Garricks metres gained

[rifraff]

In that sense, does Reubs running into the defensive line make him any different to say ... Stuart Davis and David Ronson? They got ragdolled a lot, and IIRC both won a premiership on the wings with Manly.

Of course it does. Different eras, different roles. Are you trying to compare wingers from 30 years ago to what they are now?

 

[Mataiforever]

The Bug was getting smashed back in the juniors for the Kingfishers but he still scored 2 or 3 tries a game. His worth was undoubted all through his career, as should our current low-cost/high-value FG wingers today be.
It's a matter of perspective...do we want low cost forwards, FB and halves who don't win us field position?

We are not, and cannot be a a big money squad. We need to maximise our money and do it the hard way. No choice.

Its not like we can’t buy a good winger for 250k-350k though... Farnworth or the other names thrown up aren’t that expensive - we aren’t asking for a Ken Maumalo or Maika Sivo.

Our squad will always battle the cap compared to the rorters, because of this I think we need to optimise quality in our starting 17 and then rely on youth more for injury cover. Blokes like Boyle, Croker, Waddell don’t add much and I would let them go to sign one good young winger and maybe one good young second rower (Farnworth, Stone would be about 500k).

With4 great props in AFB-Taupau-Keppie-Paseka don’t need a Boyle for 200k... Sipley is a great backup and have youngsters coming through in Titmuss, Saddler, Fainu & Olakau’atu. Let these boys be injury cover and try up our quality on the wing. At the moment with our middle depth these guys won’t see a game all season which is just a waste when we could get rid of a few average more expensive blokes and put the coin to the edge.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Completely agree. I appreciate Jorges tough carries but he also costs us at least a try a game.. in finals time that will punish us against good opposition, especially good playmakers who target poor wingers like Cleary, Keary, Reynolds etc. which could make it as much as 2-3 tries a game down his edge.

Reubs never has an error leading to a try and is always good under high ball. In open space he is quick but not like he has had any opportunities of late

Errors for Manly this year

DCE 12
Jorge 12
Turbo 12
Garrick 11
Hank 10

You'll also be interested to know that Garrick tops the list with 8 "try causes" according to the Fox Sports NRL stats. Horhay has 5 and pretty much all the other backs, Turbo, Suli, Parker, Elliot, DCE and Funa have 4. Sandwich also tops the "line break cause" stats as well with 10. Suli is second on 6 so it's clear our right side has some issues. Horhay has 4 line break causes along with a host of others.

Best definition of linebreak cause I could find is

To determine a line break causes, several reasons are determined with more than one player identified for causing the break.

• Missed tackle – Defensive player(s) have missed or fallen off a tackle that led to a break
• Offload – Ball carrier could offload in the tackle, causing the ineffective tackle to lead to a break
• Poor Read – Defensive player misread the play or was caught in two minds
• Lazy – Defensive player(s) could have done more to prevent a break. Not enough effort

Edit - another quick one ...Missed tackles - Garrick 16, Taufua 9

So it's a funny thing perception vs reality.

Everyone knows Horhay can be suspect under the high ball, but Feldt is one of the best in the business and has embarrassed better wingers than Jorge. He's not perfect we all know that, but for me his finishing and grunt work out of our end keep him on the positive side of the ledger and in the 17.

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[maxta]

Errors for Manly this year

DCE 12
Jorge 12
Turbo 12
Garrick 11
Hank 10

You'll also be interested to know that Garrick tops the list with 8 "try causes" according to the Fox Sports NRL stats. Horhay has 5 and pretty much all the other backs, Turbo, Suli, Parker, Elliot, DCE and Funa have 4. Sandwich also tops the "line break cause" stats as well with 10. Suli is second on 6 so it's clear our right side has some issues. Horhay has 4 line break causes along with a host of others.

Best definition of linebreak cause I could find is

To determine a line break causes, several reasons are determined with more than one player identified for causing the break.

• Missed tackle – Defensive player(s) have missed or fallen off a tackle that led to a break
• Offload – Ball carrier could offload in the tackle, causing the ineffective tackle to lead to a break
• Poor Read – Defensive player misread the play or was caught in two minds
• Lazy – Defensive player(s) could have done more to prevent a break. Not enough effort

Edit - another quick one ...Missed tackles - Garrick 16, Taufua 9

So it's a funny thing perception vs reality.

Everyone knows Horhay can be suspect under the high ball, but Feldt is one of the best in the business and has embarrassed better wingers than Jorge. He's not perfect we all know that, but for me his finishing and grunt work out of our end keep him on the positive side of the ledger and in the 17.

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

Iv'e heard it all now "Try causes"....I get some stats are good to read...tackles, assists, tries...but causes, this is getting pretty deep

 

[Damien2812]

Garrick needs to put more size on but he is very good under the high ball and finishes great.

 

[BOZO]

Garrick needs to put more size on but he is very good under the high ball and finishes great.

Calves blood injections

 

[Damien2812]

Calves blood injections

No Stephen Dank this time around.. lol

 

[Chip and Chase]

Iv'e heard it all now "Try causes"....I get some stats are good to read...tackles, assists, tries...but causes, this is getting pretty deep

It is getting more like baseball with the amount of stats. Des loves them though from all reports.

I guess if you are going to have attacking stats like try assists and line break assists, then there is nothing wrong with quantifying the defensive equivalent. They are all subjective to some degree of course, but it gives you a relative idea of where our opposition find success.

I just found it interesting that for some there is this perception that Jorge is a walking liability that leaks points and loses us games. That's not supported by some of these stats. In fairness to Garrick and Suli right side defences probably get attacked on average more often because the right to left dominant passing game of most sides sees them go to their left wing as a preference. Although if you look at some of the heat maps for linebreaks and tries there are sides like Melbourne and Roosters that are just as dominant, if not moreso, with their right side attack.

 

[BOZO]

It is getting more like baseball with the amount of stats. Des loves them though from all reports.

I guess if you are going to have attacking stats like try assists and line break assists, then there is nothing wrong with quantifying the defensive equivalent. They are all subjective to some degree of course, but it gives you a relative idea of where our opposition find success.

I just found it interesting that for some there is this perception that Jorge is a walking liability that leaks points and loses us games. That's not supported by some of these stats. In fairness to Garrick and Suli right side defences probably get attacked on average more often because the right to left dominant passing game of most sides sees them go to their left wing as a preference. Although if you look at some of the heat maps for linebreaks and tries there are sides like Melbourne and Roosters that are just as dominant, if not moreso, with their right side attack.

Every Tatt and every Stat tells a story . I am all for them

 

[TWO DOGS]

Would be like fuking a newspaper.

 

[maxta]

Every Tatt and every Stat tells a story . I am all for them
View attachment 14947

Dont mind the odd 1 here and there but she is the art teacher and the kids forgot their art books....

 

[Chip and Chase]

You know another player who got ragdolled when running into the defence, especially in his early years? Snake. Not that I'm saying he's as good as or will be as good as Snake was, I'm just pointing out that even Brett Stewart got ragdolled by the defence at times too. Edit: and at least when Reubs gets tackled we don't cringe so much like we did with Snake post 2009. Whenever he'd get tackled we'd pray like hell that he didn't get up limping.

Even Tommy has the "lay down Sally" going on this season. Not interested in running back many kick returns with interest. I suppose he is gun shy after a bad run with injuries

I guess we were spoilt when we had Matai and Taufua smashing out hitups every week out of our end. Throw Wolfie in there on the other side and it was like we could comfortably get most sets off on the right foot and the forwards got a breather.

 

[Mataiforever]

Errors for Manly this year

DCE 12
Jorge 12
Turbo 12
Garrick 11
Hank 10

You'll also be interested to know that Garrick tops the list with 8 "try causes" according to the Fox Sports NRL stats. Horhay has 5 and pretty much all the other backs, Turbo, Suli, Parker, Elliot, DCE and Funa have 4. Sandwich also tops the "line break cause" stats as well with 10. Suli is second on 6 so it's clear our right side has some issues. Horhay has 4 line break causes along with a host of others.

Best definition of linebreak cause I could find is

To determine a line break causes, several reasons are determined with more than one player identified for causing the break.

• Missed tackle – Defensive player(s) have missed or fallen off a tackle that led to a break
• Offload – Ball carrier could offload in the tackle, causing the ineffective tackle to lead to a break
• Poor Read – Defensive player misread the play or was caught in two minds
• Lazy – Defensive player(s) could have done more to prevent a break. Not enough effort

Edit - another quick one ...Missed tackles - Garrick 16, Taufua 9

So it's a funny thing perception vs reality.

Everyone knows Horhay can be suspect under the high ball, but Feldt is one of the best in the business and has embarrassed better wingers than Jorge. He's not perfect we all know that, but for me his finishing and grunt work out of our end keep him on the positive side of the ledger and in the 17.

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

Interesting. I would like to know what these “try causes” exactly are cos cant remember too many tries down Garricks wing... he doesn’t get singled out like Taufua.

Not sure about these stats, Taufua had 3 try causes vs Melbourne alone and another one v cows last night... any half decent halfback and winger combo will score off Taufua as we have seen way too many times to count... think finals last year? I think he conceded a try or two a game every finals match last year... got dusted against the bunnies i think it was. So too did Elliott... it exposed our weak links and will happen again and again until they get replaced... every called for their head at the end of last year.

This is also with Peter Parker inside him who is one of the best defensive centres in the comp... Garrick doesn’t have that on his inside with Suli.

Was Katoa on Taufua’s side when sharks did a number on us? Can’t remember.

 

[40 years an eagle]

Was Katoa on Taufua’s side when sharks did a number on us? Can’t remember.

No, Garrick's. 2 of the tries you didn't remember. Ho hum.

 

[Mataiforever]

No, Garrick's. 2 of the tries you didn't remember. Ho hum.

Not an argument mate just a genuine question...?

 

[manly al]

Probably would not make too much difference whether it was Garrick , Funa or Elliott taking the hit ups from one wing position in terms of meters gained . Garrick , apart from being the i st choice goal kicker still has the all round game to justify his position and is still doing O K with his ruck runs . Managed a fairly vital tackle out wide and towards the end to deny the Cowboys a late try and maybe some of those so called try causes were when he had been at full back this season. Be good if he can get some more ball and get into the open more to show his finishing ability but again would not think that his ruck hit ups lack anything serious so far this season .

 

[Chip and Chase]

Interesting. I would like to know what these “try causes” exactly are cos cant remember too many tries down Garricks wing... he doesn’t get singled out like Taufua.

Not sure about these stats, Taufua had 3 try causes vs Melbourne alone and another one v cows last night... any half decent halfback and winger combo will score off Taufua as we have seen way too many times to count... think finals last year? I think he conceded a try or two a game every finals match last year... got dusted against the bunnies i think it was. So too did Elliott... it exposed our weak links and will happen again and again until they get replaced... every called for their head at the end of last year.

This is also with Peter Parker inside him who is one of the best defensive centres in the comp... Garrick doesn’t have that on his inside with Suli.

Was Katoa on Taufua’s side when sharks did a number on us? Can’t remember.

Not 100% sure what a try cause is but I would guess it's the same as that list for line break causes except it leads to a try.

We've conceded 33 tries but have 50 try causes registered, so obviously "blame" can be apportioned to more than one player.

Katoa plays right wing for Sharks so that's Horhay's side.

Look wingers get a bad rap sometimes because they are the one left holding the baby when the numbers inside them don't go their way. You basically are governed by what your inside defenders do and have to follow suit most times.

Horhay is short by winger standards and does get targeted in the air, that's just a fact we have to live with. The NRL are determined to make it easier to create those situations with their no tackling in the air and the "escort" rule.

 

[Mataiforever]

Not 100% sure what a try cause is but I would guess it's the same as that list for line break causes except it leads to a try.

We've conceded 33 tries but have 50 try causes registered, so obviously "blame" can be apportioned to more than one player.

Katoa plays right wing for Sharks so that's Horhay's side.

Look wingers get a bad rap sometimes because they are the one left holding the baby when the numbers inside them don't go their way. You basically are governed by what your inside defenders do and have to follow suit most times.

Horhay is short by winger standards and does get targeted in the air, that's just a fact we have to live with. The NRL are determined to make it easier to create those situations with their no tackling in the air and the "escort" rule.

Interesting mate cheers for the insight. Thought @40 years an eagle said Katoa was garricks side? Ho hum.

Find it tough to believe Jorge has only 1 try cause beyond Feldt & 3 v storm... definitely noticed more this year.

Just feel our list management could be a bit better... I’m all for Manly legends but there comes a time where you need to do whats best for the team and thats putting a more athletic winger in our side. No point going “thats just what we have to live with (in jorges height and inability in the air)” IMO as there are strong wingers in the air like Saab who are on similar pay packets which I think is the missing piece that could really put us in that Storm Roosters category.

 

[Shnorky]

Garrick needs to put more size on but he is very good under the high ball and finishes great.

He has plenty of size, just don't think he uses it

 

[Damien2812]

He has plenty of size, just don't think he uses it

I agree but needs more leg power.