those top centre TAs s came from the top teams.
In order to compete with the best teams we need to compete with them in every position including the centre position .
It was clearly evident Our centres in the Finals and against the top finals contenders were dormant .
 
Last edited:
Reserve Grader
I agree. It is not always the final pass that is the try assist. It may be the penultimate pass or an earlier pass or tackle bust etc. Try assist designation probably requires more subjective assessment.

Also, kicks shouldn't really be designated as try assists unless they are well placed & well weighted. Sometimes poor kicks result in tries, e.g. Haumole tapped back a kick over the dead ball line for Jake to score in the recent Cowboys game. I don't know who got the try assist, but it should have been Haumole, not the kicker (DCE?).
Mole got that try assist I believe… I only know because he was in my SuperCoach team!

Speaking of SuperCoach, I find the assignment of try assists to be quite inconsistent. Sometimes they give it to the player (Schu for example) who dips into the line and draws in defenders to create space on the edge. But then other times they’ll give it to the player who loops behind on the same play and gives the last pass. The statisticians appear to have favourite players who end up getting the assist on a 50-50 call.
 
It's only a game ....
Speaking of SuperCoach, I find the assignment of try assists to be quite inconsistent. Sometimes they give it to the player (Schu for example) who dips into the line and draws in defenders to create space on the edge. But then other times they’ll give it to the player who loops behind on the same play and gives the last pass. The statisticians appear to have favourite players who end up getting the assist on a 50-50 call.
Maybe it would be a fairer to split one point when the try assist play is not definitive?
 
Reserve Grader
Hey Robbo just out of interested who would your top five centres be? Manu, Olam and ... ?? Just interested. I have been wondering what makes a good centre and really think it's all about defence. Could be wrong!
 
Hey Robbo just out of interested who would your top five centres be? Manu, Olam and ... ?? Just interested. I have been wondering what makes a good centre and really think it's all about defence. Could be wrong!
Definitely Manu and Olam. Chricton from Panthers is in my top 5 although he was moved to accommodate Burton who is also in my top list. Staggs when fit. I've probably forgotten someone.
I'd take an attacking centre that is a competent defender over a straight up defensive centre every day of the week.
 
Reserve Grader
I think he is a real keeper. We were only watching him play reserves at Blacktown earlier this year before the place locked down so a big move for him into NRL and then into semi finals....same year. I thought he did extremely well given the meteoric rise. Actually reminds very much of Steve Matai when he first came on the scene. Great defender but I remember at the time everyone was concerned about his speed. He turned out ok....as will this kid.
A good pre-season and maybe a bit of bulk up a bit, Lionel will be rearing to go
 
Reserve Grader
Definitely Manu and Olam. Chricton from Panthers is in my top 5 although he was moved to accommodate Burton who is also in my top list. Staggs when fit. I've probably forgotten someone.
I'd take an attacking centre that is a competent defender over a straight up defensive centre every day of the week.
Thanks for your feedback, I think that is a top list and great criteria.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Definitely Manu and Olam. Chricton from Panthers is in my top 5 although he was moved to accommodate Burton who is also in my top list. Staggs when fit. I've probably forgotten someone.
I'd take an attacking centre that is a competent defender over a straight up defensive centre every day of the week.
Looking at the stats for tackles made v tackles missed makes interesting reading for the top 5 teams
ie Tackles made divided by tackles missed ( someone else can work out percentages ) I think I interpreted it right.

Olam - misses one every 4.58 tackles ( ie 229 tackles / 50 missed )
Manu - 4.9
Burton - 5.8
Gagai - 5.8
Harper - 6.8
Parker - 7.6
Graham - 8.2
J Moz - 11.4
Reimis Smith - 11.4

There were other centres like Staggs that didn't play enough games to get a decent sample and others that floated between the backrow and centre.

So Olam and Manu are the two worst defensive centres on that list.

Who would've thought Reimis Smith is as defensively sound as J Moz?
But that's stats for you.

What this doesn't show is defensive misreads ( like Campbell in the GF ) or how important those missed tackles were ( like Harper v Souffs )

Stats are just numbers that we can use which ever way it suits.

Errors were interesting too - J Moz 13, Smith and Graham 16 v Gagai, Burton 26 and Harper 25
Penalties conceded - Graham 1, Parker 4 v Olam 10 and Burton 12
Most tackles - Graham 369, Harper 366, Smith 365 ( were they targetted/perceived as a weak link ? )
Least tackles - J Moz 247, Parker 251 ( are they regarded as good defenders so copped less traffic ? )

Not into Supercoach but who were the top two centres for the year?

Looking at Reimis Smith it's another Storm Moneyball win despite ONLY 2 try assists.

Note: FoxSports stats used
 
Last edited:
Looking at the stats for tackles made v tackles missed makes interesting reading for the top 5 teams
ie Tackles made divided by tackles missed ( someone else can work out percentages ) I think I interpreted it right.

Olam - misses one every 4.58 tackles ( ie 229 tackles / 50 missed )
Reimis Smith - 11.4
Burton - 5.8
Gagai - 5.8
Graham - 8.2
Parker - 7.6
Harper - 6.8
Manu - 4.9
J Moz - 11.4

There were other centres like Staggs that didn't play enough games to get a decent sample and others that floated between the backrow and centre.

So Olam and Manu are the two worst defensive centres on that list.

Who would've thought Reimis Smith is as defensively sound as J Moz?
But that's stats for you.

What this doesn't show is defensive misreads ( like Campbell in the GF ) or how important those missed tackles were ( like Harper v Souffs )

Stats are just numbers that we can use which ever way it suits.

Errors were interesting too - J Moz 13, Smith and Graham 16 v Gagai, Burton 26 and Harper 25
Penalties conceded - Graham 1, Parker 4 v Olam 10 and Burton 12
Most tackles - Graham 369, Harper 366, Smith 365 ( were they targetted/perceived as a weak link ? )
Least tackles - J Moz 247, Parker 251 ( are they regarded as good defenders so copped less traffic ? )

Not into Supercoach but who were the top two centres for the year?

Looking at Reimis Smith it's another Storm Moneyball win despite ONLY 2 try assists.

Note: FoxSports stats used
Yeah missed tackles are a misleading stat. The Campbell Graham in the GF is a perfect example, that wouldn't count as a missed tackle even though it potentially cost them the premiership. What that does show is that a lot of the top teams actually don't have the best defensive centres.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Yeah missed tackles are a misleading stat. The Campbell Graham in the GF is a perfect example, that wouldn't count as a missed tackle even though it potentially cost them the premiership. What that does show is that a lot of the top teams actually don't have the best defensive centres.

Yep, it aint a missed tackle if you don't get a hand on 'em!
 
It's only a game ....
Despite Morgan losing his defensive mojo at the backend of the season, he topped the NRL's one on one tackle count.

Harper.jpg
 
KT 623
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Despite Morgan losing his defensive mojo at the backend of the season, he topped the NRL's one on one tackle count.

View attachment 19558
That’s a great stat, considering his first year in grade, and how hard it is to pull off one-on-ones playing centre. I agree with others that a full pre-season, and the right conditioning will get him thru the season (barring injuries of course).
And am hoping he continues his good connection with Saab.
 

rmd

Reserve Grader
Premium Member
We only have Stats the NRL provides or Fox provides.

There are so many variables to be able to measure a players performance now and Fox and NRL only provide a minuscule of the data and they are those we or they can see.

I am sure Des (The Mad Professor) has many more stats he uses to evaluate a player’s performance.

For example, each player wears a monitor of their heart rate and I don’t know what else it measures, probably distance travelled, blood pressure, maybe oxygen, along with other stuff.

I am not a doctor however my personal trainer claims that a heart rate over 200 can only be maintained for a short time and quickly leads to fatigue. I don’t know his qualifications, however, it sounds good from my experience training with him, because if I get to over 180 for 10 consistent minutes, I’m stuffed. But I’m 63.

He claims that over 200 bpm for a long period of time (15 minutes or more) leads to massive fatigue, which impacts on reactive sense, dexterity and mental awareness. It sounds reasonable to me however, it could be BS.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
We only have Stats the NRL provides or Fox provides.

There are so many variables to be able to measure a players performance now and Fox and NRL only provide a minuscule of the data and they are those we or they can see.

I am sure Des (The Mad Professor) has many more stats he uses to evaluate a player’s performance.

For example, each player wears a monitor of their heart rate and I don’t know what else it measures, probably distance travelled, blood pressure, maybe oxygen, along with other stuff.

I am not a doctor however my personal trainer claims that a heart rate over 200 can only be maintained for a short time and quickly leads to fatigue. I don’t know his qualifications, however, it sounds good from my experience training with him, because if I get to over 180 for 10 consistent minutes, I’m stuffed. But I’m 63.

He claims that over 200 bpm for a long period of time (15 minutes or more) leads to massive fatigue, which impacts on reactive sense, dexterity and mental awareness. It sounds reasonable to me however, it could be BS.
I think maximum attainable heart rate is around 220, less your age, so for a sixty year old it should be around 160, that's not to say you can't go above 160, some very fit guys that age can, it's the length of recovery back to normal that's more important.
 
First Grader
I think maximum attainable heart rate is around 220, less your age, so for a sixty year old it should be around 160, that's not to say you can't go above 160, some very fit guys that age can, it's the length of recovery back to normal that's more important.
We need nrl physio to advise.
 
The poster formerly known as Simmo66.
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Despite Morgan losing his defensive mojo at the backend of the season, he topped the NRL's one on one tackle count.

View attachment 19558
No doubt that Morgan was playing busted in the last six weeks of the season. Also no doubt that it has come from his defensive efforts in the first twenty rounds. I don't understand why he wasn't rested between round twenty and the finals, when he was so obviously playing busted. Yes it was extremely courageous, but it was also completely stupid.
 
Sea Eagle Lach
Staff member
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
I am sure Des (The Mad Professor) has many more stats he uses to evaluate a player’s performance.
@flying sea eagle posted an article in the Nutty Professor thread about Des's assistant, Ramy Haidar (whose official title is “innovation consultant”, although Haidar prefers “synthesist.“)
"If Hasler is a demon for numbers, trawling through statistics in the early hours, Haidar is even more fixated."
 

Latest posts

Team P W L PD Pts
24 21 3 499 44
24 21 3 390 44
24 20 4 322 42
24 16 8 252 34
24 16 8 141 34
24 15 9 109 32
24 12 12 -143 26
24 10 14 -3 22
24 10 14 -36 22
24 10 14 -97 22
24 8 16 -142 18
24 8 16 -171 18
24 8 16 -214 18
24 7 17 -249 16
24 7 17 -288 16
24 3 21 -370 8
Top Bottom